Title: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:34:05 am Imo Tiger front armor could be better, because it gets even penetrated by boys at rifle and zooks. Maybe give the Tigers front armor the armor of panther which is better.
A heavy tank should not get penetrated from front by light AT weapons. A panzerschreck which is much deadlier has problems penetrating pershing from front. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: DarkSoldierX on March 18, 2011, 09:35:11 am You be trolling right?
Tigers are penetrated by everything, doesnt mean their armour needs to be better though. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 09:36:24 am i killed your
EDIT meaant Tiger Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:36:59 am Tigers are penetrated by everything, doesnt mean their armour needs to be better though. What is your logic behind this ? Why panther which is a lighter tank should not get penetrated from front by light at weapons and tiger which is heavier should ? Quote i killed your panther from the rear not one shot from the front did damage nubnubx i had no panthers in our last game, your post is spam. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 09:37:22 am dice rolls
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:38:46 am dice rolls obviously you have no idea what you are talking about . Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 09:40:19 am i know enough from facing tigers every day that there frontal armour is reasonable not impossible to penetrate but hard to
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:41:55 am i know enough from facing tigers every day that there frontal armour is reasonable not impossible to penetrate but hard to and panther which is a lighter tank has better frontal armor, tiger should have atleast the same front armor. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: DarkSoldierX on March 18, 2011, 09:42:07 am Just looked it up, bazooka got 17.5% chance to pen tiger from front, but if it does it does 50% more damage.
Panzershrek got 45% chance to pen persh from front but does no extra damage. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on March 18, 2011, 09:42:42 am Tigers get penetraited by Atguns from front.
BUFF!!! ::) Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 09:42:54 am And Panthers penetration is? ::)
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:43:04 am Just looked it up, bazooka got 17.5% chance to pen tiger from front, but if it does it does 50% more damage. Panzershrek got 45% chance to pen persh from front but does no extra damage. links Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: DarkSoldierX on March 18, 2011, 09:46:13 am http://picly.us/coh/Weapon_Contents.html
For most weapons panther is better armour, but pershing gun vs tiger/panther Tiger is the better pick. Edit: If you want new weapons added by the mod use corsix. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:48:50 am i wonder do we have this 50% extra zooka damage buff in.
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Groundfire on March 18, 2011, 09:51:18 am Im going to throw the "realism" wrench into the cogs on this one.
Like it or not, penetration stats in this game are based off generally real statistics. Because of the Panther's sloping frontal armor, it was generally deemed to have better armor than the tiger. (even if, i believe, the tiger armor is still thicker) This relationship is present in CoH to reflect the RL nature of the units. Panthers just got penetrated less. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: DarkSoldierX on March 18, 2011, 09:54:07 am Alot of things you people dont know, is that your Low tier VCoh weapons get buffs. Piats get DMG buffs against most axis tanks, Bazooka gets some buffs, Marder gets buffs against the top tier Pershing, M10's get dmg/acc buffs against tiger and what not.
Some other things dont really make sence to me though, like the jagdpanther doing less damage vs churchhills Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Groundfire on March 18, 2011, 09:55:50 am Some other things dont really make sence to me though, like the jagdpanther doing less damage vs churchhills Churchill cant fight back. It's a balance thing. The jadgpanther will already win that fight 10/10, it doesnt need to kill the tank any faster. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on March 18, 2011, 09:56:43 am Hey would you mind telling me if there is an diffrence between the Pen of the Upgunned sherman Vs hetzers and The MKIV Vs Hetzers for i am quite sure that the Churchill is penetrating my Hetzers like crazy at long range even more than shermans uppgunned.
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 09:58:10 am Im going to throw the "realism" wrench into the cogs on this one. Like it or not, penetration stats in this game are based off generally real statistics. Because of the Panther's sloping frontal armor, it was generally deemed to have better armor than the tiger. (even if, i believe, the tiger armor is still thicker) This relationship is present in CoH to reflect the RL nature of the units. Panthers just got penetrated less. Groundfire , but its our gameplay,,, not realism , doesn't make sense for gameplay that higher tier tank has weaker armor. Atleast the front. As for 'realism' you can always say that our tigers are field modifications which have additional milimiteres of metal at front ::) Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: DarkSoldierX on March 18, 2011, 10:03:00 am Hey would you mind telling me if there is an diffrence between the Pen of the Upgunned sherman Vs hetzers and The MKIV Vs Hetzers for i am quite sure that the Churchill is penetrating my Hetzers like crazy at long range even more than shermans uppgunned. Well if I remember correctly the upgun is pretty huge, like freaking 60% modifer against the 2nd best armour in the game(hetzer sortof) The church 4 has like 28% against hetzer, the chuch 6 is a sherman nonupgun 75 __________________________ Offtopic mode off Chances tiger armour going to be improved is very slim. Pershing overall is a bit worse, are they going to get buffed to? just let it go nugnugx Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on March 18, 2011, 10:06:34 am Well if I remember correctly the upgun is pretty huge, like freaking 60% modifer against the 2nd best armour in the game(hetzer sortof) The church 4 has like 28% against hetzer, the chuch 6 is a sherman nonupgun 75 __________________________ Thanks. I really need to learn how to use corsix and i am quite suprised its not more for what i have seen while using MK 4 vs hetzers. maybe its just the fast fire speed that trew me off. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:09:38 am Chances tiger armour going to be improved is very slim. Pershing overall is a bit worse, are they going to get buffed to? just let it go nugnugx I think all axis players that used Tiger would agree that its frontal armor is bad. It's not some uber buff. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: LeoPhone on March 18, 2011, 10:10:42 am tiger armor is fine. it already can stand up to ATGs bouncing most shots.
nug, stop this trollthread. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:11:23 am tiger armor is fine. it already can stand up to ATGs bouncing most shots. and nug, stop this trollthread. Replays of your tigers bouncing atgs from front or i call bs. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: LeoPhone on March 18, 2011, 10:24:05 am lol, atg has 0.3 chanse to penetrate tiger at long range
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:28:12 am waiting for replay
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 10:35:33 am OMG, comon... like people say they are sick of my realism posts, iam sick of these "Gameplay" posts.
This is a ww2 game\mod. It needs to follow some kind of historical accuracy somewhat, or why even play it? might as well go play some fantasy mmo then right? Tiger had 100mm of front armor at a pretty even angle.. so it was just pure 100mm.. Panther had 80mm of armor at 35 degress, iam sure somebody here can do the math that can tell you what the effective thickness would be.. iam sure its like 130 or 150mm or something like that. so yes, panther should be bouncing more shots frontally than tiger. so, with that info... a m9 Zook could penetrate roughly 100mm of armor at 100m.. so technically, it could possibly go thru a tiger frontally.. and with the AT guns in this game, all is fubar really, they do alot more damage than what they should penetrate more than they should for -------- wait for it!............... "gameplay!" Also, the pershings effective front armor is better than tiger and equal with panther. all axis weapons rape and penetrate most allied AFVs pretty simple in this game, frontally or rear.. just be happy side armor is not properly modelled in this game or panthers, panzer4s, stugs, hetzers with their 50mm and lower side armor would be getting raped by 75mm shermans. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:41:06 am OMG, comon... like people say they are sick of my realism posts, iam sick of these "Gameplay" Ok let's make it realistic Quote so, with that info... a m9 Zook could penetrate roughly 100mm of armor at 100m.. so technically, it could possibly go thru a tiger frontally.. Make zooks fire only from 100 meters in-game. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: TheIcelandicManiac on March 18, 2011, 10:43:50 am Omg allready did it.
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 10:44:09 am Ok let's make it realistic Make zooks fire only from 100 meters in-game. dont you think the insance close ranges we play at probably are already there... Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:45:29 am dont you think the insance close ranges we play at probably are already there... Anything closer than 100m would be raped by mg on tiger , 1 salvo and whole team dead. Do you see now that realism does not go into coh/eir ? or do you need more examples? Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 10:48:46 am Anything closer than 100m would be raped by mg on tiger , 1 salvo and whole team dead. Do you see now that realism does not go into coh/eir ? or do you need more examples? fail example on your part... squads normally would not be running around with each that close in those situations.. try again. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:50:15 am fail example on your part... squads normally would not be running around with each that close in those situations.. try again. Yes they would be not , but they are running in coh , coh = nothing to do with realism. Thanks for clearing this up. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 10:54:38 am Yes they would be not , but they are running in coh , coh = nothing to do with realism. Thanks for clearing this up. lol, your hopeless... there are plenty of other people who use tigers not here complaining about the frontal armor on them.. they seem pretty happy with it. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 10:58:31 am there are plenty of other people who use tigers not here complaining about the frontal armor on them.. they seem pretty happy with it. Because they got accustomed to it over the years , but metagameplay has changed and things like allied small AT weapon extra damage modifiers and tiger frontal armor are relics of the past from 2-3 years ago just like it was with g43 before it got changed and many others. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Uglysori on March 18, 2011, 11:00:37 am going by coh-stats, if the values haven't been tweaked that much I can see a small case being made in lowering zook pen slightly. Currently, zooks pen panther front armor at around 11%, Tiger armor at 18%. Lowering it down from 18% to say 13-14% a tad i don't think would be super unreasonable given how much extra dmg units tend to get with veterancy, the already present extra bonus dmg zooks get vs tigers, the fact that the one doctrine that utilizes zooks the most is inf co that has tank reapers to compensate somewhat, and if your using rangers you should have the maneuverability anyway to line up for side/rear shots where the pen is very favorable towards tigers. I am just surprised nugz is so up in arms about the zooks. Once AB is back in and ppl are spamming rrs, you'll rarely see those things bounce as those AB are kiting u.
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 11:02:18 am It's not just about the zooks, it's overall about the frontal armor.
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 11:12:39 am Base Targer Table Penetration from US units.
57mm - %35 (Ap rounds always penetrate, with TR it only goes to what %40) 75mm Sherman - %24 76mm Sherman - %45 3inch M10 - %55 76mm Hellcat - %55 Zooka - %18 (TR this jumps up to a whopping %20, if my math is right) British 17pdr - %1.38 17pdr FF - %1.38 Cromwell - %22 6pdr? same as 57mm, but no ap rounds? so, thats not good enough? Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Uglysori on March 18, 2011, 11:23:54 am Base Targer Table Penetration from US units. 57mm - %35 (Ap rounds always penetrate, with TR it only goes to what %40) 75mm Sherman - %24 76mm Sherman - %45 3inch M10 - %55 76mm Hellcat - %55 Zooka - %18 (TR this jumps up to a whopping %20, if my math is right) British 17pdr - %1.38 17pdr FF - %1.38 Cromwell - %22 6pdr? same as 57mm, but no ap rounds? so, thats not good enough? pretty sure it jumps closer to 24% pen for zooks unless the tooltip in launcher is incorrect Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mysthalin on March 18, 2011, 11:31:44 am As the community king of stats I hereby declare nug to be retarded.
Tiger armour is fine. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: chefarzt on March 18, 2011, 11:35:00 am Silly boy. Its spelled N U G X
Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 11:37:53 am As the community king of stats I hereby declare nug to be retarded. +1Tiger armour is fine. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: nugnugx on March 18, 2011, 11:37:59 am Tiger armour is fine. side and back is ok , front is not. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: EliteGren on March 18, 2011, 11:41:03 am Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 12:01:49 pm TR zooks get %15 pen, damage and acc buffs... it was changed, because zooks were deamed too good.. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Tymathee on March 18, 2011, 12:31:29 pm are you serious? This is why i feel like axis commanders are the biggest whiney babies in EIR. Look at the fucking leaderboard.
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7889/tigerby.jpg) the Tigers armor is fine! I see at least 2-4 every damn game i play. It's either Tigers or IST's I thought that the Axis side, WM and PE were supposed to be the "Fun" side, where u can play with so many different units, but wait a minute, i keep seeing the same crap every dang game. Over half the leadboard (12 out of 20) are Tigers, so please, please please, dont complain about the tiger at all, cuz it's kicking the metagame's ass right about now. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RoyalHants on March 18, 2011, 12:32:40 pm are you serious? This is why i feel like axis commanders are the biggest whiney babies in EIR. Look at the fucking leaderboard. +1(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7889/tigerby.jpg) the Tigers armor is fine! I see at least 2-4 every damn game i play. It's either Tigers or IST's I thought that the Axis side, WM and PE were supposed to be the "Fun" side, where u can play with so many different units, but wait a minute, i keep seeing the same crap every dang game. Over half the leadboard (12 out of 20) are Tigers, so please, please please, dont complain about the tiger at all, cuz it's kicking the metagame's ass right about now. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: Mgallun74 on March 18, 2011, 12:39:06 pm are you serious? This is why i feel like axis commanders are the biggest whiney babies in EIR. Look at the fucking leaderboard. (http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7889/tigerby.jpg) the Tigers armor is fine! I see at least 2-4 every damn game i play. It's either Tigers or IST's I thought that the Axis side, WM and PE were supposed to be the "Fun" side, where u can play with so many different units, but wait a minute, i keep seeing the same crap every dang game. Over half the leadboard (12 out of 20) are Tigers, so please, please please, dont complain about the tiger at all, cuz it's kicking the metagame's ass right about now. Thats what iam seeing... and me, being a Infantry player those have to be the 2 worst units for me to see on the field, and thats all i see now, 3-4 ISTs, 2 Tigers.. shit eats you up really nice. Title: Re: Tiger front armor Post by: RikiRude on March 18, 2011, 02:26:39 pm I can't believe tiger frontal armor is an issue for anyone, that makes me laugh.
The only problem I see is yes, Boys AT should not penetrate panther or tiger from front. |