Title: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: pqumsieh on February 01, 2011, 10:55:34 pm At the moment, these weapons are available to both british and american infantry. They have very poor penetration against Wehr but do exceedingly well versus PE minus the P4 IST, Panther, Hetzer, and Jag. Overall, they are a fairly cost effective purchase so long as you know when to call them in and how to use them.
My concern is in regards to their ability to easily counter weapon crews namely PAKS and FLAKS. They take 3-6 volleys to kill either of these weapons making them cost effective pretty quickly. On top of their other light AT capacities, this puts them way over the top. The only other handheld AT weapon capable of doing this is the Airborne RR rifle. In contrast, these rifles are 180 munitions but can also fight all forms of armor as opposed to just light armor. My recommendation, find a way to reduce the damage or accuracy of these weapons versus guns if possible, but maintain their current light AT capabilities. If this is not a possible solution, a price increase ought to occur. PQ Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Killer344 on February 01, 2011, 10:57:14 pm Already slated for next patch.
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: pqumsieh on February 01, 2011, 11:18:48 pm how is it being addressed?
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: LeoPhone on February 02, 2011, 01:36:07 am how is it being addressed? damage of the boys can be lowered vs only heavy weapon teams easy. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on February 02, 2011, 02:51:19 am yea its quite annoying when a boys squad gets behind a hetzer for the damadge from those things is quite big for some at rifles but my assult grens most of the time just take them down before they do any real damadge.
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: PonySlaystation on February 02, 2011, 05:03:26 am The problem is that they can kill an 88 in two seconds and a pak in less than that.
I also think that they are too expensive unless they are used for this exact purpose. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: nugnugx on February 02, 2011, 05:43:12 am I also think that they are too expensive unless they are used for this exact purpose. Did you even read previous posts ? they are getting nerfed not buffed Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: PonySlaystation on February 02, 2011, 05:47:59 am Yeah, but only the damage to flaks and paks.
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: nugnugx on February 02, 2011, 05:56:55 am so? your post still does not make sense.
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: PonySlaystation on February 02, 2011, 06:11:04 am They are very expensive, so unless you use them extremely well or use them to destroy paks they will never make up for their cost.
I just think they are a little too expensive that's all. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Mysthalin on February 02, 2011, 06:15:29 am They completely shut down most PE builds as it is?
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: PonySlaystation on February 02, 2011, 06:25:30 am No, most PE vehicles are faster and have longer range than AT rifle squads
But I don't wanna start a whole balance discussion on something I don't think is broken. Then again most handheld AT is expensive, it's a shame too, you rarely see a grenadier with a shreck anymore. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Mysthalin on February 02, 2011, 06:27:25 am Ok, so which PE vehicles are effective against infantry and have longer range than AT rifles?
The Armoured Car? That's pretty much the only one I can think of. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: smurfORnot on February 02, 2011, 06:29:25 am spam LATH,hahahah
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: nugnugx on February 02, 2011, 06:34:32 am spam LATH,hahahah i'd post your signature but this is the balance forum :P Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: PonySlaystation on February 02, 2011, 06:35:10 am I did not say effective btw.
Armored car Mortar 50mm LATH Scout Car Infantry Halftrack Pretty much every vehicle is faster and has longer range. So unless they sit in a building you can usually get away without a scratch. The infantry halftrack and scout car don't have a much longer range but they can suppress. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Mysthalin on February 02, 2011, 06:48:07 am If the rifles get into 35 range (both range and sight of the ATR squad, and sight of all of the units you listed) - NONE of those vehicles is capable of reversing back out before the rifles pop off a volley. Unless of course, the vehicle was moving backwards in the first place.
IHTs do not properly suppress at anything beyond short range and the Scour Car can not move if it wishes to suppress. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: smurfORnot on February 02, 2011, 06:49:46 am and what pony,your sugestion is just to keep moving back,until enemy has majority of map? lol
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: BigDick on February 02, 2011, 06:53:36 am yeah and he should try that with a marder
one click that is a micrometer of a its straight direction back and it turns slowly around like a moron not moving backwards anymore Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: smurfORnot on February 02, 2011, 06:56:37 am nah,that's not completely true,marder sometimes does move backwards,and doesnt always get himself dead because driver rode a bicycle before he got in marder ::)
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: BigDick on February 02, 2011, 07:26:06 am as long as they don't turn 1 mm they can move as i said if you extend its gun trough a virtual line in your mind than it'll drive backwards as long as your not clicking 1mm away from that line
otherwise it tries to turn and stop movement and a new order will fuck its pathing Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: NightRain on February 02, 2011, 09:58:07 am as long as they don't turn 1 mm they can move as i said if you extend its gun trough a virtual line in your mind than it'll drive backwards as long as your not clicking 1mm away from that line otherwise it tries to turn and stop movement and a new order will fuck its pathing Marder moves kinda like a StuG does... Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: BigDick on February 02, 2011, 11:09:16 am how can it with a much slower turning rate and a much smaller object box?
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: NightRain on February 02, 2011, 11:45:12 am how can it with a much slower turning rate and a much smaller object box? The driver likes to do the same things StuG driver does. He'll go over speed and stops very slowly if accelration is on max speed. He'll turn slowly without a road in general etc. He wants to turn to drive forward instead of backward. Those sort of things Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Tymathee on February 02, 2011, 12:56:08 pm uh, luft gets 'em too...i dont even think the Brits get 'em anymore only Armor and Luft have Boys AT now.
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: smurfORnot on February 02, 2011, 01:07:02 pm but fact it that allies get more use of them,since they are very effective against whole faction,unlike if u take them with luft,your enemy has to have stag/T17/m8/bren or else they wont do much...
Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: pqumsieh on February 02, 2011, 01:13:07 pm I do not think countering Boys AT rifles is difficult either when playing against the Americans. They come on riflemen which are terribly weak infantry that can be taken out with almost any form of AI. One MG will prevent forward movement of a boys squad; or an assault squad for that matter.
Ironically, with the current changes boys AT rifles will be most similar to bazookas...which come on a notably stronger platform and cost 10 munitions less. Perhaps this nerf should be accompanied with a slight price reduction. Considering the platform, penetration, and damage of the boys AT rifle (lowest out of all other forms of AT) I think a price of 50-70 munitions for the RIFLEMEN platform is fair. In contract, the Tommy platform should be around 75-85 given their greater survivability. On the other hand, we could slightly increase their damage or penetration and maintain their current cost. Bottom line: they will no longer be cost effective at their current 90 munition cost on riflemen. PQ Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Killer344 on February 02, 2011, 06:01:26 pm how is it being addressed? 0.6 damage modifier vs 88s and ATGs. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: BigDick on February 02, 2011, 06:04:02 pm and what is about completely anihilating PE?
that is way more imbalanced than killing ATGs and flaks they should penetrate marders not from the front to often Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Groundfire on February 02, 2011, 06:05:13 pm and what is about completely anihilating PE? Opps, forgot to tell you all that the rifle is technically an AT weapon designed for killing light vehicles. My bad. Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: BigDick on February 02, 2011, 06:06:27 pm Opps, forgot to tell you all that the rifle is technically an AT weapon designed for killing light vehicles. My bad. yeah a cheap never missing spamable AT weapon on a mainstream plattform to kill a complete light armored based faction especially their AT (marders 50mm HTs) not forgetting that they are comming in the doctrines with tanks PE can't reliable penetrate anyways (armor pershing, RE churchills especially the croc) Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on February 02, 2011, 06:07:03 pm Opps, forgot to tell you all that the rifle is technically an AT weapon designed for killing light vehicles. My bad. shit happens Title: Re: [AM] Boys AT Rifles Post by: Tymathee on February 02, 2011, 06:42:55 pm but fact it that allies get more use of them,since they are very effective against whole faction,unlike if u take them with luft,your enemy has to have stag/T17/m8/bren or else they wont do much... they also do well against m-10s and m-18's, stuarts, tets, firefly's (cuz they're so close, easy to get behind/side) |