COH: Europe In Ruins

I'm aware that the Warmap will be bringing Attack and Defend game modes back into it, however... Could we have Attack and Defend re-enabled while were waiting on the Warmap? They would make a nice change of pace, and perhaps encourage a bit of different gameplay on different maps.

This has been mentioned by various people left right and centre, but I thought I'd make a suggestion post so other threads dont get hijacked.

Nothing's stopping you guys from playing them.

I think the technically the modes are a bit wonky, but if you choose it, one side is going to attack and one side is going to defend. (i just dont know which)

I put a 3v3 on R+ once and all I got was infinite rage once inside the game :(.

Just make it random again.

everyone wants to do ME, its hard to get a game otherwise, people are comfortable with it. Before ME, R+ was all the rage.

Make it random and make the game about skill.

It's an EIRRmod thing. We cant just change it unfortunately.

R+ was the shizzle. Bring it back.

bug with attack/defend atm is this i think:
attackers get to defend while getting the attack messages and extra pop.
defenders get to attack while getting the defend messages and no extra pop.

so if there is a stack,make other side attackers,this way weaker side will get a bit more advantage,it wont help em in the end probably,but they will certanly have easier start ;)

problem is stackers aren't nice people.

Just in case u blokes didnt realize it. Attack is much easier to play. Instead of spreading ur units across the map u can just triple one guy. While defenders have to spread out Tbh i love attack games. And after 5 mins the defenders are on the attacking side

Btw how bout a challenge. I still got 2 hours. Hold the line for 10 minutes
Update:Time wont matter

The difficulty of attacking depends on two variables:

How many offmaps you have.
How many on map artillery pieces you have.

That is all :).

Breaking ATG walls vs 3 americans isn't an easy feat. It's easier to attack if you're on the allied side as PE are generally bad at holding the line due to lack of support weapons.

Ever faced 4 pz4s rollin in backed up with paks mortars and flamers?
good luck with ur defense

people have that much pop for 4 p4's AND multiple paks, mortars, and flamers?

All you really need when you attack is smoke. That is it

3v3 & 4v4, yes, 2v2 nope.

and i think now PE could be good defenders. Luft and SE both have some better static options than before and with the mobility of the 50mm, if tanks start hitting somewhere, it's a lot easier than a pak or 57 to switch and attack. same with an iht

people still haven't recovered from the old eirr and realize that pe is one of the stronger sides now especially SE. No one plays luft much anymore cuz no more phase armor.

r+ (3 m8 start or something) and attack/defend (hint hint 10 firecracker ketten and 5 munition minefield HT start) are top game modes for gimmick companies
 :D :D :D :D




muhahahahaha

This is why we need to bring back attack/defend - random only matches. Firecracker and mine spam will be great if you are defending, but if the coin flip makes you attack, you become a weak link on your team.

It would force people to build non spam companies and learn to fight with strategy and skill.

why would mine spam be weak link in chain? it's not like u need to call it if you are attacking...

You're, right. Bad example.

If you never know if you are attacking or defending, you would need to create a company capable of both. This would mean, more often than not, you would need to build a more balanced company.
You could try and go for a gimmick, but more than likely that gimmick is only going to work with one or the other. So your chances of winning are cut by 50% before you even start to play. ( assuming equal random attack/defend )

Everybody is asking for more variety in the game. This option is the easy answer. Every match you must adapt your play style to the conditions chosen at random.

Can one of you Clarify what a 'Balanced Company' is?

All I keep hearing "I run balanced company!" "You should have a balanced company!" but I have no clue nor idea WHAT a balanced company IS!


There are no balanced Companies in EIRR that's what it is. You have 6 Shermans, its your armor themed company: Sherman spam. You run tons of rangers and your coy is elite infantry based. Ranger spam. You run a infantry company with heavy ammount of infantry and support weapons etc. Roflspam.

Honestly, spam company can deal both. Defence and attack. Volks and Stugs, rifles and M10s. Everything are good in defence and attack. StuGs and volks for example: Offensive power, Defencive power. Is there much of a difference will that build stand still or attack other than penalties in accuracy etc. In short: 'Spam' company has equal chances in standing on ground like as in attack.

no spam = eirr will die

At most times there are less than a dozen people in the launcher. ( weekends are an exception )
I would not say EiR is dead, but something needs to change soon if it wants to be any thing more than a very small group of enthusiasts private play ground.

well thats my theory.

i believe in theory, if there was no spam, every company would be similar and it will become boring

OR, the better option. Attack when attacking, attack when defending. There is no reason you should be happy only having as many sectors as you do.

eir needs updates and all factions.

We just need EiRRMod :P

None could answer the question what a 'balanced company' really is?

Thought so.

Balanced Company = Able to fight AI and AT threats.  Problem solved.

Some companies are impossible to be 'balanced'.  Example my US infantry or any infantry player for that matter, with the major nerf to TR I would never use US Inf to counter armor unless it was a swarm tactic.

My US is strictly AI, and it deals solely with killing infantry based threats while I let a much better player do the AT game.

With my brits, its hands-down the best anti-armor company I ever ran, close to my old TR company or my minespam company.  Sucks super balls against infantry though, and is REALLY tight on infantry squads that can't go toe to toe with most german infantry squads if they have any decent AI capability.

My Wehr company I would consider the most balanced.  30 squads of Grenadiers, 11 shreks and about 15 LMGs (and all 30 grens with medkits and Elite Armor), 2 Tigers with double repairs and a Panzer 4 counters all threats well enough for me.

not your company, gtfo, it's soooo OP I can't fight it hax!

But I play axis! Nooooo! =*(

My StuG/Volk company does the same. It counters both armor and Infantry.


So According to Lionel's theory Mysthalin's 28 volk company is a balanced company because it has both the AT and AI.

Lionel having both AI and AT is so called balanced company? That doesn't really make any sense

6 AT guns 2 HE pershings 5 M8 a bunch of rifles with bars

balanced - enough AT and enough AI

bring it on i would love to fight that with my croc / m8 spam company  :D

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your definition.

Technically it would, and that was why the faust nerf when it because it was too effective against infantry and tanks, lol.

And as everyone who is listing their companies, they're all pretty balanced, so as Tank130 says, why don't you tell us what a balanced company in your mind is?  There are no mirror untis, so an MG/mortar is way, way more effective under germans than it is under allies, as well as allied armies being more infantry-focused than axis-armor companies... so please enlighten us.

I think the concept of a balanced company has more to do with peoples views of your composition within the constraints of your available units and reason.

Similar to the Composition score used in tabletop wargaming.

So a company that is made up of 2-3 unit types is not a balanced company, whereas a company with 5-7 is.

To illustrate, a spam company of only Volks and STuGs is not a balanced company as far as composition goes. However a company with Volks, Schrek Grens, HMGs, Mortars, PaKs, STuGs and P4's is.

It is also more interesting to play with and against.

Perhaps, but my point I think would be if we went down that path of restricting company builds and forcing you to field units, we'll need to introduce mirror balancing, because there is no way I should be forced to waste resources on useless US MGs and Mortars and to a lesser extent ATGs; whileas if I were British, my entire army would compose of Vickers as it is hands down the best allied and hell best MG of any faction with instant suppression.  Also, the Wehr mortar does crazy suppression and has a longer range than the US mortar (which has terrible accuracy due to shorter accuracy ranges, as well as not having suppression).

That would be the only solution I see if we went this path.

Fallacy.

US Allied company with none of those but with a few different units.

Riflemen (various equipment), 57mm, Sherman, M10/M18, M8, Quad, Sniper, Jeep, Engineers, Croc.

The US HMG is not that bad, the low cost makes it competitive, the US Mortar works well if used aggressively in support of the infantry, not passively like the Wehr mortar.

Back up the bus there sparky!!!!!!

Nobody has come remotely close to suggesting that in this thread. We are discussing the merits of forcing attack or defend on a random bases. If you don't know if you are attacking or defending, then you need to build a balanced company that can handle either situation.

This in no way restricts you in your build. Unless of course your company is only good for one function and lacks depth of imagination.

IMHO, it would help to curb gimmick companies.

Random with a slightly higher pp gain of about 5-10%, nothing to great and maybe a reroll chance of 1%...  Again nothing to great but add a random option and i personally would truly enjoy that. 

Hell i played R+ the other day and it was a lot of fun and so different...

Add Random mode, make re roll 1% ( nothing higher it would be stupid but the slight re roll would make some fun taunts and just adds flavor)  and either a set number of extra PP or a percentage like 1-5 extra PP maybe like 2-3 again just a little something so that people are enticed into playing all the modes eventually but can certainly pick a mode if they so desire...

As long as people have an option, there will be dodging, bitching, and grief. There already is. Try and set up an attack or defend game. No one will join.

Just make it attack/defend on a random.  It takes more skill to be prepared for either.

mak a random option....

You appear to be missing the point.
We have an option now, nobody uses it. It should not be an option, it should just be random.

But really, what is the point of discussing it. This mod has not seen a significant change or upgrade in months. I really doubt we will see this change any time soon......

Well, game modes used to be random to an extent before my campaign. Im sure a revert would not be so hard to do for EIRRmod, its just he needs to be online.

I can PM people and try to push development all I want, but sadly, I cant pull people away from RL to work on this thing.

Problem with attack and defend at the moment, is if you put it on Axis attack then the following happens:

Allies wait a minute and a half, while the Axis come on instantly and with the extra pop for attacking. Clearly not intended, as the Allies should be on immediately and have 3-4 minutes prep time before the Axis show up.

The reverse is true for Allies attack.

This could do with a fix when possible.

From my experience a week ago, there is no artillery stopping the enemy from rushing up and taking all territory whilst the attacking team is waiting. We had to start a 3v3 with no territory on Monte Cassino =\

I appreciate your efforts to motivate the development, but even me giving the top dog 2000.00 motivation money appears to not work.

man i love attacking defended posision.

Attack and Defend were not really that innovative tbh, when they worked nobody played them anyways. On most maps setting up defenses for 1-2 min is way better than 3-4 extra pop.

New gamemodes would be cool. I can think of a few.

King of the hill - hold one or two sectors to win.
Capture the flag - hold one flag/steal the enemy flag while defending you own.
Commander - (aka known as Regicide in AOE) kill the enemy commanders to win.
Escort - (aka known as Payload in TF2) escort a number of trucks, defenders lose pop by losing trucks and the attacks gain pop by killing them.
Civil War - US vs US and Wehr vs Wehr lulz. Nobody will complain about balance.

this would be awesome but they would need to make new maps for some of the modes.

Nah they still would do to things like fausts doing 2x damage to sug armour etc.

No your not understanding..

Rembeer why ramdom modes were taken out when it was puut in every time?  Because it was horendous and sucked for the dd atk defend game that ruined shit. 

Make one game mode so that when people join the game they know its a random one. 

If i want to play ME or R mode, fuck it, I want to play it, Don;t make me random every damn time...

But on occasion i would not mind random, and i could host a game as such...

I disagree. On a sufficiently well sized map with different avenues of attack, there is no defence which can cover the whole field. There'll always be loopholes and gaps.

By the way, on most maps it takes 1 min to get to the front lines... you're actually just having 1-2 real mins to "Set up defences" and most people don't build "fortifications" anyway. It makes no difference except for "being there first".

Besides on random mode, we usually had 2 or 3, 25popcap call ins as a "neutral" or "offensive" call in, depending on the game mode. There are also generic call ins like 2 volks, 1 mg, 1 pak, 1 mortar, 1 bike which works well either way.

I disagree, it never takes 1 min to move to the center of the map.

More importantly that "most people don't build fortifications" is not a good excuse. It makes a huge difference. Wiring every piece of cover, setting up 88s, bunkers and placing mines, that can make a huge difference in gameplay. Those things may not seem so threatening in regular games because they are hard to place unhindered. In fact most games when the a team has gotten a slight territorial advantage and got the chance to set up defenses early in the game it's usually GG. Sure you can counter it but that doesn't mean that it's fair. What good is 3 pop gonna do you? One engineer is not really gonna help.

Varies from map to map.


There's a difference between theory and actual practice. I've played tons of attack/defence games when the timer was 3 mins, or even 4mins with fatherland defence. Very little people actually acted on these concepts and those few that do, most of them brought like... 3 pioneers/engineers or more just to build defences. Even so, they aren't really that good at it.

Its just "nostalgia" that people think attack/defence is great for the mod because they've played too much M/E and the "gimmicks" nowadays.


3 pop, is the differnce between just fielding 2 P4s, and fielding 2 P4s with 2 flame pios and 2 goliaths. Not good enough for you?

Or maybe 1 P4 and 3 volks w/ assault nades...

Or maybe a Panther with 2 grens/volks/kch/storms + 1 flame pio?

Or maybe a Tiger with 2 stormschrecks?

3 Popcap makes a world of difference.

And if you can select a random mode... You can not rely on being on the defensive side... So you can not stack up on nothing but mines and Goliaths or demos.. You have to bring some essembelence of balance to the game.... 

A random Option is a good one because it keeps company builds honest, IF not, they have a 3 out of 4 chance of total failure.

People asked what is my definition of a balanced company- isn't it already obvious?

There are no balanced companies. Yes you hear it right. There are NO, BALANCED, COMPANIES, in Europe in Ruins.

2 mortars , 2 hmgs ,  1 arty piece , 2 tanks , 2 light vehicles, 2 atgs, rest inf ,  balanced company

I miss playing other modes, no one hosts anything but ME, and if you try to do something else people complain. i think most people don't mind other game modes, but the problem with having things completely random is you can't set up your company for anything. if it was totally random, you would have to have (or it would be to your benefit) to have several core call ins. One if you are on the offense, one for defense, and one for R+/ME.

Either way I'm sure once the war map is all set up it will make things more interesting. Like depending on what territories are being contested would matter what game mode it was going to be.

I would like to see this back indeed.

However, there should be a poll with this though and other gametypes that may include being popped into the game.
To make it even more interesting: changing gametypes randomly every week or so...

I think its EIR mods job but he is busy with warmap so we need to wait.  :-\

So why are you called a "Warmap betatester"?  :-*

Cause of this:

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/9/8627/WTF.png)

Its because of the cat on the left hand side

damn cats

There was a contests last december for whoever would win would get a pass for early warmap beta testing and i won by getting 2 kills with a grenade.
thats why

pics or never happend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7EAYrB7xE4

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?page=122

I told you and you show me a fucking video?

tits or gtfo!

That's what you won with? What about my grenade that killed two snipers and a king tiger?

Where is the video?


Sorry unkown for derail

Awesome

No shit i do want it back and even more i want the random thing allso back so i can attack once in a and not  getting my teammates to trow a hissy fit

It was the presentation more than anything. ;)

Making me quote things I didnt say?! CEASE YOUR BLACK MAGIC WITCH!



naw, everyone back on topic now.

Attack and Defend will be back with warmap, no sense in discussing any other alternatives, it's practically in stone.

you know there was a reason why you could make it HD you know.

Oh the irony of this. I clicked "modify" when I should've clicked "quote".  I ammm drunk. ;)

I cant stop lging


allso thread Derailed

Fuck, this is not in the "General Discussion" so i cant troll.

Back to your topics you brigands! All of my posts shall be left for comedic effect, unless Tank decides otherwise. ;)