COH: Europe In Ruins

The pak 36 is one of two units unlocked by the t3 defensive ability called recomissioned weapons, most of you now the Nebel 280mm by now, however I feel due to the Nebels effectivness the pak 36 is not really paid any attention.

Ive been playing with loads of them, 6-8 in my companies and trying to get the most out of them. They are ostwind guns mounted in the pak38 gun, they honestly dont seem very good. The issues they face are several fold, some that seem intentional, others seem not intentional.

One of the issues is it cant move. I know right, obvious? with the ostwinds gun at range 45 though, as an anti infantry support weapon its not very effective, having limited range and limited mobility- this to me is one of the intentional limitations of the weapon, however it makes it pretty crap. I was thinking maybe it could do either either a range increase or a rate of fire increase to make it a bit more effective in this regard.

The second problem with the little thing is the one I beleive is probably intentional, it fires an ostwind shot, which is by and large very inaccurate, but due to a rather low scatter angle it still hits fairly often. However due to the pak36 being so low to the ground it hits any little bumps or bushes, all the time. This makes the weapon only useable on roads and open fields, which makes the weapon pretty silly to use most of the time.  I have no idea how to fix this issue.

thoughts on the little guy? fine as is? could be a bit better? already too good?

It's ROF seems a lot slower than the ostwind one to me, too.

The only true use I see in the unit is it's ability to take 4 or 5 AT gun shots and keep on trucking - which makes it good enough cannon fodder when you're also flanking with a tank. That being said - you could just get a non-unlock, cheaper mortar which will take out the AT gun without needing to act as cannon fodder.

they should give us something like mounted bofor on mobile platform...thing from saving private Ryan would be sweet  ;)

so 280mm was nerfed,and is not worth anymore...obvious reason for that t3 was 280mm,and 36 is nothing special,so yeah...45pp went down the loo...

maybe just make it like a boffers?, that would not suffer many of issues created by the ostwind weapon, and has a higher rate of fire that I think would make the weapon better.

what do people think of this idea?

Mystahlin uses them goddamn effactivlry with his 9 (280mm)

Thats nice but what do you think of the pak 36 and my idea's?

so that's around -8/10 oversuplly  ::) and zero other support weapons...

I have 8 of them. And to be perfectly fair - they're more or less so crap : any company can beat them without any kind of early preparation, utilising the most basic of tactics - not my fault people can't think creatively.

what? i think its working fine caus it rapes my inf when get in range...

which gun are you talking about? Because in my experience - neither the neb nor the pak are actuallly good vs inf.

pak36 makes a "no-fly zone" for infantry tbh. If your not killing infantry with this gun, you obviously do not have it pointed in the correct direction at any point while its on the field.


This was the original idea, the pak36 is the closest model we have to simulating a push-able bofors. the static bofors, with the stats that it has "right now" is too powerful to be pushable and redeployable. The ostwind gun is a good substitute.

Groundfire, we literally had 4 pak 36's shooting at a squad of airborne(first shot fired from ambush). Not a single shot hit in 3 volleys.
Also, one pak 36 had been stolen by the enemy. I merely charged a volks squad at it, and the pak was shooting throughout my entire charge. Only ONE shot hit - one that was fired when I was literally on top of the 36.

So yeah, the 36 isn't at all good vs infantry - not in our experience.

Well
I dont believe this first situation. Please make a video and post it here.

Judging from my experiences with this pak36, they are always the first gun I steal, and the one I avoid the most, because it is an ostwind gun and the pak36 is so durable.

I know for damn sure it evaporates rifles and rangers. Maybe you got some bad rolls?

I agree with Groundfire tbh, whenever I've used it, it really pulls its weight.

If you are talking about Pak 36 (t) ... (4 cm kanon vz. 36) ... so it's primarily a weapon invented in the Czechoslovakian Skoda for Czechoslovak fortifications. And it's (been) anti-tank weapons. Firing rate up to 35 shots per second and can be used cluster ammunition and anti-tank. Its biggest advantage was the possibility of mounting a machine gun, and scope vz.36. As you all know, had the caliber to 47 mm. I think he's right cadence (cadence Bofors has 130 rounds per second), but effective against infantry and light vehicles or armored shit (like Stuart or Stag) it could have been improved a bit and hiw weight is 325kg so a speed can littlebit UP ....
and if you put this little boy to Luft doctrine would by nice :D

(http://galerie.palba.cz/albums/userpics/10065/normal_puv_-_sa_-_1.jpg) (http://galerie.palba.cz/displayimage.php?pos=-6579)

I don't keep replays of every single game I play, sorry.
You can ask Louis to verify this happening - it's likely to do with the 0.35 long range accuracy modifier.


I can agree with you where you say it's durable - but it's way worse than the actual ostwind gun.

still,36 should be able to cloack...

dude, whats people wanting all this cloaking shit, we have enough of it, starting to be star trek with birds of prey and shit.

It can? and with the T2 - it can even move around?

Neither of the new units benefit from Doctrinal bonuses.
That was an inclusion decision so that we could evaluate them DIRECTLY based on their merit and not be clouded with doctrine bonuses. The 280mm nebel would be a good example of this

too bad the 36mm defo drives around cloaked when re-crewed by my volks, at least.

This unlock is at the same level as a Tiger or pershing, above calliopes. - what does it do that an mg42 doesnt do cheaper? and better? kill jeeps?. Point is it cant stop a rush, like an mg42 can- It could snipe a few people at range, if it could A) hit at long range and B) if people stood at the edge of its range and did nothing. If it needs to be made more expensive to be better then so be it, at least it will be worth bringing in its own right then, rather than a gimmicky overlapping same role lesser mg42.

I think you guys are both essentially right. The elevation issue he brought up earlier is the reason. I've had it attacking ground one time and every single shell landed half-way to the target, because of a small bump. It's a good weapon in the right situation, but the elevation/scatter issue completely breaks it under the right circumstances.

Its really not that had to camo a atg, or infantry or even a bunker or emplacements

The russians were even known to do it with airfields (they called it maskirovka)

Heck with some time to prepare for an attack, the Germans could even do it with Tigers

Does anyone know how to make it so the damn thing doesnt hit the ground so much? is there a small projectile model change or something that would work?

I only have two pak 36's in my company and one is vet 3 and one vet 2 so they're highly survivable and they kill. I really like them and if you use them right, you can keep one on the field for a long time if there's no artillery around lol.

But here's the thing, just like a lot of high tier units, the better the support you have around it, the better it performs, if you have a 36 + pak38 together, it'll prety much rape anything that comes it's wa.

People also miss out on the fact that it IS a flak gun, so it can also shoot at airborne coming down and with it being cloaked it can surprise even the most prudent AB commander.

Also, the closer infantry are to it, the more accuracy it has and if you are moving the gun, it can fire away right after you deploy it so it can get right back in the action.

another way to use it is in conjuction with an hmg, cloak the 36, put it on holdfire, let the hmg suppress, fire away with the 36, infantry are toast.

Also cuz it has the Flak gun, it can take on light vehicles, i took a stag down half health with one.

all in all I love the little gun, much more so than the 280mm neb even when it was OP i chose the 36 over the 280

I saw a staghound bounce 4 shots, drive behind it and kill the crew. its an ostwind gun, its not gonna damage an m8 much, let alone a stag. Even halftracks are gonna take 5-6 shots to get damage significantly.

From what I can tell its essentially entirley anti infantry, which is absoloutly fine, just wish it did its job a bit better.

The 280 suffers the same problem, due to not actually ever rolling a hit or miss roll versus anything it fires at - and it'll hit any irregularity in the terrain.
Just put them on at least a little elevation, and it'll start faring a LOT better.

I understand terrain being a big part of coh, and needing to adapt your tactics accordingly, but not to the point where something becomes nearly useless because some mapper decided it would be cool to have slightly bumpy ground.

then move it to where it's not so bumpy, same thing happens with other weapons and you compensate.

trust its' a very good weapon, i should make a game with me playing it i used it against a good couple of players and it pretty much helped me win the game against a bunch of tommy's and airborne. All i did was support it well. 2x shcrecks with it help to keep light vehicles from getting in behind it and some other form of AI against infantry, and let the long range do it's thing.

to answer the question, yes it's working as intended.

Didnt realised you designed it, thats good to know. What other weapon do you need to compensate for to such a degree btw?

Whatever the Pak-36 can do - an HMG42 can do better. For cheaper and less popcap.

And no, the Pak-36 is in no way "capable" versus light vehicles.

Schreks, tanks, 88, anything that fires a projectile can hit the ground if there is a hill in the way. I mean, how outrageous that you would actually need to consider the terrain where you fight! That would require some forethought and tactics!

Shreks, Tanks and 88s all have their weapons positioned conveniently higher than the 0.2metre height of the Pak 36. Tanks and 88s also happen to have an accuracy of somewhat better than 0.35 at long range, and they don't have a 0.75 modifier versus all of their targets.
All 3 of those weapons also have the luxury of actually clipping with the vast majority of their intended targets, unlike the Pak 36 - which's shells would rely entirely on splash damage(with a very low splash radius) to deal damage, even if the shell managed to fly in the direction of the enemy after rolling a miss.

still, its' meant as a support weapon, which means it can't operate on its own, just like a pak. the pak 36 is best on roads an yway so u can catch them in red cover, if u know the accuracy sux, then u dont put it somewhere where it will fire at people that will be in yellow or green cover.

oh and this thing freakin rox vs targets in buildings, great clearer.

Last game i managed to get my hands on one it dispersed allmost all of the axisis atepts to retake one of ther 88s its amazingly powerfull and threatning

Anti-infantry support weapons that are far more effective at said role :
MG42


Because good players consistently make every attempt to get on red cover with their infantry. ::)

Nobody even mentioned yellow or green cover. We're talking about units standing in the open.

I was not aware the 0.25 acc mod this weapon has versus garrison cover is so beneficial.

Lol myst come on u should know better, the thing has burst, so when it hits a house, eevn if it doesn't hit the unit directly it will still damage it, just like a nade or artillery or a tank hitting said house and with its rapid fire, it will hit the unit every time either directly or with burst, game play > stats.

I had a unit in a building and a capped 36 was firing at it and i didn't get it out just so i could see what would happen and it took damage with every shot, so u can't tell me that its not the game, and that they're not good units I use them all the time, are hmgs better in some ways yes, but the pak 36 has longer range, kills rather than suppresses and when it hits a crewed weapon (mortar/hmg) it attacks not just the infantry but the gun itself which i find rather useful.

Ill be making a video of it in my last 2 games tomorrow, since some people have clearly already decided what to believe before they even read what is written.

Tym the point myst is trying to make, and one I agree with is that an mg42 does everything the pak36 does, for 2 less pop, 70 less mp and 40 less munitions, and doesnt take a t3 unlock. One of the video's ill be making will demosntrate the awesome anti light vehicle potential of this weapon, doing about 25% damage to a bren carrier in 3-4 shots- a truely devestating weapon indeed.  The one exception to this is touched on by you in,  vs support weapons, I totaly agree- if anything this thing is 2nd only to a mortar and sniper at killing support weapons, its great at it.

I like to think I know what im talking about considering the pak 36, simply becuase I use more of them than Tym, Brn and Grenadier1945, combined. But I guess experience counts for nothing, hence the video's coming tmr.

This is why I wanted it to be a light PaK gun, but with an ability on timer to use Stielgranate 41.

Also give it PaK ambush bonus but lower base penetration. Do not reduce damage much, it needs to be effective vs light vehicles.

MG42s, BARs and .30 cals all have burst. None of them are good versus buildings. Burst is irrelevant to damage vs buildings.

And actually, the pak36 does NOT have burst.

If you meant splash damage - then it's still a no. With a meagre 2 splash and terrible spread, they will, most of the time, just suck versus garrisoned units.

Can't wait to try out the Pak36, it looks like a fun weapon to use. Will need a little more PP before I can get it though sadly.
Wish I had some input into this thread. Will love to see the video when you get it up dude btw :D

i should have it up today at some point, ive also got to make 1 with the terror sniper getting 3 kills in 23 shots so bear with me. im really hating on axis atm.

Not a problem dude, I'm going to be frank, I need 1/2 games to get the PP needed for it, so I MIGHT have it before the video, But I don't mind seeing the video nether the less :D
I want to see how "broken" it is, and is it being slightly exaggerated :P

Give pak 36 same stats as wirbilwind?

u mean ostwind?

the 280mm weapon itself hasn't been nerfed since its introduction. The unit was made more expensive but its lethality has been the same.

you guys are flops if you question the worthiness of the pak 36

and you dont consider pool 6 to pool 10 a nerf??  ::)

What? Listen to yourself, what you are responding to his statement doesn't make any sense.

increasing the pool cost of a unit doesnt justify it's OPness (or was it specificly broken when spammed and else not at all?)

I'm still of the opinion it was never all that OP to begin with - it's piss easy to take out. All you needed to do was reduce the speed so it's not faster than a sherman if with vet 3...