COH: Europe In Ruins

http://www.filefront.com/17829841/EuropeInRuinsBattle (2).zip (http://www.filefront.com/17829841/EuropeInRuinsBattle (2).zip)
Can you watch this and see why I lose?
I hold a flank alone and the others fight in the center.
I killed many things.
But they seem to have more.

the other team always has more.

Alright, let me hand it to you, the main reason why you lost is because you did not teamwork at all and your teammates played way to defensive.

There are also several more factors so I'll just start with your first call-in. You should NEVER start with a tank, the only exception is marderIII. Because even if you manage to get a few kills your still not fully using the tanks potential. A tank can do way more damage if you support it, which you can't do early in the game. And two AT guns on the field at the same time is good but only if you keep one pretty far behind the other so they can cover each other. When you have AT guns you don't need more firepower, you need protection.

And then there's your teammates playing too defensive, even when they scouted and saw only ONE mg covering two sectors they had to throw artillery at it. This allowed the axis to focus most of their main force on your side while defending the other side with a few screeners.

About teamwork, this is even more important if you have less territory, you need to help your teammates push through, after that you can focus on other sectors. Teamwork is key and attacking alone is never a good idea. This does not mean that you should attack in the same direction as they are. Instead you should have flanked their support weapons on the right flank.

Now to your infantry, you have way to few BARs, if they are recrewing infantry then you only need one squad. BAR riflemen are the backbone of the US army. Your teammates did not do this well either, scotzmen is a master of non-combined arms. He has two rifle nades at all times. So he has nothing against vechicles. Furthermore he never uses rifle smoke and most of his piats were in the start.

You never use BAR suppress. It's really good but it's no counter for assault. If assaulted run towards them or away from them, never stand still. Cover your infantry and assault won't be a problem.

Another thing is that you play armor company but still you have no calliope, no pershing, no at rifles, no assault engineers, no mark target, no T17, no quads, no phosphor strike, no calling it in, no extra repair kit, no bike, no sniper, no mg, no mortar and probably more.

Your team has a lot of AT guns but not much else. No firefly until it's too late and no brens or piats. An important note on m10s is that they are useless alone. Always use them in teams of two otherwise they won't do any real damage but if used correctly and supported they can take down tigers. You also have a AT guns on the front lines unsupported, if you can't support them then back them up.

Mines. Your team never used mines or minesweepers. Not good. Minesweepers are the key to winning against kiwi (kwiatekkek). Keep one minesweeper and his 800 munitions spend on mines will be wasted.

Sorry if I sound angry, just trying to help you out, you did not play great.

hey look some advice for me... :D

I can honestly say I have never seen a successful tank start, but if you have then maybe you could enlighten us.

P4, HMG, Pak Gren LMGx2
P4, HMG, double shrek storm, 1 pio = flame+mine, 1 pio = mine
P4 HMG, Shrek gren, 1 pio = flame+mine, 1 pio = mine


IST, 50mm HT, InfHT + Assault gren + tankbuster
(Scorched earth doc)
IST, 50mm HT, InfHT + flammen + tankbuster

Sherman 76, ATG, Bar rifle, Flame engineers + mine
Crocodile, ATG, Bar rifle, zook rifle
Sherman 76, Rangers full package, HMG, Mortar

Firefly, 2xbren squad, Vickers
Cromwell, ATG, Vickers, Bren

Too name a few..

Also, sometimes unleashing a double P4 start can just stomp the enemy when used properly to flank and destroy their forces.

Same for Shermans/Croms....

precisely.

A sherman and an atg is a fierce combo no matter when its played

WHAT IS THIS?

enkk has seen firsthand the power of the p4ist start. It's the follow up that eludes me...

I'd love to know what you'd do with an AB + raid company, a Blitz Lightning War + Blitzkrieg company or a Luft Fortress Europe company! Starting with 31 pop as AB allows you to bring on and support 2 shermans, which ALWAYS works. Luft Fortress Europe lets you start with 2 Hotch stukas which will last the whole game, or easily fit in an IST in your starting column.

And Blitz LW + Ostwinds or Pumas is just unbelievably good.

I just played in a game today where myself and my ally started with Ostwinds as Blitz with LW, we had full map control in four minutes!

To be fair; you and your teammate were vets who went up against 2 relatively noob allies. But yes, ost lightning war start is epic.


btw, best part of that replay was when the vet 3 nebel killed itself. 

"tank starts sux" <----wtf is this noob?


as wehrmacht its actually the safest option to start with a p4 to be prepared against all this lightvehicles

if you don't got a p4 or ambush storms to protect you pak you can say GG after 3 min because your entire core got trashed by 2 stags 2-3 m8 or something

as pe similar...the IST may be not great without the scorched earth T3 but it helps to protect your stuff against rangermobs lightvehicles and even tanks because it can block and take damage while your 50mm is picking them off


as allies you can start with a tank too but in most cases a light vehicle is a better option (because the allied light armor >>> axis one and can handle infantry and in some kind even support vs. tanks)

On a side note: 1x M10 with proper use of micro can defeat majority of Axis medium armor ALONE.

It includes these tanks:

P4
Tiger
StuG
P4 IST

All these above a single M10 can handle without taking any damage back.

Thanks for the advice.

Mysth + Keeps dual pershing start.

Good times.

Tank starts is win if used correctly, that I know myself.

No tank start still sucks. Let's look at this replay, their shermans got like what? 1-2 kills? that's not worth it. The Tiger only got a lot of kills because they never even tried to counter it.


This is also the entire reason why a tank start would work. If you play against new players that pzIV can probably get more than 20 kills but not against a more difficult opponent.

You are likely to face tank reaping combos like
bren carrier + bren lmg + piats + atg + more
schreck storms + pak + more
50mm + marder + shreck halftrack + more
halftrack + rifle sticky + atg + rangers + more

So let me rephrase: I have never seen a successful tank start against any average player. I have however seen many against noobs but that would also require some micro.

Did i talk about this replay? no? i talked tank starts in general :P

If your lucky you wont meet all the things you sum up, if the other enemy has a wierd callin you may be lucky and just drive over the whoole start, like Nug did to me by his stags. Light tank ;D

This thread is about this replay and tank starts in general.

Yes how you use it is important and so is micro. But that's only so much you can do. If a player really sets out to counter your tank then it's not likely to survive more than the first two minutes.

In any case, tank start is nothing I would recommend for a new player like rifle.

Light tank spam is not a normal strategy and they have been nerfed pretty bad. You don't need a Medium or Heavy tank to counter this strategy. A few fausts, mines, storms or extra atg works well.

I have seen so many tank starts fail and so few actually accomplish something. Most of the time the tanks got 1-2 kills for the cost of maybe a pershing or something equally expensive.

tiger + pio spam with goliath works well

i have used that a couple times it rapes,
i have seen 2 upgun shermans destroy start callins

helps to have some doct buffs to benefit from.

having a churchill with an command tank and an atgun by its side with a piat squad and a bren mg car is an exelent way to combat most starting spams that the axis might trow at you ofcourse it wont make exxelent aggressive start but it makes the possebility of fighting wolks with panzer fausts quite hard but not imbosseble due to that they penetrait every time and sence the command tank cant crush you wont be able to run away from it but with the command tank and tank shock makes the churchilll an allmost 1 shot kill hit on inf but but fighting KCH is still annoying as hell due to the faqt that they dont suppress my tankshock.

And I can say the same thing, I've probably seen about 1000 churchill starts fail more than I've seen any of them actually do something. So unless you have any actual evidence like a replay, stop making useless replies.

Removed trolls

my old crommies starts often ended well if not okay

Well, I always thought the whole point of a tank start was for the extra mobility so you could rush the opposing team. In this replay they didn't quite stick together and rush one spot, they went about halfway across the map in front of their respective spawn points and... stopped. Any aggression seemed half-hearted.

But that makes or breaks any start really... How aggressive you're willing to be. With a tank start it's easier to take the initiative and hit those weak spots, but it does take a fair amount of skill/micro. I guess it basically comes down to personal preference. And, of course, how communicative your team is.

Alright, let me rephrase again.

Tank start is a huge gamble, it's very risky and most of the time it fails badly. It still doesn't suck however, I just don't personally like it, especially not heavy tanks. If you think it's a good idea then fine

It can also be noted that this strategy works better in larger games, 3v3, 4v4 etc.

But most importantly it's not something I would advice a new player like rifle to do, like this thread is about.

His croc got 2 kills and I'm 100% sure starting with a quad or mg would have been better in his case.

why should anyone start with a crock?
those things are expensive and the pop is huge and it requiers alot of support to work properly.

Double Stormie + Panther used to work well, havent tried it forever though.

Also, Tiger + Mortar + PaK was fun if your teammate knew ahead of time.

Dual P4/Sherm/Crom/Church probably works most of the time, just expect their next callin to be heavy AT.

sherman (churchill armored in eir) crocs as in the replay?

they are pretty good because if you face a tank start hater like ponyslaystation you could steamroll him because shreks and a pak is not on the list of hardcounters to it

and its 200fuel 10 pop only

croc+atg +2 rifles = win against wehrmacht without tanks in core

l2p as wher maybe?

i usually don't play wher (ok i consider playing wehr again and played about 1 game last month as wehr) but my crocs in my armor company did quite impressive

jeeze all those can be countered by a tank start
and wth who is gonna start with 50mm, marder and shrek. push up atg and get your infantry to screen with your tank supporting your ATG. stop playing dumb

A tank can not counter any of those. A tank is severely less firepower than having more units.

It doesn't have to be in the start, it's a 5 pop unit.

Marder and shreck start is probably the most common start call-in there is.

So no, your reply doesn't really make any sense. At all.

Playing dumb? Yeah I'm very dumb for thinking that tanks and snipers need support to work, I mean why use combined arms when you can solo everything with your tank, Yeah I think not.

so you are playing dumb cuz i never said anything about soloing with tanks

(http://thefacepalmfiles.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/083-pedobear.jpg)

That's exactly what you said. Tank start leaves you 9-14 pop. That's a lot right? an entire army right there, you only need a few engineers to support your tanks right? I mean why have more when I can have less?

And stop fucking around with pedobears.

a 10 - 12 pop unit that can counter

1) tanks
2) Infantry
3) LV

everyone else has already stated in this thread that tanks work
you know what, stuff it, we know your wrong. get over it.
from the wise words of bigdick, l2p skill less nub

You know you talk a lot, but do you actually play this mod? When you do you don't really amount to anything so that's why you come here and make these ridiculous statements right?

A 10 pop unit that can counter both infantry, tanks and light vehicles. Which tank is that again? Oh wait there is none.

Have you even seen the replay? one of the major reasons why they lost was because they started with tanks. Or even read what I wrote before? Keep on topic will you?

l2p? yeah that's funny stuff, you can say that when you beat me.

Hetzer with amazing main gun, MG and armour.

M10 with amazing main gun and mobility.

Both 10 popcap.

You're looking at one single replay where the players using the tanks are far from the EiRR average. Good players find excellent use out of a tank in their starting callins. Look up "Burning Church" shoutcast for a double croc start (sherman crocs, not churchil) that actually did pretty damn amazing - especially considering it went up against a very heavily mobilised PE start.

Credibility = 0

dont bother with him he knows nothing

Hetzer is not a very good tank, so it doesn't fit any of those roles. It's also limited to tank hunters.

M10s can only run over infantry, sacrificing themselves while doing so. Starting with two m10s might work but not one.

hetzers is a rape tank,

u catch inf on the road with m10 bb inf lol

double p4 with blitz, rapes callins

epic bull, starsnake

ty
btw, what's your conclusion?
PS2 doesn't like armor core
but others like it

well by the looks of the last game u played u saw what amour core can do...