COH: Europe In Ruins

allies blob stags.

allies blob tommies

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies blob

allies win

http://www.filefront.com/16506163/blob.zip

We did make some mistakes (I for example mistakenly had an LMG - instead of shreck - gren in my start) and lost a couple units stupidly but this replay still shows how retarded the game is at the moment.

Unbelievable you can get that many stags with skirts+MG and then also field a shit-ton of brens, rifle-nades, recon-squads and PIATs. With a firefly or two in support of course.


BTW - military intelligence for the motherfucking win lol

Yeah thats true, axis is getting raped by stags including meh :-[

Axis buys MG + mortar combination.

Allies blob


Allies die horribly.

Rinse and Repeat.

axis sets up hmg.

tommy blob rushes right in over road.

tommy blob uses riflenade + recon snipe spam.

allies win

That's the problem right there : you're a liar or just utterly suck.

Dude wtf? Sometimes I get the feeling you don't play at all.

This game is just another example of how storm shrecks fail (not being used by me) btw, which you utterly deny (quote:"shrecks are good at hitting light vehicles at close range"), and now you insist that MG42s will somehow magically survive a recon snipe, or rifle-nades to the face. Not possible mate. :/


Nevermind the fact that - OH SHOCK AND WONDER - it's quite easily possible to flank an MG42.

Cleaned. Discuss the replay or gtfo, seriously.

i simply repeated what my teammate said.

i checked the replay and what happend is that the rifle nade killed the hmg itself what made the other guys retreat.

and we had MGs and mortars all the time in that game. it did not work.

ATGs left alive and no MGs recrew'd

Recrew MGs destroy ATGs and life gets magically easier. I don't care what MG it is as long as it is a damn MG. No matter how much allies blob once I have a MG42 or .30 Cal or Vickers (u get Suppression fire with it!). The only thing I lose is armor spam

First off - I mentioned nothing of HMGs surviving recon tommy snipes - but you need 15 popcap to snipe the HMG down. Where's the rest of YOUR shit to take on his? Heck, just use a 3 popcap bike with your HMG and the recon tommies can't get close enough to snipe you.

Secondly - rifle nades, with their 5 percent accuracy at long range are pretty damn prone to failing at hitting stuff. If you do get hit by both rifle nades on your MG guy, it still doesn't mean you'll die.
Rifle nades deal 20-35 damage - so you'll need 2-3 nades to kill the MG guy(not necessarily the entire crew).

You'll have an awesome 1-in-400 or 1-in-8000 chance to achieve that - depending on how much damage the grenades do.

The MG itself has 300 health - you need between 9 and 15 rifle grenades to kill one. In other words - don't expect much out of a nearly dead MG.



At any rate - ending the discussion. If you feel there's balance issues, post them on the relevant board. But it would be nice if you quoted actual stats, rather than just your own experiences.

a) You only need to kill the front guy, then you can run in; by the time the MG42 has a gunner firing again you're behind it.

b) You expect MG42s to be at full health all the time? Or at 3 squad members? You're also forgetting the ability of rifle-nades to shoot over hedges and buildings (which are there on EVERY map).

Yes of course, a recon or rifle nade squad doesn't immediately mean MG42s are fucked. But you also can't say that to counter upgraded tommies you can just "get an MG42 and mortar"

Most infantry weapons have 35 range, the MG42 has 45. So it's logical to assume that in most engagements the MG42 will fire first. If the first guy is killed, the only chance of him being killed without the opposing infantry being suppressed is if the infantry are at long range. That's 12 seconds of walking the infantry have to do before they're actually behind your MG. I'm not sure on the exact time it takes for the men to switch on the MG, but it's far less than 12 seconds, I would believe.


This is what you call theory-crafting. When doing balance you assume all units are at full strength, as that's their state when they are bought. What if all the tommies are at 5 hp? The entire squad will die to one burst! The what-if's are just useless to the discussion.

I heard mortars are pretty good at doing that too, actually.

And why would you expect to always counter an upgraded tommy blob which costs more popcap and more resources than your mortar and HMG, anyway?
At any rate - this unit combination is simply great at tackling blobs - or at least severely damaging them as your other units finish them off. It's basic tactics.

(http://www.herrlihed.com/wp-content/2009/06/smiley-dazed_confused1.png)

nvm.

Marder range = 60
Firefly range = 55

So fail example there, try again.


It takes 12 seconds for the infantry to go from their max range (35) to behind the HMG. Not from the HMGs max range of 45.

An entire man sniped?! The line will never hold with one missing man! Preposterous!

Why do you think I proposed you use a mortar with the HMG?

Not much of a contradiction - you ARE expecting to completely wtfrape an entire blob with just two units - and albeit they are capable of severe damage(not necessarily without losses) - you still have more popcap and more resources to use besides these two units. Why don't you use them?

I give up. GG.

rifle nade too?

and the noob blobbers didnt even use rifle smoke.

they still raped everything.

Myth honestly first you say use mg and mortar to combat it then you say its not a good idea. make your mind up!!!!!

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/651/95internethighfiveau0.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/95internethighfiveau0.jpg/)

i believe Alohas holy "L2P" is needed here.

though i feel axis is so much more harder to play now. my playstyle just doesnt cut it anymore with p4s

When is leophone going to blob fixes and updates for his maps

I said use the MG and mortar, as they're good at crowd control - but still be sensible and don't expect to beat a blob of more costly and more popcap-intensive units with just them. That'd be just silly - you have other units and more popcap for a reason. I guess I could have been a bit clearer on what I meant, sorry.


Yes, riflenade too. Actually, the only infantry weapon I can think of that has more than 35 range is the LMG42, at 40 range.

why is there written so many bullshit and wrong informations nowadays in forums?

one writes 50mm puma kills 2 tommies a shot
the next one says 50mm puma is 25% more accurate against soldier armor than against infantry armor
then one tells us the lmg42 has 45 range

bullcrap

what are they thinking? are they even thinking?

As far as I know everything of that is correct. I've lost 2 Commando guys to 1 shell of a 50mm puma once, and their accuracy against soldier armor is .75 while it's .5 against infantry armor.

LMG42 indeed outranges other infantry weapons by 5.

because some people are either lazy bastards or talking bullcrap on purpose

(http://666kb.com/i/bjf5fujcvc03sncgn.png)
(http://666kb.com/i/bjf5geu5krznhaxuf.png)

and to shoot 2 tommis each shot would mean 100% accuracy and a good splash since a puma does slightly more damage than a tommi squadmember has health

ffs, why do you only have an hmg there anyway? And why in the world did a rifle nade, which btw, gets .50 accuracy debuff firing at anything in negative cover (so if hmg was in crater with yellow cover then meh, its 125% buff to acc) i dont see it destroying an hmg and then why is that the only thing you're whining about? Tbh, the only time blobing bothers me is when it's 2-3 players doing it opposite me and my teammates don't know how to counter it, other wise, i bring out my ostwind, hmg mortar, nebel, stug, lmg's, grenades w/e and just say "shoo" and blob runs away.

l2p leo and quit whining about everything ffs, all you do is constantly complain about game-play yet wont switch your style to accomidate.

?
i see enemy blobs light vehicles so get get a bunch of 50mm pumas.

but they fail. thats the whole point. there is no other hard counter.
exept for volks mine maybe, but mines are just unreliable.

you dont use 50mms to counter blobs, its still mg's that do that, or goliaths and flamers

anyways i also found the 0.5 modifier for the puma 50mm in corsix against brits, which is strange. perhaps this has been changed recently?

I have checked with omg, they still have the 0.75 and it being something from vanilla. Can't access my regular coh "mod" right now for some reason, but can anyone check what it is in vcoh atm

It was definitely at 0.75 last patch.

Perhaps accidental change?

50mm puma gun

acc
0.75 long
1 medium short

0.5 acc while moving


where do you find the actual armour stats in crosix?
like received accuracy while moving or penetration?

For moving accuracy - click on moving.

For specific modifiers versus specific armour types - target_table.

Penetration - penetration ;p.

ebps -> races -> axis -> vehicles -> sdkfz234_armoured_car.rgd -> moving_ext

i dont see received moving accuracy


target_table? i can only find type_target, type_target_action, etc etc. all useless

same with penetration. can you please be a bit more specific?

its different for each weapon vs the puma, so you'd actually have to go to a weapon you want to check and look at its accuracy vs the puma and penetration vs the puma.

and where do i find that?  ;D

bottom of the list on the left, theres something called weapons, thats where you can check how a weapon performs against a target

the EBPS only tells you the health, armour type, speed and used weapons of a unit.

If you want to check the weapons - look at the weapons tab, which is waaaay down in the bottom.
You'll figure it out eventually.

thx, its all clear now. i can find everything.

Perhaps I'm missing something...Stags get the .50 cal, the AoE to kill two Infantry in a single shot (happened multiple times in this replay), and took down those ATHTs in 3 hits so I'm guessing they aren't slouches against Vehicles either.

What would be their "con"? Do they cost a lot?

Now I'm a complete newb at EiR so this isn't feigned sarcasm, I'd genuinely like to know what the intended mechanic is to keep a player from using 6-7 Stags like we saw here.

Their con is that they can't beat panthers and p4's lol.

Their cost is moderate for an armored car, with a pop cap of 8, and high availability cost to prevent spam

They also have the armor of a stuart, so they get hit by everything.

That still doesnt mean that you shouldnt be careful around them. Allied light vehicles are no less potent in EIR and if your not prepared they will give you a thumping.

uhmmm.. they are? T17s don't have stun, stag's HMG has been noticeably nerfed, roos can't crush infantry and have a high casualty rate.... I could keep going I think lol.

They should have a high pool cost, but I think theyre still at 3 (instead of 4)

They've gone from wtfomgOP, to acceptable. Still potent.

As a matter of fact, Killer, the old stag mg pinned down a grenadier squad in around 3 seconds. I remember a game where 2 stags pinned 3 th squads in green cover before having anything damaged. The stag mg was changed for a good cause, trust me. For the t17, it was almost a button, but on a vehicle that could neutralize his only and one counter: medium and heavy-tanks. (Shall I remeber you all those games with an atg, a t17 and a panther, or will you understand what I mean?)

Now let's switch to the axis side:
They nerfed the G-wagon, and alot more than the stag.
They nerfed the Japg armor, now it's immobilised on 1 mine at full health. (Why woudln't they do that to pershing?)
They nerfed the Officer, it can no longer supervise tanks.
They nerfed the g-wagon again: The free Geschutzwagen MG changed to 50mu upgrade.


I'm not saying that those change we'rnt done without a good reason (except maybye the japg ;)), but if you are trying to say that light allied vehicles and tanks were nerfed, you should look at the axis side.

Honestly, this mod is biased towards allies right now. The only "proof" I got to affirme this is that I had a 11 wins 1 loss (Yep, even with OP ab and all) back in 0.06 and now, I can barely maintan a 1:1 win / loss ratio. Devs, however, said they would adjust as the docs were implemented. Let's hope they maintan this promise.

First of all is Jagd not Japg so uh....gtfo k?

Your dumb sentence tells me you understand shit from what he just said, kthxbai.

1 mine at full health all the time? what game are you playin

Staghound's AOE is tiny... The 50mm puma's aoe is more than 2x larger and the ostwind's aoe is 4x larger.  Plus the staghound's gun has a 9 second reload, where as the puma's gun reloads in about 5 seconds.

The MG is just a halftrack MG, it's no longer the rape MG from vCoH.

Staghound's main gun has a 2x dmg modifier vs certain PE vehicles, that's why it raped those ATHTs, that's going away next patch.  Once the dmg bonus is removed, the staghound will suck really badly vs all vehicles, instead of just half the vehicles.

Huh? You are talking to me like if I started an argument, which I didn't. I only stated that allied vehicles are less powerfull here than in vCoH (which is true regardless how bad/good/OP/UP the other units are).... read what people say before wasting so much time trying to argue for the sake of it.

They do not and I have plenty of replays where they dodge shots while stationary.  Granted axis vehicles r moving but they were still at close range.... stags are to survivable at the moment but if they nerf their gun damage it would be acceptable.....personally i believe fix the problem by giving tham smaller health. they shouldnt survive 4hits rear from piv and hetzer combined when at 3/4 health...its just retareded to be that fast and survicving that!

Dont pull the bias bullshit buddy.

The Jagd BUFF to armour type (FROM _Elite I believe) - meant it SURVIVES mines rather than getting an auto-crit like it used to.

GG can correct me if Im wrong.

Got beef son? you can gtfo to k?

Play nice guys

Uhh, no - it means that the jagdpanther has a tremendous 25 percent chance to get immobilised if it drives into a mine at green health. Why would your jagd be going up on an enemy without cheap, 1 pop minesweepers is beyond me - but still, it's a really low chance of getting immobilised.
It's also a buff, which SX ignores - the change allowed jagds to have a chance to get no critical from a sticky bomb at green health, instead of definite engine damage.

the point is stickies are predictable and mines are less predictable.

if you get stickied you can totally blame it on yourself. but if the tank that takes half the fuel of your battalion get's immobilized by a 15 muni mine... you get pissed off. simply coz you couldnt do anything about it.

I didn't know mines were uncounterable.

So? A person can micro his stickies and make sure you get stickied.
He can't micro a mine.

I guarantee you that in EIR jagds get stickied far more often than they get hit by a mine.  The armor change is a buff.

All you have to do is send a light vehicle or infantry ahead of your jagd, even a scout car would be sufficient to set off the mine and spare your jagd the pain.

only isn't it the best tactic to have you heavilly armoured vehicle on the front, with the weak ones behind it? since it's armour will protect all other units too.

And scout units like the scout car are meant to scout ahead and find mines.

Hell no.

Fast light units like scout cars are actually better.  They have epic dodge values which tremendously increase their effective hp, and they are dirt cheap so if you look at it from an effective hp/fuel perspective a scout car is probably 20x more durable than a jagd against ATGs.

Which is better? Have your heavy expensive armor take damage from ATGs, or have your light units dodge them?  Sure you might lose one every now and then, but that's why scouting units are so cheap.

This. Who cares if you lose a single scout car when it saved you two or more shots from an AT gun that could have hit your jagd instead - they're just WAY cheap.

It's also the reason why my ISTs have a swarm of scout cars around them in most cases (distract ATGs/HHAT so IST can kill stuff), or my hetzers are supported by IHTs with MP44s.

id so much rather have mines not wreck me, I can micro to avoid stickies, not mines...if I get hit by a sticky, its my own fault for screwing up, if I get hit by a mine, its bad luck(generally).  I shouldn't be punished for bad luck, just bad micro...

Then what are tellar mines?  Black cats born on friday the thirteenth? ;)

You're punished for not having tactical and/or strategic insight and/or not protecting your super heavy tank with a 1 pop 80 manpower minesweeper.

Well, unless it has a very recent change, the japg got immobilised at FULL health (In  4 times, I've seen it happen 3 times) by one mine,  so it still got the auto-crit (It does however help with stikcies). Before the change to armor, japg on a mine maked it at worse go down to damage engine when it was at full health. Anyway, also, I'm not saying the DEVS are biased toward allies. I'm only stating the fact, that based on my own experience, this mod is way easier as allies right now.

Hey SX23 buddy, its called 80 MP and 10 munis! Guess what that is, MINESWEEPERS! YAY, now you can clear those "OP" mines for 1 pop cap and keep that jagd from "Getting immobilized EVERYTIME"!

sharp, no other tank in the ENTIRE GAME gets immobilized from 1 regular mine.  Its absurd.  It needs fixed...

Tellar mines says hi.  They not only destroy engines, but they often one shot tanks like M10s.

like I just said, use minesweepers and your jagd will never hit that mine ;)

jagt with engine destroyed is about 1000 times more useful than a immobile one.

i prefer driving over a teller than over a regular mine when i'm in a jagt.

KTs do. It's an integral part to Super Heavy Tank balance - they're intended to act as units that only work in conjunction with other units - AKA when supported.

They may be shit on their own, getting immobilised on single mines - but when they're supported well they become scary.

Leophone - that is likely to do with allies not having any teller mines to use against jagdpanthers - don't you think?

Allies have jagds and tellar mines?  :'(

it's about the point how useless jagt is when immobilized.
dont u see??  --__--

As opposed to a sherman getting engine destroyed and losing 80% of its hp from one mine?

Or a M10 instantly blowing up?

Or a 2/3 hp kangaroo instantly dying and killing your two squads inside?

My point is tellar mines are far more dangerous than a 25% chance of getting a jagd immobilized.

I'd say it's more than* 25%, cause it happend on 75% of the time for me. Anyway, having a destroy engine japg would be way better. Japg is a tank hunter, it's perfectly suited to follow and kill a lone sherman. It's not like KT. I mean, unless your pio runs 3 times faster than japg and shermie can't kill them, well you're fucked. Anyway, I didnt want to start talking again about the japg, that's in another post.

Just like that, tellers are from a doc, and shermans cost WAYYY less than japg.

it really is 25%. check crosix yourself if you dont believe it.

but i do agree that immobilise on green health for such a high priced unit by such a cheap weapon is retarded.
maybe on red health for a tank with a turret... but

immobilization doesnt fit with eir anway. thats more something for blitzkrieg mod and men of war.


and about the teller thing. i said JAGT getting hit by teller. it has much more hp.

regular mines...focus.  Yes tellers are very powerful, they are also doctrinal and at least twice the cost of normal mines for half the number.  Thats not the point.  If Pershings got immobilized from 1 wehr mine, there would be a fix instantly.  Same if Tigers got immobilized from 1 ami mine.  Just because people think the Jagd is powerful is not a reason to completely fuck it over.

I think immobilized criticals should just be removed and replaced by destroyed engine, or atleast not be permament.

Does this mean a change would be made to the japg ;)?

Like we already did? Or did you forgot what used to happen when Tigers got hit by mines...

I forgot, but good point...

No we need tank crews that can run from the tank, much cooler

I would like this. You get no repairs. the Crew just bails from the tank and runs.