COH: Europe In Ruins

I've come across many weird companies lately and one that absolutely disgusted me was Gren and KCH based Terror company that consisted of Terror of Stalingrad Gren and Oak Leaves Spam, backed up with 5~6 paks.

Allied Infantry? Charge KCH with doc buffs and med kit. Instagibbed.
Light vehicles? pff, a couple of pfaust will easily eat them alive.
Tanks? Guess what, I have crap load of paks!

I'm posting this because I was stomped,
and I stomped others with this strat as well.

There are no hard counter to this other than arty spam, which by the time arties show up axis would've taken 3/4 of the map.

I think either the Oak Leaves or couple of doc buffs has got to go.

use bar riflemen and laugh

are u joking???

u just need bars which is most op thing around right now...
allies don't even use tanks anymore...

KCHs are just useless one bar supression and u can kill 380mp+140mun+25mun(med kit)+50mun(faust)

380mp+215MUn < 200mp+80mun OMG!!!

just spam rifles as almost all other ally do...

-wickY26

Now their you are just bullshitting, You need nades to make the bars usefull so its really 35+80=115 mun that a bar squad has.

still

380mp+215MUn < 200mp+110mun OMG!!!

-wickY26

bar? bar is oh so easy to counter

pop gren snipe. or say hello to your little assault nades


suppression doesn't even work on oak leaves with Fearless

Yes, using 6 Marksmen shots on a whole squad, very cost effective :)

u are joking again ha??

gren snipe only kill one man then supressed by bar...

assault nades are easy to dodge just run away with one squad who is about to be assault then killed poor grens while they are chasing them...

-wickY26

suppression doesnt really work on grens or kch with Fearless

fearless + pp oakleaves laugh at BAR suppression, if you get close enough or are in cover you will kill the rifles easy.

standing while supresion doesnt mean they cannot be suppresed..

they just get less received damage than normal supression and their speed become so slow so u can still bomb them with applenade...

-wickY26

Commie killer, post the replay where oak leaves raped multiple barsquads.

And make sure to take a pic of their ending kills.

I had two with shitloads of kills, and one that I was just like "ok i feel bad, retreat! its failkt time"

Bars don't do shit vs my oak leaves, sorry.

Hell, videotape the part where you surpressed my oak leaves and I kept walking at your bar squad and the bar squad supporting it, raping both of them.

And one last thing. Oak leaves are VERY VERY good at retaining men. Retaining men means healed men. Healed men means full HP squad with already 15+ kills and ready to get some more. Something that is impossible to do with a riflesquad.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19938.0 (http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19938.0) just watch it..

rifle spam always wins...

-wickY26

Don't watch it, it will sync error.

no it won't I tested again..

-wickY26

lol my bad I read the date wrong :L

l2readschmidt

jesus crhist people, we can fucking theory craft all godamn day.

Hard counter to assaulting infantry is BARs Or HMGs Or even better mines. Rofl, you know to stop all forms of assault nades and kch, you stack a mortar a ghound and a BAR and that entire company you cannont beat commie, goes out the window.

All assaulting inf is pushed away by the ghound and it can also push the kch who use ppills to avoid letting them to get close to your BAR rifles. Then any paks thats creep up, mortar. Or even two mortars for the Lolz.

Problem solved.

You do realized by your own definition, that if we are theory crafting, you are theory crafting.

Indeed thats alot of rifles. But the KCH weren't micro'd properly. One way I may point this out is that he used medkits in a engagement he wont win and he wanted out of. And in a engagement like that all you do is you just increased the time you are taking the pain, up to the point where you loose a man or two and you have to retreat.

You only use medkits AFTER combat, or when you are 100% sure you want commit to the combat and have no doubt you will loose.

He also sat fighting many rifles at medium range, another terrible thing to do, and he lacked assault nades, which at 50 mu is a steal on oak leaves. And in a few places his oak leaves weren't properly in cover.

And one last thing, LOL that m10 sniped 2 oak leaves men, lololololololololol!

i use medkit to heal while in combat to turn a battle in my favor, THEN you hop into an ambulance to top them off ;)

Medkits have a delay before they start up the healing aspect, it's a good way to end up dead if something comes out of the darkness that you are not expecting because you move at -1 speed.

i use the terror T2 that heals more and less movement penalty

Make the enemy fear the treads of your glorious allied tanks!

My BAR rifles eat KCH all day. Its just silly. Fearless? Still suffer penalties and count as suppressed. 3 BAR per squad +33% damage is like walking into 3 lmgs worth of damage. You will lose the battle of attrition. I usually kill a KCH squad to 1 man while also losing the BAR. Guess which you can have more of.

so all those KCH with full equipment,each +200mun,5-6 paks,not much muni left for anything else...each KCH unit should atleast kill 2 full squads of rifles with bars and nades to earn points back...

Actually I found out that g-wagons WAS a good alternative to paks due to them not costing much less mu.

And the reason why I saw WAS is that they got nerfed, they god more shockfactor but there reload was increased by a crapload in the process. There DPS went down significantly regardless of doing more dmg per shot.

If KCH are lolwtfpwning you on their own or in groups of two, youre doing it wrong. You should have your units tiered so you can continually fall back, leapfrog style, causing damage to them while staying at range and receiving little in return. American MGs also deal a hefty amount of DPS, not to mention the horde of units that should be present if its a team game. Focus fire, anyone?

Inf T3 BARs do rape practically everything, which as a biased american player, I think is great--however, it definately needs looking in to (which, in my much-hated doctrinal unlocks document, I'm thinking if several alternate solutions to the problem including offering different SL weapons in accordance to chosen upgrades, instead of +1 of that weapon.)

problem is that T3 is fucking great for bars, but mediocre for grease guns and thompsons.

and where is the problem? spam bar's as most allied players do  ::)

so what about the brits, they dont get bars and it seems that according to AmPM HIS Bars do the job but I guess normal bars dont. It's hard as heck to suppress Oak Leaves, that's without a doubt. It makes it moot to even own hmgs when they're about.

For Brits its even easier. Staghound, done.

bren mmg?

*sigh* and we all know the counters to those vehicles... and seriously oak leaves tend to get away from them without loosing a man

That works too. I like the Stag myself.

Lol?! I kill Oak Leaves with M18's with a .50cal, what are you talking about? lol

Both of those weapons tend to not fare as well against heroic armour.

Now what a M18 can do is possibly run a man or perhaps 2 over before getting killed by AT if we assume the kch have no scouter, and the player is lesser skilled.

Heroic Armor doesn't do anything besides mean he can't die in 1 hit, like from a sniper....

They do just fine vs KCH.

Im thinking the fail is on the side of the player, and not the balance of the doctrine.

I am afraid you don't understand. Staghounds have less acc vs heroic. .50 mg on the hellcat and Sherman(and probably others) deal significantly less DPS vs heroic due to less acc and alot less dmg. And many small arms have reductions vs heroic too.

But one big sexy thing about it is the half received suppression vs KCH.

Although the armour does nothing for those pesky sherman shots, the high HP of the KCH allows him to eat a shot and run away, and the only way the sherman will kill the man is if it rushes forward, into the AT, hurting his ass, and if he wants to go farther hes going to get some serious pain. And the beuty is that the KCH will just heal up. And oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

But thats not the big problem with them being OP.

Oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

Normal KCH is - 96.6 manpower per man and 36.6 mu per man

Oak leaves is - 95 manpower per man and 35 mu per man.

Shouldn't that extra MP44 for only 1 pop more have a larger price to it?

And his med kit and assault upgrades cost the same as a normal KCH, when technically they should cost more as you get more. (3 man kch assault vs 4 man kch assault, Or 3 man healing over 4 man healing)

And assault is overpowered in its epic pwnage.

So basically what I propose to do to oak KCH is -

Remove assault def bonuses(main problem, being discussed in another thread)

Increase assault cost by 5 mu

Increase Oak leaves manpower cost by 20
Increase Oak leaves munitions cost by 10

MAYBE increase medkit cost by 5 mu

I'm afraid you are confusing the Elite Armor with Heroic Criticals =)

Heroic just means you don't die in one hit. Elite gives -accuracy and damage.

They have both. Either way, KCH are easy to deal with. They cost at least 50% than a BAR Rifle allowing you to easily kill them 1 for 1 and win. The key is to eliminate the Ambulance or Medic Bunker. Just like you would a Triage Center.

silly ampm, why would allies want to put effort into micro to win battles?

They like just walking up to things and winning -_-

Omg, you dont know heroic armour exist?

Go to coh stats for christ sakes lol.

You have been in EiR for a long time, you have lots of experience AmPM, I don't know how you don't know that.
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/112/ampm.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/219/ampm.jpg/)

If you doubt the picture go to cohstats. If you doubt it even more go to RGD's yourself.

Thats pretty much what I do with my oakleaves lol, oh yeah thats right i must left click to activate assault ooh i forgot.

You mean like Axis players do? Oh look a blob of 4 rofles, i'll just run up my 2 kch, toss assault and pwn, ef those bars, can't hurt me while they're running and then get suppressed

In the RGDs the only thing that it gives you is a worse damage mitigation than Soldier, Elite, AB, etc.

All you get is a minor reduction in accuracy. Elite armor is better in every way.

My bad, it's better than Infantry Armor. Sadly, it's not worth a damned thing vs normal weaponry. Also, that .50 or 75mm sherman gun may miss, on the other hand, KCH can't hurt it worth a damn.

We should play a game, you can rush your KCH at my BARs.

I is in launcha

lol yeah your BARS, what would you do without your +3 BAR's though? Not everybody is going to use that.

and it's not *just* damage mitigation, it's a 15% accuracy bonus over infantry armor and 50% more suppression resistance, which is the real whiz of Elite Armor. when you have 4 men who receive 50% less suppression plus the buffs from doc abilities, it makes them real hard to get down. 

What am I going to do? Laugh.

380 MP, 200ish MU coming at me, just kill it/run it over/blow it up; the same as you would Elite Armor Grenadiers or Stormies. AKA, easily.

Don't take the +1 BAR T3, or not infantry? Use a Grenade and normal BARs. Done.

ampm tym is right (did i say that out loud?  ;) ), you keep talking about your bars and your rifles are so damned great. but 3 bars, +increased accuracy and damage you get from other tiers in that doctrine, not to mention if there is an officer around, of course THOSE bars are going to win out. but how about the bars everyone else has that doesnt run a company with the +1 bar and such.

Then I would say that a t2 unlock unit, that costs more, and has at least a t3 supporting it should win. Since you are using unbuffed infantry with no supporting doctrine.

Want a cheap hardcounter? Quad, M8, Croc.

see i can agree with that, but oaks will do good damage (especially with P pills active) to a quad. might kill it if it has taken even just a pak shot.

croc is the best hard counter to oaks, but who the hell runs these in their companies? maybe people should, because when i bring my dual crocs on all hell breaks lose.

TBH, if your Quad is in PFaust range you failed.

Even with normal BARs you just have to pop suppression fire, on both squads if necessary. Even fearless kch aren't doing shit when they're pinned and get naded/flamered/crushed/anything you can think of really, they're pinned. Yeah you'll take a lot of casualties but so will he and you can be sure you'll have more BARs than he will have kch.

crocs and smoke are pro, at misses ur tanks whilst flamers benefit from smoke.

thats true too, but at long range it wont do much suppressing or pinning.

Yes it will, but you have to pay attention to it building up supression on a the same squad. If it turns to shoot some other squad it will not succeed unless they are next to each other. Your better off waiting until you can use 2 at the same time, thats where they shine.