COH: Europe In Ruins

Sorry, I still love this mod and will continue to play it, but it is really realyl really really really frustrating for newer players, and

I can see why many newer players would not want commit to this mod.

My main beef is that, well, it seems that the main tactic is blobbing. It's "Put ur vet 3 airborne with my vet 3 Commandos" together and win.

I understand, ARTILLERY, but honostly, nothing seems to harm them, especially at vet 2-3.

Maybe it is becaus the allied have a bunch of more stuff to use, hell, even new stuff I.E. Officer bonuses, but I really got this mod in hopes that I could play a blob free game. I wanted squad v squad with a dash of support or a dash of armor to help, you know what I mean. I'll keep playing, and maybe this will get fixed, but I am a bit disappointed you guys...more so in the player base than the moderators, I have the upmost respect for fixing the factions, (particularly the British).

A couple of other problems, I am seeing a helluva lot more vet 3 bren tommies...they're near invincible, which goes to vet, and it's annoying that we have to commit so much resources just to realize they still have another half of a company, well, that is for the newer players.

I'm also a bit concerned about some certain units...the Commando sniper for one example, and im not complaining about their effectiveness, it's that they dont die. Ever. Even with a puma a good range, they dont die.

You know what, I'm done ranting. All i can say is that I'm truely a bit disappointed...

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=11254.msg192454;topicseen#new

Did you watch some replay to see how some of the higher level players handle this sort of stuff?

I think the OP was aiming at something different, not the PP low rank vs high rank - but the way that the elite units tend to be atm.

And hes right, they are harder to tackle, but there are ways.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5136/epicfailp.jpg)

Thats what happens when you blob against me and yet we still lose :P Blobbing ftl

 (http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/5221/51810019.jpg) (http://img353.imageshack.us/i/51810019.jpg/)

wtf @ that K/D ratio LOL

meh, in my last 5 games or so God put me against bl0bz with Superheavy tanks (KT etc.) behind them... damn, that sucks! :P i gotta try it too, looks like maybe blobbing my airborne as hell is the only way to win these days ;)LOL - Airborne day in its full parade :D but i can see why there was such a force dropped out there ;)

Eh....

That AB blob really is.... scary.

And yet it says you lost, two...  :P

Quoting myself.. anyway.

Theres quite a lot of MU tied up in that blob.
While the first 'push' of it would pretty much wipe anything off, I dont see it as impossible to counter.

Still, DOES need a look at.

Yeah backcapped :( I thought it was going to be close with them with no units, i look at the map at the end and theres 2 more blobs and a m10/sherman blob. I was like WTF!

It goes both ways really.

New players to CoH are gonna have major problems.
New players to EiR will have some problems, but depending on Vcoh skill, should still be able to hard counter units.

Generally though, someone with a good grasp of basic CoH tactics, who can adjust to the way squads/call-ins work, should not be having a major problem with anything ingame.

Vet is something that could be toned down, but then, what do you work for?

This is from the point of a next to nothing vet company, I use my troops to the last man generally, and prefer to lose squads and cause enough damage to win the battle/war than to harvest exp and vet my units.
Of course it's hard to face vet units, even volks with vet 3 are a pain in the arse, but it's all counter-weighted by them being retreated earlier.

As an aside, I have been getting abuse non stop for using my artillery doctrine to it's full potential, yet the same people have double Knights cross vet call ins, and double vet falls call ins etc.

At one point we faced 2 new ATHT, 2 mortar HT and 2 P4's and they still cried about me using my earthshaker.
Then double firestormed us haha.

Oi! 4 airborne players in a 4v4.

dammit, here goes the price increase of RRs and whatsoever :/

That kind of blobs is the reason why I have a company with a vet 3 stuka, vet 3 nebel, rocket arty, large rockets, ready rounds and an officer rofl.

Yep, RRs, the only thing that can stand up to heavy armor spam.

NERF! I say!

No, the issue isnt with costing for that.

Its with the availability of AB troops, although, as availability is a soft cap, itd only reduce the frequecy of seeing this, rather than eliminate it.

RR is fine in cost, if you look at that blob, and manage to stall it - the rest of the company will be quite attritted for MU.

i can't find the replay atm but that blob was killed of if u didn't know..

i found it. watch the bigest blob of EIRR times
http://www.filefront.com/14130925/blobfestkillfest.rar

First of my little post thingy is freaking the hell out and wont stop going up and down...2nd off, I have some good experience playing vCOH, I know how to handle units and which units do well against what etc, know how to path tanks as good as the AI will allow, etc. for instance, I palyed 1v1 as British and got up to...i think it was 500 rank area? nontheless, I know what I am doing. I've played this game for 3 years now.Agreed, that airborne spam looks eerie, but it's from all 4 players having the same doctrine choices. If all 4 playeres went luftwaffe and had flak 38's and wirble's and falls....you know, those games (albiet spam and really lame), are just one in a million.

yes, I'm newer to EIR:R, but let me post a game I played today with a guy named Jack. Jack is really Good. Jack has a lot of Vet. Jack knows what's going on..but our team came SO CLOSE to winning, it's just that sometimes numbers and statistics win, regardless of tactics. I've played him 5-7 times today, lost all of them lol, because he was the only allied player on...and i suddenly realized i cant for the life of me remember if i need to post the file of the game or not...and i dont remember the game #. CRAP.

For instance, I cant remember when, but I had just sneaked around some defenses, took out the mortar and AT gun, panther sniped the Quad, and all that was left was a lone, vet 3 bren tommy squad with an lmg42. 2 quads of STG44'd Stormies in heavy cover with a panther point blank, against a 3-4 man vet 3 squad. Honostly, I lost 6 stormies in the last strech of fighting against the last 1-2 tommies. I'd like to look at the veterancy tables. Hell, the panther was pushing them out of cover so they couldnt fire their stationary bren guns...GAHHH

Sorry for the double post, but I can only type so long until my little box starts freaking out.

I really enjoy the game, I'm gald the Britsih are actually a functional army now...even though I dont play them! But another thing that will and always had annoyed me is the amount of armor Allies can get. I know, they're supposed to, but that's because the theory was that panzers and other german tanks can kill them in 1-2 shots.
So, all in all, my main AT is a pair of panthers and a panzer. I'm trying to follow 31st's old strat of no At guns..maybe one, cuz I'm blitz, but if anyone can draft up a good anti large amounts of armor if you dont have a kt/jagd etc...paks dont kill fast enough, they really dont. Paks take like 5 shots to kill, but 57's take 3-4 shots. It's confusing.

Shermans and Panzer IVs cost almost the same thing actually. Have you used StuGs? They are pretty cheap at countering Shermans for their cost.

Spitfire, I'd be more inclined to think you did something wrong, as even most vets don't get more than 20% or so on any given thing (acc, dmg, inc. acc, etc).  

But about AB blobs, that kinda stuff happens when you have 4x Airborne players.  If you had 4x Armor, you'd prolly see a ton of Pershings lol.

But I've seen one company w/ something scary like 12 rrs (oversupplied i think).  Although, the scarier thing were the 2 KT and 2 Tigers in the same game.  

Axis and allies spam/blob.  Though, I find that axis normally spam heavy tanks (Tiger, KT, Jag [3 in a 2v2!]) while allies spam infantry ('elite' inf are their only good inf, rangers, AB...)

My particular brand of spam revolves around my 4 zombie shermans.  OBM t4 = 3 possible lives per tank.  It's worked great, although, last game it failed horribly.

I lost a vet 2 sherm in a normal fight.  Then a vet 3 sherm got chased down by one of those gay-as-hell upgunned ATHT's (really, make them at least lock down, they're the ultimate tank griefing vehicle right now).  Then a vet 2 hellcat got triple-alpha-shreked at range as my position (now denuded of protective sherman cover) was zerged by a giant blob of elite vetted PE infantry.  

And need I mention superior axis AT?  (Shreks???) And paks shoot faster than ATG's which need a 50mu upgrade to be all that usefull.  Oh, and paks cloak and don't shoot infantry w/o micro -_-
Axis can field more and better tanks than the allies ever can.  4x pIVs beats sherms, I don't even want to know how many stugs you can field (6+ easily...) not to mention KT's Tigers Jagds hetzers stuhs and any other tanks I might be forgetting.  

haha i watched that replay and... I lol'd as expected. i just don't see all that whining about Allied offmaps (which Axis got too btw.) and "AB spam" in place... just see THAT replay and you'll get it - that blob was dead before it's landed even if Axis wouldn't have that Officer/arty there lololololol. How many KCHs of boobaka were there? sorry but i stopped counting it after some time... and PE player as usually blobbin' G43s/MP44s... just bullshit. that Allied blob maybe did manage to kill those Heavies, but only because they were really so many - I effing doubt they would kill anything more than Jagd if in that game was maximum of 2 AB players. 2 KTs in KingTigerLT's Company - play with (eh, against) that... that is MY disappointment in this mod (looks like im gonna buy some Little Boys, hope there'll be enough PPs for 'em!)

Same man, my feelings exactly.

Heavy tank companies are getting really old really fast.

And it's not fine. There's a reason why retail coh limits heavy armor to 1 per person/KTs get no vet/allied vet is better than axis.

At this point, blobing airbourne is a must in an even game. That and double pershing companies are the only reliable way of staying competitive in this metagame

you played addy itsself with his PE i watched it in a broadcast
exactly in this game your team had hoards of vet RR airbornes, only the combination of hmgs of wehrmacht, assaulting units and addys "ubermicro skillz" counterblob and scorched earth tactics could manage to win this bad played game by the allies....

according your shermans....

i saw your fail sherman charge and that was just bad play...i screamed into vent "HUNT HUNT HUNT...charge all your AT ...." it was 2 AT HTs and a marder and in the back his blob with 2 shrecks....

after you let them shoot your vet3 sherman all the way to spawn into the ass it went down....STRIKE

:D even a stug would have killed that fail microed tank

By addy you mean aloha right?

shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell everyone

Queens of the stoneage - No one knows

and thats why i have soo many KCH

wrong, double pershing with on board repairs plus another repaired is OP, bring this topic up more and it will be nerfed.

Double KT companies are full of failure these days, especially in a 2v2.

Name me one good player who still uses a dual KT company.

Dunno but I've lost to a dual Jagd company.

Yeah, that was a rather fail micro game for me.  But the only reason my vet3 sherman died was because those damn upgunned atht's could outrun it and keep shooting it at the same time.

bla bla bla nerf the airborne.... and when we are 3-4 ab players and do this massive drop its becouse its so much fun... They are not hard to counter.

I have 9 squads of ab with rrs and 4 ab riflemens and then again that is like the only good thing i have. and all it takes to make them run for their lifes is anti inf and arty.

And cant get it why ppl say its wrong to blob them when they do the same with all their assualt grens and kch spam.

Nerf the airbornes or decrease their availability = kch, storms, pe troops = dead ab = no fun

Big Dick dont really know why i even bother reading your post. Taunting, axis fanboy bla bla bla

Do you feel being able to field 9 Airborne RR normally is justified?
Do you feel being able to field 4 Airborne Rifle normally is justified?
Do you know the supply of other elite infantry besides Airborne?
Do you think arty is is available to all players?
Define your version of blob please! (Are 2/3/4/x squads a blob?)
If you field your 1-13 squad Airborne army, do you leave it completey unsupported?
Do you have any hardcounters to Anti-Infantry units in your battalion?
If the anwser to the question above is yes, do you know any hardcounters to those hardcounters that arent suspicable to RR's?
Do you feel that the units you mentioned if supposed being blobbed by axis players are the same fighting force like Airborne RR?

Another thing is that you don't see enough examples of certain combinations being gamebreakingly OP cause people just arent powergaming enough, or they are trying to powergame but are too stupid (lol) to figure out what to get.

Bren tommies + Airborne = The powerful british tank disabler making up for their difficult-to-use handheldt AT combined with the most infuriatingly survivable infantry in the and the arguably "best" handheld AT.

Stormtroopers + Terror = Cloaked zeal stormtroopers with inspired assault... nuff said.

Cct + American tanks = Rape.

LT + American infantry = Rape.

Airborne + Bangbus = Put a bren, sapper and a airborne squad inside. Drive up to tank, start buttoning, exit one of the at squads (piats if there is cover nearby) and instantly destroy the armor with cloak and always penetrating rr's hitting a immobile tank.

And then again you have the combos which just make sense, that breaks the game in acceptable way since its not overly powerful or the units itself doesnt gain much in terms of synergy:

PE + mg42
Pios + Inf ht's
Flame engineers + bren carriers

Right now LT auras are stacking to allied teams.. If the american guy has his own LT and a british guy is fielding one of his own, or a cct.. yikes. The aura affecting your teammates just makes blobbing and 1 big force of nasties more viable and impacts independent action negatively while giving incentive for broken combinations.

As for a blob, its basically a unneccessarily tight packed group of infantry in the loosest term. Its advantages is the terror factor and the alpha strike of its long range weapons. Against competent players however, blobbing is usually very stupid unless you have get out of jail cards like instant offmaps, fireup or HC which sadly is very popular and available on the allied side, atm..

I totally agree with smokaz.

On a side note:
I have a Kangaroo/Brencarrier + RR combo myself, and this thing just ...
If i micro my vehicle like a madman and do drive by after drive every RR-Reload those things deal out a ton of damage and are a hard to counter.

1 RR squad plus a kanga also costs a heck load of resources, and pop.. 12 pop cap for that..

Nobody said it was cheap, but if I could pay 500 munitions for handheld V1's on my grenadiers I'd still get them

No one should be able to have more than 5 Elite infantry in thier company. The whole point of elite infantry is to be in short supply but be able to take and deal lots of damage. You might aswell call all elite infantry basic if you can get 10 off them.

I only have 5 airborne in my company all with RR's thats  enough to deal with any light vehicles or tanks that decide to rush them. They also have grenades which iv used to take on KCH, Stormtroopers, falls and won everytime.

I also have to say RR's r more effective at the moment than shreks and zooks. RR's never miss and always penetrate. Shreks 7/10 times always hit the ground or some object while RR's hit everytime.

The reason why everyone hates airborne blobs so much is because the reason above and you can field so many in ur company. Iv taken out a panther in one volly from 5 airborne squads with RR's.

and this is no where close to handheld V1s? plus kangas are shreck magnents and pak magnents.. only thing kanga is to be feared by is panthers or P4s which still make pretty quick work of 'em..

@dragon that is the most false statement about shrecks i've ever heard, shrecks are x2 as accurate as zooks and maybe miss 1 shot more then RRs do. RRs also do an incredible amount less of damage

and by the way..the only possible way one can have RRs in a kanga is if the player is RE and gets AB reinforcements..

Ontopic:
I agree with sharpshooter and also think Shreks are amazing, they do reliable damage, have a very good accuracy and are also able to hit moving targets reliably. I wouldnt say that RR are better than shreks, they are different, but not better.

Offtopic:
Yeah kangs are shrek and pak magnets, they are a huge target, i wouldnt bring them in to the discussion because by itself this unit is fine.
The units you can put into BC/Kangaroo should be core of the discussion.
And yes, i have one RE Company with Airborne reinforcements  ;D

huh, so you think 4 ab riflemen is much?

And dont forget ab worst nightmare? 3 wondering armored cars or pumas standing in the spot your landing... ops the didnt even land. not that i drop often in the middle of all shit around me but it cans till happend.

and what do we have more? flakpanzer, wirbelwind etc

lol that rrs never miss try to hit armored cars and pumas... i just say lol lol lol

I would say this, Airborne are not supposed to be used on their own, to avoid AA walk onto the field, (I walk my commandos on.) Use them with tanks or ATG's they shouldn't be fighting anti infantry tanks on their own.

I used to drop my airborne behind enemy lines and realized I was crazy.

@Dnice:
Are you unable to anwser those questions?
Or is there any reason why you ignore them completly?

1. cant field all of them at the same time, and yes i think its justified
2. 4 airborne riflemen isnt justified? lol lol lol lol
3. no i dont know...but please feel free to enlighten me.
4. Do you know what makes them good? I can tell you 275 pps makes them good
5. yes there is always some kind arty for every faction i think? then again i cant say if all of them is good to counter ab with.
6. when i have 4 ab on field its a blob yes? when pe have 2 shrecks and 2 mp44s its a blob yes? or when wher comes with the same thing its a blob yes?
7. and yes i leave my ab completey unsupported when i have 36 pop of ab on field
8. my hardcounter would be strafeing run and my shermans, some riflemens and thats about it.
9 what i would counter completey unsupported rrs with? kch blobs and volks with a firestorm. What i would counter my shermans and some rifles with? maybe some paks with mgs sitting in the back.
10. oh yeah i feel that is like the same thing as an allied blob. execpt if axis lose their blob its not that cheap. at least not as wher, havent played as pe so much.

I dont care if its going to win the game for me if i blob my ab completey unsupported. I think its so fucking hilarious if i can suprise a vet 3 kt or jagd and kill it.

happy now?  :-*

Yes thank you very much, helped alot  :)

Now the one problem i see that manifests according to those anwsers:

PE has it really hard countering Airborne!

Falls if your luft, assault flamen grens if your SE maybe?

So the one counter to airborne is catching them in the air when they drop or have falls cloaked and ready in ambush in the area? Brilliant.

Anyone who says fielding 9 airborne PLUS airborne riflemen (whose change from riflemen to actual airborne is probably the most idiotic decision ever made in EiR) is balanced in any way is completely lost in fantasy. Why even allow the toughest infantry in the game to be fielded in bigger numbers than any other elite infantry in the first place?

its fine...he has to pay PP out the ass to do it, ffs, just get mp44 grens to kick the hell out of them.  One MG + some assault troops will dominate them...

lol i really hope that you dont mean that u can field 9 ab + ab riflemen at the same time?

if that is the case i have no other choice then call you a retard mate =/

And one thing. PE have absolutely the best counter when it comes to ab! Wirbelwind, armored cars, falls, and that anti air gun thingy.

When it comes to vet i think no matter what unit it is the xp requirerments should be twice as much.

We would not see so many vet hordes... i mean even the worst players have so much vet and the good players have almost everything vet 3.

It should be really fucking hard to get vet 3 units, there is no need to nerf the vet itself just make it twice as hard to get imo.

OOoooh PP! The super hard to get resource that can be recovered any time if you sell the troops you bought with it! The super tough troops that never die because they drop behind the line, destroy whatever they want and then run off the field with their massive on the move bonuses and innate toughness!

I see the error of my ways now I am so sorry I doubted this.


Are you a blithering idiot?

I invite you to use a wirbelwind/ac vs airborne once please
Oh and falls cant do hit and run like airborne :(

Or do it like i did start a new PE Company and go play, youll see that RR rape everything pe throws at them ;)

Offtopic: RR > PE  :-\

He might be paying PP out of his arse but Airborne and Airborne rifle r the most survivable unit so he will only av to pay PP once for oversupply. MG + some assault wont kill then cos they jus use fireup and run away unless they have used it already

Ive played as wher for a very long time, not as pe and i know what rrs does and i also know how easy it is to rape them if you keep them on the right dictense. As wher i used volks, ostwinds and pumas against ab with no bigger problem.

Sure i hate ab as axis but they are not op in anyway! the only thing i dont like about ab is air supiority, that would be about the only thing that needs a nerf.

when u played wehr, nobody spammed them. these times are over!

Bro, airborne elite kites ostwinds.

What is the PE hardcounter to RR-Hit-And-Run?

g43 slow - assault grens/flamers

im offended by the swastikas

Flamers dont scratch ab - flamers kill on crits, which means low health.. ab has highest health ingame. Wehr doesnt get g43 slow either, PE doesnt get flamers (mostly). Assault can be dodged easily if you know what you are doing. They are just the kings of hit n run and AT duty, what they cant wear down in small numbers they can alpha strike in great numbers. Snipers doesnt matter that much against 6 man squads, supression doesnt matter too much to fireup.. even if some people consider the shrek equally good to the RR, no axis at infantry is as good as AB.

tbh the AB riflemen need to be removed to balance it... AB are superior AT not supposed to be good AI too..

no but when you unlock AB riflemen your AB availability should be reduced

Airborne are supposed to be tough lightly armed troops with special weapons allowing them to be very useful. They have always been this way. Allowing AB riflemen means you have a bar platform that is very sturdy and prevents infantry use vs AB. With the increased range of rrs you cannot kite them. 42 range on rrs i think and 40 for most tanks. Strafe pins inf counters and fire-up+ rrs defeats mgs/ armor. All I am saying is that there is hardly any micro needed for the blob to dominate while taking it out is stupidly hard. Add any number of other units supporting and it is gonna be epic if you win. The blob needs little micro, run here, rr that, fire up out of sup, bar the inf, kite tankslol, strafe the inf in cover that may kill a few of you, lolz i win.

Without a batt completley tailored to counter this it is very tough, and even with it is fuckin hard. I played a 3v3 vs 3 ab and we made it 1 field away from spawn. Despite what Dnicee says there are no good counters. Spaming inf is the best way, but then 1 sherman can ruin your day. Arty is a shit counter to anything moblie and is also usually doc related. play vs 3 decent AB and you lose.

I have sacrificed my wifes prize goat in hopes that the burnt offerning will reach the nostrils of EiRRmod and he will hear my plea.

That would actually make sense, if i remeber it right the first concept of this unlock was to give airborne the possibility to buy bars right? so you would have the same supply but you could equp them with bars and rr.
Now the unlock gives you a whole new unit and new supply.

(You can compare it directly to PE Luftwaffe T3 Dropping Heavy: FJ's can purchase a panzershrek in my opinion)

the first concept was that it would give AB 3 BARs without SF... whether with RRs or without them.

And I don't see why it should have been removed, there are counters and after you manage to kill or force those Paras to leave the battlefield that Airborne player will be shortened of loads of resources... it's the EXACTLY same thing as with Axis Heavy tanks...

I say, if anything - remove the oversupply so there just can't be so many Paras on the field (well, in players' battalion) but leave the current In Reserve status as is - I'm using units only in reserve and that doesn't seem to be a problem for most of my opponents.... yeah and if they're gonna do this, they also need to remove oversupply for Axis Heavy tanks ;)

Oke sorry redid my post, but the supply would still remain the same.

pls dont nerf airborn


about the screen shoot we actully lost that game and the airborn bolb aint that imba. If you counter it whit amordcar and knight cross they all die / griss

Drophack.

What is the point of buying First to jump=ab riflemen if you cant buy more ab? Who would be stupid enough to waste one tier 3 on that when you can choose Raid and Bombingrun?

What is the point of buying Luftwaffe T3 Dropping Heavy if you cant buy more fj?
Do you know Dropping Heavy? If yes, do you think it can be compared to Airborne Riflemen?

(Dnicee please try to look at the whole picture instead of just your doctrine)

Removing supression fire from airborne riflemen could be a way to go, but then the bar price would have to go down quite a bit for them. Nade price could go to rifle level too then. It makes sense in a way, supression fire is "spamming" bullets and its hard to imagine airborne dropping right into combat with thousands of rounds in their pockets.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_and_how_much_ammunition_was_given_to_the_average_Airborne_trooper_especially_the_6th_Airborne_during_the_D_Day_invasion

Here you go, I was right

i want tommy airborne.

Do you think it's normal for a bunch of dudes to be as good as the biggest tank in axis?


That's exactly the point. You should NOT be able to buy even more paras.


That solution has nothing to do with what has been discussed so far.

I want to say something, but this still might be off topic IDK.

No Flame Intended.

I agree 1000% with Detrian, the Player base on Eirr is just annoying!

The way everything is played, I see more and more people Copying each other, Like No-one is original in there tactics or strategy. another point is you guys exploit like mad men.

You guys sort of ruin it with threads like ..... AIRBORNE PLEASE NERF NERF NERF till the point that you made an excessive count of Threads repeating the same thing. This mod is created by EIRR ( and his devteam) not you whiney bastards who want it your way.   Still I would love to see you guys delelte threads that are about the same thing. I think i read 5 threads expecting something different but its the same every time.
oh and in response that that New player problem, I think new players should be given a type of like cooldown thing... They can't play level 8's till they have Stats or something like that? you know?/

like levels 1 Must play with other level 1-5, and must have at least 5 games before going on to play a level 8 Which infact in some sense Demonstrates a sense of realism, a commander would never fight without some expierence, The chief of the army wouldn't recruit a Private straight out of boot camp to lead a squad, no he needs expierence first.

You need to whine to get shit nerfed, if we didnt post then they'd think the game is balanced....

Not really, we all play the game ourselves :P

Yet if only you thought it was OP you'd ust think you were noobs and needed to l2p

nonconstructive whining hurts more then helps.

If it cost as many resources.

Now please stop posting, you are stupid.  :-\

.. moderators are going to have a fieldday on you guys soon enough!

Yep.  And locked.