COH: Europe In Ruins

News & Introductions => Updates & Announcements => Topic started by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 03:11:21 am



Title: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 03:11:21 am
Launcher Update 0.7.0b

Availability is now organised 'per pool' rather than per unit. Each player starts with an available # of units per pool, based on their doctrine decision. Every unit has a specific value that weighs in on this pool when purchased. When the pool of a certain unit type is full, users can still draw from the 'Reserves' pool, allowing them some extras. When the Reserves pool is out as well though you will have to pay PPs in order for you to be able to purchase more units of that type.

US
Quote
Next to each pool is the amount each doctrine has available in the pool by default.

In Reserve for Infantry/Airborne/Armour

Infantry - 28/28/20
Engineer - 2
Riflemen - 1
Airborne - 4
Rangers - 4
Airborne Riflemen - 3
American Officer - 3

Light Vehicles - 12/16/16
Jeep - 1
M3 Halftrack - 1
M3 Halftrack Quad - 3
M8 Greyhound - 3
Staghound (T17) - 3

Armour - 12/10/20
Crocodile Sherman - 4
M10 Wolverine - 3
M18 Hellcat - 3
M4 Sherman - 4
M26 Pershing - 8

Support - 18/16/14
Allied HMG - 1
Allied Mortar - 1
Allied Sniper - 4
57mm Anti-Tank gun - 2
Air-Drop 57mm Anti-Tank Gun - 2
Airborne Heavy MG - 2
Airborne Medic Team - 2
Airborne Mortar Section - 2
Airborne Sniper - 4
Howitzer - 4
Calliope Sherman - 8


Wehr
Quote
Defensive/Blitzkrieg/Terror

Infantry - 28/28/24
Pioneer - 2
Volksgrenadiers - 1
Grenadiers - 2
Stormtroopers - 3
Knight's Cross Holders - 3
Officer - 3
Terror Officer - 3

Light Vehicles -12 /12 /14
Motorcycle - 1
Schwimmwagen - 1
Axis Halftrack - 1
Axis Flammenwerfer - 2
Puma - 3
50mm up-gunned Puma - 3

Armour -12 /18 /16
STuG - 3
STuH - 4
Geschutzwagen - 3
Ostwind - 3
Panzer IV - 4
Panther - 6
Tiger - 8
King Tiger - 10

Support -18 /12 /16
Axis HMG - 2
Axis Mortar - 2
Axis Sniper - 4
Pak 38 - 2
Flak 88 - 4
Nebelwerfer - 4
Walking Stuka - 4


Brits
Quote
Commandos/Engineers/Artillery

Infantry -28 /20 /26
Sappers - 2
Tommy Infantry Section - 1
Tommy Recon Section - 1
Canadian Infantry - 1
Lieutenant - 3
Captain - 3
Commandos - 4
Piat Commandos - 3

Light Vehicles -12 /12/12
Commando Jeep - 1
Bren Gun Carrier - 2
Bren Carrier MMG - 2
Stuart Light Tank - 3
Tetrarch Light Tank - 3
Staghound - 4

Armour -12 /20 /14
Kangaroo - 3
Cromwell - 3
Cromwell Command Tank - 2
Sherman Firefly - 4
Churchill Crocodile - 5
Churchill MK IV - 3
Churchill Mk VI - 5

Support -18 /18/18
Vickers MMG - 2
Vickers Emplacment -1
2inch Mortar Team - 1
6pdr AT Gun - 2
HMG Commandos - 2
Mortar Commandos - 2
Commando Sniper - 5
17Pounder Emplacement - 3
25 Pounder Emplacement - 3
Bofors Emplacement - 3
Mortar Emplacement - 3
Priest Self Propelled Artillery - 8
Churchill Avre - 4

PE
Quote
Luftwaffe/Scorched Earth/Tank Destroyers

Infantry -28/28 /26
Panzer Grenadiers - 1
Assault Grenadiers - 3
TankBuster Grenadiers - 2
Assault-Flammen Grenadiers - 4
Luftwaffe Infantry - 1
Fallschirmjagers - 4
Fallschirmjager Tankbuster - 3
Fallschirmjager Veteran - 3

Light Vehicles -14 /12 /10
Kettenrad - 1
Armed Schimmwagen - 1
Scout Car - 1
Infantry Halftrack - 2
Armored Car - 3
Hotchkiss - 3
Hotchkiss Command Section - 3

Armour -12 /12 /20
Wirblewind - 3
Panzer IV 'IS' - 3
Marder III - 3
Hetzer - 3
Panther - 6
Jagdpanther - 10

Support -16 /18 /14
Support Scout Car - 2
Mortar Halftrack - 3
Light AT Halftrack - 1
50mm AT Halftrack - 3
Munitions Halftrack - 2
Vampire Halftrack - 1
Flakvierling - 3
Flak 88 - 4
Hotchkiss Stuka - 3
Hummel - 6

Game Fixes
  • Pak speed now corrected when moving in stealth.
  • Officers T3 Supervision Aura now works correctly.
  • Mark Target now has a proper spot on the UI.
  • Commando Emergency Exit fixed.
  • Sappers now only stay stealthed for 1 shot.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: sgMisten on August 22, 2009, 03:38:41 am
Whee for more flexibility.

Though just like to point out that under this current system and values, you can get 2 KTs, 2 Jagdpanthers, 3 Pershings etc etc without any penalty.

Which is actually a bonus for special / heavy unit users because they no longer cost PPs. Their loss on e.g. tank pool points doesn't matter because you'd run out of fuel before that is even an issue.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Nevyen on August 22, 2009, 03:55:18 am
Thanks for the pointer we are already aware but this is the 1st pass, now that it is in we can adjust so we will look to work that in.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Mysthalin on August 22, 2009, 04:02:48 am
Looks cool ^^.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Baine on August 22, 2009, 04:53:48 am
Great!


Officer supervise now fixed? :P (Not the T3, i mean the general supervise!)


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: BigDick on August 22, 2009, 05:02:30 am
marders should be support or vehicles and not tanks
and pe infantry availability should be more than 28

or fallschirmjäger/assault flammen shouldnt count as 4 and assault grenadiers shouldnt count as 3 because these units are way more crap than e.g. rangers or airbornes (thats why they are cheaper menpowerwise and you need just more of them cause of almost instantly death)


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: BigDick on August 22, 2009, 05:04:41 am
missing edith:

why are tommie infantry sections on 1 where grenadiers are 2? that makes no sense since tommies are way more survivable than grenadiers and take just half away from availability?


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 05:26:23 am
missing edith:

why are tommie infantry sections on 1 where grenadiers are 2? that makes no sense since tommies are way more survivable than grenadiers and take just half away from availability?
Because the other inf (semi-elites) are 3, compare to the 4s of the Allied.

The numbers arent hard and fast, so these are up for testing first.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: LeoPhone on August 22, 2009, 05:40:20 am
now with this new supply system, it would be handy to have the support units, tanks etc. all in the same roster.

like this:
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu238/LeoPhone/roster.jpg)

those colours are always there and represent infantry, support, vehicles and tanks. if you have to buy units in reserve the colour goes black, if you cant buy any of those units anymore they simply get a X trough them.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 05:50:43 am
Thats a good idea LeoPhone,
I might do icons rather than colours - as I have a colourblind friend who keeps yelling at me when I use colours ;p

An infantry man etc.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: BigDick on August 22, 2009, 05:57:43 am
missing edith:

why are tommie infantry sections on 1 where grenadiers are 2? that makes no sense since tommies are way more survivable than grenadiers and take just half away from availability?
Because the other inf (semi-elites) are 3, compare to the 4s of the Allied.

The numbers arent hard and fast, so these are up for testing first.

you cannot compare a 220hp assault grenadier to a 420hp airborne or 390hp ranger

the availability cost should be based more on unit cost because you just can and need to buy more of cheaper units that are not that survivable


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 06:12:13 am
I havent bigdick,

Assault grens are 3.
Rangers and AB are 4.

PE needs some tweaks.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 06:14:08 am
Actually, its not just you BigDick,

Myself and Unkn0wns PE companies need a bit of tweaking to work.
Whereas my Brit and AB company seemed fine.

Will tweak / play with the numbers in a few days following more feedback.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: BigDick on August 22, 2009, 06:20:13 am
ok but 3 is to much for such a weak infantry where tommies can be equiped with bren (for less munitions) and just own assault grens (cost just 1/3 availability) they own even 2 charging squads

or falschirmjäger they got 240hp and cost same availability as 420 hp airbornes (or compared to 325hp tommies they cost 4 times more)

but im glad to hear that you will think about changing something because afaik should the new availability system give you more flexible company builds but my 2 PE companies are (without changing anything) oversupplied by 8 and 10pp

and even changes to a company i actually dont want to play let me not spend all my menpower and munitions without oversupplying


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Baine on August 22, 2009, 06:24:47 am
Thats a good idea LeoPhone,
I might do icons rather than colours - as I have a colourblind friend who keeps yelling at me when I use colours ;p

An infantry man etc.

Yeah, it's really hard to tell from the launcher what unit counts as what.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 06:40:12 am
Thats a good idea LeoPhone,
I might do icons rather than colours - as I have a colourblind friend who keeps yelling at me when I use colours ;p

An infantry man etc.

Yeah, it's really hard to tell from the launcher what unit counts as what.
Yep, I'll add them sometime this week.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 06:41:30 am
Also, added in red negative numbers for extra clarity on how your PPs are spent.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: EIRRMod on August 22, 2009, 07:15:20 am
Also, added in red negative numbers for extra clarity on how your PPs are spent.
Aaaand, it looks more confusing.

Ah well, if anyone has some ideas on what would be a newbie friendly pool list =/


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Rudy-sanErik on August 22, 2009, 07:24:50 am
When add veteranci bonuses for 50mm HT ???


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Jazlizard on August 22, 2009, 07:30:45 am
It's not really confusing, although the red numbers aren't really necessary. I'm fine the way it was but, here is another idea since you asked.

What if it looked like this:

                     In Reserve
Infantry:  X/Y      (Z)
Vehicles:  X/Y      (Z)
Armor:     X/Y      (Z)
Support:  X/Y      (Z)


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Baine on August 22, 2009, 07:44:59 am
Leave the Red numbers, but then you gotta make the "In Reserve red" aswell so people know that its connected to that and put it a little further from the rest.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: mapleleafsnation on August 22, 2009, 08:18:50 am
Also, added in red negative numbers for extra clarity on how your PPs are spent.
Aaaand, it looks more confusing.

Ah well, if anyone has some ideas on what would be a newbie friendly pool list =/

A nice in-launcher tutorial with a sexy voice and buzzing effects!


I hate asking but when can we expect the boys AT rifle buff? I know the developers are aware, but I'm just eager to get a chance at using them effectively!


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Sixpack on August 22, 2009, 08:37:41 am
So what is about the stealth nerf to bonuses for playing special maps?
Too many people playing and lvling up too fast?


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Killer344 on August 22, 2009, 09:42:47 am
Damn, I'll miss getting like 40 pps for each played game then.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Armfelt on August 22, 2009, 10:05:16 am
It will be intresting to try these new availabilities. Hope there won´t be too much blobs of doom.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Champion on August 22, 2009, 04:34:11 pm
This might be one of my first posts, but I have been around since the oringal EIR. I usually stay away from posting but I feel the need to speak out about the new availabity system.

It looks like this new system has nerfed Airbourne out of existence. (Not to mention the last patch nerfed the shit out of them, rightfully so, and now I know of no other decent player that uses them.)

Previous to the new system, my company was (Note this was with nothing oversupplied, and I dont not consider any part of this make up spam) (ie never more than 2 ABs on the field at once)
5 AB
4 AB rifles
9 rifles
2 jeeps
1 sniper
2 engies
1 HT
2 AB at guns
2 shermans
1 croc
2 hell cats
1 wolverine

with the new system, this currently cost me 18 pp.

AB cost 4, ab rifles cost 3. The doctrine pretty much only buffs these units yet to just have the 5 and 4 squads that the old system allows puts you at 32 for inf, 4 over the 28 allowed.
Now, the choice becomes no rifles to recrew or no AB units which the vast majority of the doctrine buffs are made for. The previous 5 ab and 4 ab rifles was in no way spam. Yet now in theory you could have 24 rifles or 24 voltz no problem. (10 more than the old system allowed)


Additionally, 10 avail for tanks? That allows me to have 2 Hellcats and 1 wolverine. Thats it. Even if I use many Light vechile (which I dont currently like because of the muntions sinks that that are) I will still be floating around 400-550 fuel without fuel advantages.

Thus, there seems to be no reason to use AB at the current rates. The companies' hallmarks are limited to a degree where you will be out attritioned almost immediately or are wasting doctrine buffs on too few  AB units. Moreover, with only 10 available for armor, you float so much fuel its crazy.


I dont know if the current system is here to stay, and i understand that the number are going to be adjusted but at the current rate, this doctrine is simply limp, to be nice.



Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: LeoPhone on August 22, 2009, 04:41:01 pm
you dont really have support weapons. but thats just your choise to build ur company.
i have to say that a bit less rifles and paras might be better, but not that massive change you need now. this supply system is to stop spam.  right now all it does is not lething you build your company the way you want.
soon... all companies will be copies of eachother. thats not how you balance a game.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Champion on August 22, 2009, 04:53:55 pm
Leo,

I dont think copies is a good thing...

I know I lack support weapons but the fact that I can have 28 rifles is not limiting spam. Like I said 5 and 4 is not spam.





I think the problem lies at the 4 and 3 (not mentioning the waste of massive amounts of fuel with the current 10 limit on armor)

AB rifles are simply not that good. Granted i dont have raid assault yet, but they are too expensive to recrew. The bar costs the same but no suppress, stickes are great but I dont use them as they are 95 muni and I cant afford that for a disable engine.

Maybe reduce AB rifles to 2 (possibly AB to 3 but i understand that they are in-line with other elite inf.) Bottom line is I would never have choose AB rifles if it meant that just having the only amount of 5 ab squads and 4 ab rifles meant i was oversupplying my company and could not afford to have any rifles to recrew.

3 rifle to every 1 AB rifle is somewhat ridiculous. They cost 70 more, there bars dont suppress, harder and more expensive to vet up, 75 pp for the unlock, stickes and nades more expensive. For a little more life, ab armor, fire up and airdrop, which with ab rifles is not all that useful since the first sign of mp44s scares them off.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: AmPM on August 22, 2009, 05:12:40 pm
It would be nice if the units pool price was included so you could immediately see how you can fit stuff in.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: AmPM on August 22, 2009, 05:14:37 pm
Wait, your AB rifles run from MP44 squads? Seriously? Huh, mine used to just mow down anything that got close to them.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: DisposableHero on August 22, 2009, 05:18:45 pm
British Captains and Lieutenants seem to have excessively high pool value (3 - three times as much as tommy's) and 3 PP for oversupply.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Champion on August 22, 2009, 05:21:13 pm
AM,

I dont have raid assault yet and without supression, all you can do is run back to help. So airdropping them isnt really much of an advantage


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: pernik on August 22, 2009, 05:44:09 pm
Yeah, Suppresion Fire on AB's BARs are somewhat felt want. :/


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: AmPM on August 22, 2009, 05:44:33 pm
Well no, I would never airdrop any Airborne onto the field near the lines or behind them, they are too expensive to risk and you gain little from doing so even if it works out. They are best used as just line infantry.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: AmPM on August 22, 2009, 05:52:10 pm
PE needs lowering of Pool use on Assault Grens....its far from elite infantry.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: spinn72 on August 22, 2009, 05:59:22 pm
Armour needs a massive increase of availability.  With max fuel advantages i'm at -8, and before i wasn't supplying on anything.

Otherwise for armour you need to treat it the same as Infantry, and put basic heavy armour as 1, and then the decent armour at 2, special armour at 4 or 5.  You've basically doubled up on limits.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: CrazyWR on August 22, 2009, 06:09:21 pm
Actually, its not just you BigDick,

Myself and Unkn0wns PE companies need a bit of tweaking to work.
Whereas my Brit and AB company seemed fine.

Will tweak / play with the numbers in a few days following more feedback.


My PE company was fine, but my Armor company was in trouble...


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: LuAn on August 22, 2009, 06:09:39 pm
PE needs lowering of Pool use on Assault Grens....its far from elite infantry.

+1
FJ and Assault Flammen  also arent worth 4 points compared to other units.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: mapleleafsnation on August 22, 2009, 06:27:54 pm
Well it forced me to diversify my engineer company a bit, mainly to give up on some sappers in favor of support weapons. I used to only use one mortar and one ATG, now I have two of each and a vickers.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Smokaz on August 22, 2009, 06:32:36 pm
I think maybe elite inf should have its own pool with high cost so that getting more than 4 is cutting into your reserve.

Make it a 20p pool with each squad costing 5p, meaning that additional squads over this cuts into your reserve at a great rate since they are so good and surviable.

If the availability of elite infantry thus seems unfair, perhaps because some might consider airborne the best, fsj the second best, stormies with shreks and mp44s different in power and rangers something inbetween stormies and fsj, tweak these units instead of the pool so that everyone feels they are getting the same bang for their availability points.



Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Thepassenger on August 22, 2009, 07:21:24 pm
Hmm i like the idea, will see monday how it works out.

I was hoping something like this would come along.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: LuAn on August 22, 2009, 08:06:02 pm
If the availability of elite infantry thus seems unfair, perhaps because some might consider airborne the best, fsj the second best, stormies with shreks and mp44s different in power and rangers something inbetween stormies and fsj, tweak these units instead of the pool so that everyone feels they are getting the same bang for their availability points.

This! Do it with float values, e.g. Tommy infantry section should be 1.5


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Champion on August 22, 2009, 09:57:30 pm
I think maybe elite inf should have its own pool with high cost so that getting more than 4 is cutting into your reserve.

Well no, I would never airdrop any Airborne onto the field near the lines or behind them, they are too expensive to risk and you gain little from doing so even if it works out. They are best used as just line infantry.

Exactly

Without making this too much about AB rifles, I agree that they are to be used as line infantry, but at 3 pool points they cannot be used as such. And if they are included in elite infantry then it complete neutralizes they unlock.


To get back to the armor #s, 12 for inf and 10 of AB is just to little when shermans are 3. You simply float too much fuel and is wasteful. Especially when PE get 12, 12 for luft and SE and only have to spend on PIV IS, mauders and panthers (almost forced to get a panther to spend the fuel)



Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Thepassenger on August 22, 2009, 11:45:10 pm
so much for waiting till monday...i feel either reserve or the armor cap for defencive/ infantry docs. to be to high imo, armor can still be spammed with these docs.Other then that it feels like it good step in the right dierection.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Lemures on August 29, 2009, 06:07:16 pm
All the numbers should be increased for pools, I don't think 1-4 is a good enough range to count for different units.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Tymathee on August 29, 2009, 06:12:58 pm
they did change it, you're so late.


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: WinIsUP on August 30, 2009, 07:04:03 am
In SE, the ability "scorched earth", the anti-building off map, its spread is way too large, its totally fail becuase normally it fails to kill. It seems like a completely useless t2, its failed to achieve anything in my last 4-5 games.  >:(

anyone else feel this way?


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Unkn0wn on August 30, 2009, 07:48:34 am
It's not intended to kill units, it's intended solely to demolish buildings, denying your enemy their use.
But yes it should probably have a minimum spread rather than a short one, else there's not much point in using it.

(I've seen it used to great effect on churches and such though, even after the latest patch)


Title: Re: 0.7.0b
Post by: Mysthalin on August 30, 2009, 07:49:12 am
It's a god-awesome off-map that's intended for a heavily vehicle'd-up army ;).