COH: Europe In Ruins

Currently, piat ambush gives the following bonuses:

+200% accuracy, +50% damage, plus several volleys without decloaking.

You can basically activate it anywhere with cover including in the middle of combat.

I think this ability was needed and fine with the old piats, but with the new piats, which are already effective without ambush, the piat ambush ability is overpowered.   One volley from the new piat in ambush will do 430 damage to an unskirted P4 and 324 damage to a skirted one.   Basically half to 2/3 the health of an axis medium tank.

Perhaps make it a purchased upgrade?   In return the turn while in cloak option could be enabled so the piats don't have to be facing the right direction while in ambush.

Even with the accuracy bonus the shots often miss.  A P4 will come driving by, the Sappers will shoot and both projectiles will simply fly by the tank because it's moving.  I would take any other handheld AT weapon over a Piat (aside from Boys AT rifle) so I'm not convinced they suddenly need nerfing.

Boo with sappers, they come in their rape carriers taking on much more expensive units and when their carrier gets blown up they CLOAK next to its green cover wreck and start raping you all over again.
It needs looking at, piats are being used as mainline AT. Ambush is more than good enough with its damage bonus and cloak, and who the fuck moves their tank to avoid cloaked units? The whole point of cloak is to strike at vulnerable moment, not to give extra volleys of unreturned fire around a bren carrier wreck. It doesnt make sense.

Yes, thats the other aspect thats retarded.

You destroy a bren carrier with piats inside, and the piats cloak right next to the bren carrier wreck and start shooting with 200% more accuracy and 50% more damage.

okay then, how about changing it to the current pak cloak? One shot and thats it.

Oh noez, piats in clown cars. No different than PE Schreks in clown cars or fucking stormtroopers.

piats cloaking when the bren carrier blows up is the allied version of storms getting suppressed by BARs or hmg's and cloaking magically.

Stormtroopers do not fire from inside the axis clown car.  You need a PE halftrack to do that.  PE can clown car with tankbusters but its not nearly as effective as a bren carrier with piats.

Blitz can clown car to a point with stormtroopers, however the halftrack has to stop and the stormtroopers have to get out for them to fire.  Which makes them much more vulnerable.

Oh no? Because my PE clown car can kill infantry also as well as tanks.

Furthermore, I have seen stormtroopers inside an IHT before, which was not my point at all, by the way.


Why the fuck would you clown car stormtroopers. It's called "I AM INVISIBLE AND AM ABLE TO ONESHOT YOUR TANK AT VET 3". It's an instant tank rape squad with no warning whatsoever. It's like PIAT cloak piats, except they can move around and have super nuclear grenades.

I did not even talk about anything you just said.  I was simply responding to someone who said you can clown car with Stormtroopers. 

Do PE have stormtroopers? No.  Does blitz have clown cars that allow the stormtroopers to fire their schreks? No.  Hence blitz Stormtroopers cannot clown car the same as a piat squad in a bren carrier. 

Why do you respond to all my posts in a hostile manner...  Relax

Yo dawg have you hear about this new thing called Reinforcements? It's p. sweet yo.

You gonna spend an assload of PP just so you can clowncar some stormtroopers, that company would probably suck and you would spending mad amounts of pp per game..  I sure as hell am not.  And not everyone has that reinforcement option yet or at all.

Stormtroopers are fine with out the clown car.  Like Male said, they can sneak behind and eat your vet 3s!

I'm just saying PE can get Storms in IHTs  8)

Who the fuck are you? And when have I ever responded to your posts?


I never said that. I said stormtroopers at vet 3 can oneshot a tank, not that stormtroopers can oneshot a tank that has vet 3. I guess my nonliteral exaggeration should be applied sparingly with results like this.


The point, by the way, that you completely missed is that a stormtrooper squad is much more effective at raping a tank to death than a PIAT squad in any kind of vehicle will EVER be, while PE Schreks in a halftrack can kill both tanks and infantry, something clown car'd PIATs distinctly cannot do very well.


EDIT -


The point is you don't oversupply on disposable shitty clown car halftracks because their job in life is to take shots for your valuable anti-tank unit because that would be retarded.

And you don't suicide the stormtroopers. Because, again, that would be retarded.

This is actually the second time you have responded like this.  The first time was to one of my posts on the Stacked Games thread.  Both times you responded like an angry person!  And again just now...

That aside, your right I though you meant storms are good at hunting vet 3s (which they are).  I disagree that storms in clowncars are more effective than PIATS in a clowncar though.  Ive been on the receiving end of someone who uses the gimmick bren carrier rush starts, I beat it both times but it is very annoying and it CAN defeat someone that is not prepared for it.  And PIATS in my experience seem to kill infantry much better than a schrek can.

Basically what I am saying is as a Blitz player with Storms, you really do not have the resources to be putting your storms in a clown car.  You can do it if you really want to yes, but It wont be nearly as effective as the british strategy.  Thats all,  I am not saying Storms are underpowered because they are not.  I am not saying PIATS are better than storms in General (I would take a Stormtrooper with Schreks over a PIAT squad any day).  I am saying PIATS in bren carriers are more effective than stormtroopers in halftracks.

Switch Piat cloak for Storm Cloak. Loverly... LOL

AND yes I see PE with more stormies than some Blitz battalions.

the accuracy of a PIAT does not matter in most ambush circumstances, its the damage and cloak factor.  The several shots shouldn't happen, it should be 1 or 2 shots max until decloak, like falls were adjusted to be now.

They get 2 shots then de-cloak, or if they turn too far on the first shot they de-cloak instantly anyways.

I never responded to you in the Stacked Games thread, in fact you have only posted once, and after all of my posts.

Maybe I would respond more kindly if what you said wasn't a lie or misinterpretation 100% of the time.

I have not lied at all.  And I mistook something one time.  Sorry.  I accidently posted as aklein210 in the other thread a few times.

What do I have to gain by lying?...  I am not trying to get Stormtroopers buffed or nerfed, nor am I trying to get PIATS or bren carriers buffed or nerfed.  I was only pointing something out.  Then you come on here cursing at me...

Re-inforcements mean you can pretty much get anything for what you want to do.

The fact that every PE and Wehr do mix these units to make storms/ Pgrens yankbusters + IHT viable, pretty much as standard, means yes they do have the same options.

Nevermind cloaking vet 3 storms, with a full compliment of Schrecks thanks to the PE Falls, supply drop.

Both of Which Smokaz does :p

And that rapes I've seen it with my own eyes. Had 2 squads of Stormies, 5 shreks among them. I kid you not, In ONE volley a FULL health cromwell was Out of control, think he did to a sherman as well. That was funny but OP at the same time.


I find the Luffe Reforcement package the most rewarding out all the PE ones. Falls and IHT in one package. The other two don't give me nothing that intrest's me, and the only PP cost would be paying for the package, unless you oversupply (which you don't need to do).
Also, IHT>Bren. Simply being, IHT has Surpession,Room for 2 SQUADS and cost pop wise the same as a bren.
2 Flamers, 2 Genadiers and 2 IHT's >Openings :D
Would use Stormies in the HT for opening (so they have 4 shreks in the clown car instead of 2) but I went for Terror.

Anyways, this is all is SERIOUSLY moving away from the reason the topic was posted.
It was the "opness" of Piat cloak. I don't find it that bad. Just keep moving and get a squad of Volks ect to spot them or just rush a tank (with crush) into cover they are. Might get hit once or twice. But you can push them out (which means they are now uncloaked) and/or run over some members which also helps :D

Thats ridiculous storms disappear in the middle of mg fire and pak can disappear in negative cover, atleast this  actually requires cover. If you want that fixin i want the axis equivalent fixin too.

have people noticed how people as wehr using paks will leave the pak uncloaked for the first shot when your tank is rushing and then cloak as your tank gets ready to fire at the pak making the pak take 2 risk free shots of no damage...

tbh I think all cloaked units need to be looked at, it just ruins EIRR gameplay imo and doesn't fit in the current EIR environment..

200% accuracy don't stop them from flying past a moving target :o

But yeah, it's pretty op, i had like one sapper survive a piat clowncar explosion, that brought a panther down to 5%, i ran through the enemy blob of volks and grens, behind green cover(tree) and cloaked, everything stopped shooting, next shot hit the panther and destroyed the engine, before they decloaked me with infantry the panther was toast.

Lets be simple.

DON'T BRING ANY OTHER UNIT COMBOS INTO THIS DISCUSSION IT IS ABOUT PIAT BEING ABLE TO ALMOST INSTA GIB A P4 WITH ITS AMBUSH ABILITY. AND AMBUSH WHEN MARIO KART IS DESTROYED. Thank you

Now the old PIAT was le crap since it couldn't hit on anything. A motorcycle can rolla round while under fire from PIATs and would survive for 2-4 volleys unless the brits get lucky.

Now with this newer Piat that has better accuracy adding 200% accuracy and 50% damage especially with the ability of PIATs hitting rear armor since it hits the top part of the tank. The ability to fire over obstacles with accurate fire is one thing that is annoying since people are unable to respond to that fire with whatever unit. Mhm ...

Nerfing PIAT will take away its use. Buffing its Price leads people not to buy it anymore. So what possible nerf/buff would work? Decrease accuracy a little?

What about a discussion about stormtroopers being able to almost insta gib a sherman with their ambush ability? Plus being able to move. Plus having better weapons and health and a way to heal...

PIATs are fine if Stormtroopers are fine.

I do like your thinking.

How about this:
Everytime the sappers leave a Building or Vehicle(including destruction of the vehicle) a small cooldown, 10-20 sec maybe, is applied to the piat ambush ability.

This way piats arent able to instant cloak every time their clown car gets destroyed but their ability still remains usefull.

OffTopic: Same thing happend to the Commando Smoke in vCoH, it used to be available all the time, and Commandos could drop everwhere, then use their smoke immideatly, so they changed it, that after commandos are dropped on the field they have a CD on their smoke ability.

Stormtroopers beats PIATs in price. I don't know Storm's current Price but I'm sure that 2 Shrecks on Storm squad is a lot more munition and MP investment than a Sapper squad with PIATs. Stormtroopers are meant for rear line activity scouting usually spots them immidiately. If you beat a Storm squad off map or kill it and get a free shreck or get unlucky chance of getting no shreck you've destroyed more from enemy army compared to Wehr/PE destroying one PIAT squad and maybe get 1 PIAT or nothing

Note as well that Stormtrooprs are Axis elite infantry and PIAT squad is just an Engineer unit armed with Anti Vehicle weaponry. Thus Health difference, weapon difference and everything else. Both of these units has nothing in common except the Anti vehicle thing depending on How storms are armed



That would work. Adding a cooldown on evac vehicle thing for all Cloaking units would nullify immidiate storm drop cloak and sniper cloak thing and this PIAT cloak thing

Agreed

Please when you do a comparison of the effectiveness of stormies and piat sappers, note that the sappers are non-doctrinal infantry costing 2/3 of storms in manpower and around 1/3ish in terms of munitions. Which unit should be better at their job, the doctrinal infantry costing much more manpower/munitions or a cheaper non-doctrinal unit?

When you factor in the clown car the costs are pretty similar.

So it's which is more effective, a clown car bren of PIATs or a squad of stormtroopers?

But that is adding a new unit when the chat was only between Storms and PIATs. Adding in Bren is same like adding a IHT which has its own cost plus 50 pp cost Reinforcements which is either for Storms or for IHTs. Ain't too valid imo.

The fact that PIAT Ambush is 200% Accuracy and 50% Damage is enormous and the thing is, they can do it in middle of combat while under fire and then respond with 200% accuracy and 50% damage toward their attackers and if tank nearby it gets a lot of damage as caculated in earlier posts.

Well, no. Where there's storms there aren't necessarily IHTs, but where there are PIATs there can (and usually are) bren carrier cars.

The costs are similar, and since the units are paired so much anyway, it may as well be a valid comparison.


It would be like comparing a schrek and a pak to an overdrive sherman. The former are together very often and available to any wehr player, whereas the latter exist (and are arguably overpowered, just like the former to a different extent) in a much more concentrated doctrine space for their faction.

This is just like PIAT and bren being available to any commonwealth player, whereas stormtroopers exist in a much more concentrated (or less, depending on reinforcements) doctrine space for their faction.

Piat does 90 Base dmg, so a piat ambush does 135.
A Wehrmacht Panzershrek does 120 dmg(at all times)

In my opinion the numbers on Piats, their pice, their stats + piat ambush are fine, its just the way piat ambush is currently usable and used so often not very fair(I mean the instant cloak after unloading)

A simple Cooldown on Piat Ambush after every unloading would fix this.

Offtopic: Something that affects the entire perception of piats is the fact that if you use Attack Ground with them their accuracy might seem a bit better, meaning that if you use attack ground in the middle of a tank the piats still scatter but over the entire tank.

PIATS are fine and PIAT Sappers in Brens rarely make it out of combat alive.

Do panzer elite use the same shreck than wehr in EiR? Because if not then the PE shreck does 105 damage.

Another thing that never gets mentioned is that not only is the bren smaller and easier to get around the retarded amount of obstacles you find in any map but also that the PIAT can shoot over all that shit without problems, making it vastly superior to shrecks.

Storms cost 300 manpower and 280 munitions for dual shreks.   One volley from cloak does 240 damage to a sherman, out of 636 hp.

Piats cost 200 manpower and 100 munitions for a pair of piats.  One volley from cloak does 432 damage to unskirted P4s and 324 damage to skirted P4s, out of 600 hp.

I rest my case.

You forget piats get a huge damage bonus against most axis tanks.  It gets a 1.6 damage multiplier vs P4s, panthers, tigers, etc.    This goes down to 1.2 if the target is skirted.

Wow, I didn't know they were so ridicolous.

Actually, the argument included the Bren Carrier and is the main reason PIAT ambush is even being considered OP. Because IF the engineers survive they can cloak using the carcass.

Well Fall and Storms can both cloak as much as they want, PIATs have a 60 second cooldown. Normally most shots miss anyways or there is only 1 piat left out of a squad of 4 men. Yes they can shoot over obstacles but Shrecks constantly hit our tanks at maximum range.

I think adding a cooldown on cloak for all cloaked units exiting vehicle would be fair,  even cloaked units exiting after their ride is destroyed.

QUESTION: The piats get the ambush bonus when cloaked in cover. Does the “garrison cover” they get when the halftracks count towards this?

ON A SIDE NOTE:  I have noticed that zappers are able to a territory even when cloaked. This is extremely OPowerfull on maps with large sectors!

Answer: no it doesnt

On a side note: thats a bug i believe and not intended.

no

Haven't seen that.

Shows how little you know about the brits.
PIAT Ambush is a clickable ability that you can only click on when not moving and in cover - and the button goes away whenever you enter a halftrack, bren carrier, kangaroo or any other garrisonable entity.

Gamesguy you seem to forget that stormtroopers are movable in cloak and PIAT sappers must find the perfect place to camo and then cloak, stormtroopers can use their cloak offensively to kill tanks at will

Stormtroopers can cloak anywhere they want, anytime they want, while moving.

They bring cloaked AT to the enemy rather than vice versa.

They also are very easy to suppress, if you keep your vehicles near your units its usually difficult for cloaked stormtroopers to be effective.  Killing unsupported tanks is where Stormtroopers shine.  Calliopes sitting alone at the spawn or somewhere on the map with no units near them are a prime target.  Also tanks rushing ahead of their support.  If the allies keep their tanks behind or with their support stormtroopers usually only get 1 volley off before they are suppressed and forced to retreat.

I do not know why we are arguing about stormtroopers effectiveness, this post is about PIAT ambush.  There is no comparison between a British basic unit with AT to Axis elite infantry with AT.  I have had PIAT squads devestate me before and I am not a newbie player.

PIATS in clown cars are really dangerous.  Perhaps not as much as a Stormtrooper squad behind enemy lines is but again theres no comparing an elite expensive unit to a basic unit with AT.  A better comparison would be a pioneer squad with schreks to a sapper piat squad.

A cooldown on all cloaking abilities when exiting a vehicle is fair IMO.

Why not just a cooldown on all cloaking abilities period? ;)

And PIAT sappers are different... how?


And how is this different from PIAT sappers, who are more fragile, more easily suppressed, and less easily able to escape suppression than stormtroopers?


Because it's about a cloaking AT infantry unit. Stormtroopers are a cloaking AT infantry unit. It's a pretty easy parallel to make.


PIATs in a clown car cost 430 manpower, 100 munitions, and 30 fuel. A double schrek stormtrooper squad, as mentioned, costs 300 manpower and 280 munitions. The cost is close to comparable, and in my opinion the stormtrooper schreks are infinitely more dangerous than some clown car full of PIATs, even to tanks that are well supported (in fact, especially more to tanks that are well supported, as you can alpha strike the tank and cloak off into the night, whereas PIATs in a car you can see coming, and then blow up the car, drastically reducing their survivability).


Maybe even a cooldown on all abilities when existing a vehicle is even more fair. Prevents stickybomb clown cars, too.

First, i would call a difference of 180 munitions quite a bit.  And if you add a clown car for those stormtroopers the difference is even more.

PIAT squads in bren carriers are not easy to suppress.  Why?  Because they are in bren carriers, you have to kill the carrier first.  And once you do they insta cloak behind the heavy cover of the wreck.

Would you be ok with allowing pioneer squads to purchase schreks and ride around in clown cars?  That would be a better comparison.

You cannot only look at the cloaking ability when comparing a sapper squad to a stormtrooper squads.  They are two differant units with the exception of being able to kill tanks.  If you really want to compare a stormtrooper squad to another squad,  I would compare them to Airborne recoiless.

Also you usually need 2 double schreck storm squads to alpha a sherman tank.  1 squad will not kill a tank.  In fact most of the time a single sherman will defeat a single double schrek squad.

A cooldown on all abilities when exiting is fair.  As long as the squad is atleast able to fire their weapons.

Airborne can not cloak, so there is no comparison to the completely ridiculous bullshit storms.
What elite at infantry would you like the Brits to use instead of the cheap sappers.
While stats say the piats are strong, you need to take into consideration their poor accuracy. Once again making them a poor unit, hence the price..
The only unit that should cloak in this game is a sniper. One solitary unit able to camouflage himself.
Cloaking tanks, squads, AT guns are all just bullshit that really only adds bitching to the game.
Get rid of it and the axis will bitch. Give more to the allied, the axis will bitch.
Does anybody else see a pattern here.

I second that. (or maybe just remove moving and cloaking on all units but the sniper)

It would add more realism to the game, no more stealth units but the sniper.

I would call a difference of 50% more manpower and 30 fuel "a bit" just like I'd call slightly more than 50% more munitions "a bit".


PaK and a volk squad.


Pioneers are also much less expensive than Sappers and just as fragile. Plus a schrek is more expensive than PIATs. It would have all kinds of weird connotations. You'd have to let sappers buy flamethrowers and bunkers and shit and it'd be fine.


Airborne recoilless do not do as much damage as stormtroopers with schreks, they cannot cloak (the only similarity being cloak and fireup lets you negate MGs, while cloak is immensely more strategically useful), et c. et c.

If you want to compare an AT unit with a cloak ability to another AT unit with a cloak ability, the only comparison would be storm schreks to piat sappers, as they are the only AT infantry units with cloak abilities.


Also you usually need 2 PIAT sapper squads to (attempt) to alpha a panzer tank. 1 squad will not kill a tank. In fact most of the time a single panzer will defeat a single piat sapper squad.

See wut I did thar?


Would mean a stop to clown cars as we know it! Well, at least sort of.

Mal, so much fail in your post.  Lets see, you can't compare 2 piats to 2 shrecks to kill a main tank.  Why don't you compare the costs? See what I did there?  Next, a pak won't kill a bren.  It will get one shot, then be flanked.  Pak and volk squad what a joke.  The piats will most likely kill your volk squad, then kill the pak.  Brit players aren't retarded.

I dont think that will change, since clown cars are supposed to be a mobile platform for piats and not a suicid-rush-then-piat-ambush-car.

@ Blitzen: Your post doesnt seem to make much sense to me. But 2 things ive noticed: one pak shot at a bc now takes away aprox 75% of a bc and its inside squad health. Units inside BC can currently be shot out by normal rifle fire(i think its not supposed to be that way?) Sappers very rarely win against volks.

So true:
So how do the piats win against the pak and the volks.  Clown car comes, one shot from the pak, half of the men inside die, faust shot kills the bren carrier, piats go out and rape everything?
Volks will kick their asses even if they shoot with only one rifle.

If you think that is true I don't need to even care about anything you say.

I mean, the stupid.

It just hurts so bad. In fact, it hurts so bad I have to leave this thread. And never, ever come back.

Perhaps giving a short cooldown on all units that are dumped out of transports when they're destroyed, but permit them to jump out on their own safely without that taking effect?  It would allow you to have a mobile force, and encourage people to stop using BC's/IHT's as suicide boxes.

This whole thread is made of fail, tbh.

Whats with the retarded comparison to stormtroopers?

Storms are doctrinal elite infantry that cost a huge amount of munitions, piat sappers are regular line infantry that cost a medium amount of munitions.  Comparing to storms is inherently dishonest.

The best comparison is the grenadier with a single shrek.


Grenadier: 240 manpower, 120 munitions for a single shrek.
Sappers:  200 manpower, 100 munitions for two piats.

Can anyone say with a straight face that the sappers are not 2x better than the grens?   

The comparison is made because you're complaining about ambush, which is a cloak ability.

I do!

Sappers (http://coh-stats.com/w/index.php?title=Infantry:Sappers): 240 HP in 4 Man
Grenadiers (http://coh-stats.com/Infantry:Grenadiers): 320 HP in 4 Man
Sappers Lee Enfield Rifle (http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Lee_Enfield_Rifle)
Kark98K (http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Wehrmacht_Kar98K_Elite Grenadiers)
Piat (http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Projector_Infantry_Anti_Tank)
Panzerschreck (http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Wehrmacht_Panzerschreck)

Engineers (http://wiki.coh-stats.com/index.php?title=Engineers) 110 MP, 3 pop Flamethrower 50 Mun Democharge 60 Mun (1 use) American Mines 35 Mun (2 uses) Minesweeper 10 Mun Machine Gun Nest 50 Mun (1 use) Triage Center 120 Mun (1 use) Wire Sandbags Tanktraps Sappers (http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/british/units/sappers.html) 200 MP, 4 pop Piats 100 Mun Detection and Demolition + Mine 70 Mun (1 use) Trenches Wire Sandbags Pioneers (http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/wehrmacht/units/pioneers.html) 110 MP, 2 pop Flamethrower 50 Mun Goliath 90 Mun (1 use) Wehrmacht Mines 15 Mun (1 use) Minesweeper 10 Mun Medikit 15 Mun (2 uses) Bunker 5 Mun (1 use) Bunker (MG42) 55 Mun (1 use), 2 pop Wire Sandbags Tanktraps Do you think pioneers and engineers are better than sappers?

What the hell does engineers and pios have anything to do with this?

Also sappers have soldier armor, which makes them tougher than their HP indicates.

Sapper with piats are much much better than grenadiers with a single shrek.

umm you were sorta comparing damage capabilities in an earlier post between sappers and storms..

Shreks accursey is only slightly better, your saying at long range I can hit a sherman? No, only 1 hits it out of 3 shreks fired from my 2 tankbusters hits.

BTW if 2 piats can kill a main battle tank of the Axis a Panther, then why is it so bad that it takes 2 of the Elite Axis Infantry with a AT weapon to kill a Sherman, a light tank?

See what i did there.

First of all, the Panther is not a main battle tank. Second of all, a Sherman is not a light tank.

Thirdly, if a Panther is killed by Piats then he was probably too close to them.

Plus PIATs have pretty bad penetration at long range.

Why are you comparing piats to things that cost 3x as much munitions?

You should be comparing piats to grenadiers with a single shrek.

Two piats will one volley a p4 from ambush.  Two grenadier squads with shreks will only do 1/3 damage to a sherman.  And the grenadier cost more.

Something is wrong here.

You must be thinking about their accuracy. Their penetration at long range is 1.

Are you sure the piats will one volley a P4 from ambush?  I've never seen that happen.

And why is everbody ignoring that sappers are usually basic building infantry like pios or engineers but unfortunately provide the only basic handheld AT weapon the brits have?

I said two squads of piats.  Thats 4 total.

From ambush it does 860 damage to a P4 without skirts and over 600 to a P4 with skirts, plenty to one volley it.

Two squads of grenadiers with a shrek each does only 240 damage to a sherman/cromwell, and they cost more.


Because they are as tough as grenadiers against a lot of things.

They have 60 hp and soldier armor, compare to PGs which only have 55hp and soldier armor.   Sappers are tougher than four man PGs, the line infantry of PE.

Saying sappers are builders is being disingenuous.  Sappers are very much line infantry in every sense of the word.  Just because grenadiers can build sandbags and wire doesnt make them builders.

Piats have trouble hitting anything that's moving, ambush or not. Sure they get a few good shots in now and again but most of their shots will miss.

Yes, but their target tables penetration are pretty bad without the 2x multiplier at medium and short range. (It doesn't help that the inaccuracy compounds the problem.)

Thats their tradeoff for being able to shoot through buildings and hedges.  And thats why you have button.

Either way you look at it, piat sappers are vastly better than shreked grens.


They arc over and hit the rear armor half the time anyways.

Well if you're adding Tommies+bren then that Pak at the back makes the grens better again..... ::)

What Brits don't get the 6pounder?

Tommies+bren are like grenadiers with LMGs, ok lets add grenadiers with LMGs to the wehr side, too bad they can't button. ::)

Quite funnily enough, I never really ever had my PIATs do that except once or twice during the time I have played EiRR recently.

You're throwing random extra units and comparisons into the mix every time.

The OP is about Piats and more importantly, ambush. I have never seen 2 Piat sappers in ambush kill a P4, skirted or not. In a single volley. Most of the shot will still miss, Especially if the P4 is moving.

Ambush gives you perfect accuracy, you cannot miss unless the target is moving.

And two piat sappers do more than enough damage to one volley a P4.

Let's make it like it is in vCoH and remove the cooldown.

Yeah, you can keep cloaking infinitely as soon as you decloak in vCoH.

I abused the shit out of it against my clanees in a recent game :D.

It's already nerfed when compared to vCoH.


2 Piat sappers also won't hit a P4 to one-volley it, except at close range. Heck, I've even seen the current PIAT miss from point blank, while ambushing and the enemy tank was buttoned. One of the most hillarious things in the game it was, but still, you get the point.

I honestly don't see your point - PIATs are quite fine the way they are with the ambush. The only proper "annoyance" with them - cloaking behind a wrecked bren carrier, has been adressed with the sappers taking damage as the bren takes damage(which is actualy pretty gay, IMO - it was the reason I didn't use the initial bren carrier), and the major price increase on the bren carrier(good job with the double-nerfing.... again).

Also Gren shrecks can support tanks and easily blow up any allied ATG. Trying this with Piats is a joke.

I'm fine with the piats strength. I'm a pe player and I know lots of way to counter it.
I got 2 things against piats:
1st: The insta-cloak when their bren gets killed. It's really annoying when u dont have inf to get them out of their cloak.
2st: THEY CAN ACTUALLY SHOT THROUGH HOUSES!!!  ???
Once, somebody kill my panther just by putting 3 piats behind an house and then he cloak it on nearby sandboxes. And he killed my panther in 1 shot. I couldnt attack the piats with inf due to a backed mg (Cause yeah, rifles dont shoot throught houses, u need to pass around it.) and neither I could kill them with tanks. (I let you guess why). I also couldnt retreat cause it's was a chokepoint on the map. The worse in that, it's that he also use these piats to kill my infantry.

@1: Ah simple CD on Piatambush when they exit the vehicle due to its destruction would fix this.
@2: Piats (short for Projector Infantry Anti Tank) are best perceived as Artillery Weapons, they get shoot into the air and come down on their targets unlike other AT weapons that are shot directly at their targets, thats why piats can shot OVER obstacles.

I'm not talking OVER the house but TROUGHT it. Shouldn't the damned piats just hit the house instead? This should be impossible for 2 reason:
1: How can u get a sight of the tank on the other side of the house?
2: If he can actually shot over obstacles, there should be a REALLY big accuracy decrease. I mean, try to aim and to shoot over a 5 stage house.

IT needs no accuraccy decrease, PIATs can't hit moving targets 60% of the time and if they do they are guaranteed to penetrate

No, I mean only having an accuracy decrease when he's shooting over an house or an obstacle.

Well it may look like they shoot through houses, but thats because piats have the same firing arc regardless of where or over what they shoot. Its a game design flaw, not a bug or so. Same with Mortars that are house-hugging, their shots also might as well hit the house ;).

@1: Houses arent LOS obstacles, drive one of your scouting units behind a house and youll have the same los in any direction
@2: Piats already have poor accuracy all alone (and there arent that many 5 floor houses ingame ;) ) decreasing their accuracy any further would make them completly useless.

Nope.  Stuhs are artillery weapons too and they can't shoot through houses and hedges.

If piats acted like Stuhs(ie can only shoot over certain obstacles) then I would have a lot less problem with them.

Right now, Piats are the only really dangerous AT brits get, and that is still through smart use of a specialist unit.
They aren't overly hard to kill, and they have to setup to be a real danger to most armour.

The weapon has it's good and bad points, but overall it evens out to a decent weapon, both in power and effectiveness, compared to other weapons in the same scope.

the firefly is pretty dangerous...unless you mean AT besides tanks.

Firefly only outranges vet 2 IB P4s by 5 CoH metres or so - extremely hard to kite with such a low range difference -.-

That's why you don't engage things 1v1 with a FF.
Also, to imply that the FF is useless because it's hard to kite one specific unit (if that unit has vet, and a specific doc unlock) is pretty silly.

The 6pdr is pretty dangerous, too.
In fact, the only AT that isn't that great is the Boys Rifle. Everything else is pretty deadly.

U kidin me? The Firefly is a great solo tank vs. armour.

Depends if it's at max range or not.
The new hulldown and command tank taking hits for it is when the tank really shines.