COH: Europe In Ruins

How does everyone feel about this? I think it's a great ability, but it's quite powerful, I feel that it should be toned down, I think the perfect way to balance it would be if it fired like the .30 cal when using focus fire.

Right now you suppress, which is easy, takes one to two bursts, then hit focus fire, and you annihilate anything in front of your gun.

I'm not sure how it works exactly, is the damage just upped? Does the suppression stay the same? I see no trade off with this, with the amount of damage it does I feel that the suppression should be 0 when focus fire is in use (if it isn't already).

Combined with the T4, it's just an absolutely incredible T4. Even when you get close to these support teams, they have that extra health, better armor, and mp44s, your units get hurt quite bad.

Also I think maybe focus fire should be thrown in with P Pills, and make it an upgrade that you buy, also if it's on the bottom it could kind of become a ability that every terror T4 can use, which I think would be cool as well.


Alas, I haven't been able to get focus fire on my terror account, so I'm speaking about it with out using it, so please tell me horror stories of you using it and saying it isn't what I think it is, and that I should try it before I make a big deal  :D!

Focus fire is stong.

Yes when you use it the suppression on the gun becomes 0, however you've already suppressed on the first burst and the enemy Infantry take a while to recover. Because we can't reverse suppression this is a very devastating ability.

Either we can tone it down or move it to the Tier 4.

Personally I'd move it to the Tier 4, that way it's prevelance is subdued. If Heavy support becomes too viable I'd probably drop the Sniper buffs down to the Tier 3 or something.


I use my Focus Fire HMGs(I had 7 callins of LMG Gren +HMG) to clean buildings and support my infantry pushes. the Accuracy boost means you can win a building fight against a .30 cal rather easily instead of the .30 beating you.

I had 2 HMG's in an area and suppressed an AB blob that had already used Fire up! Then I just alternated Focus fire between the HMG's to always have a Suppression tool. by the end of the engagement one of the HMG's had 21 kills

Something in terror is OP? BREAKING NEWS SCIENTISTS DISCOVER WATER IS WET!

Right, next thing you gonna tell me is that Russia is a country.

Focus fire gives it 75% increased acc and 0.1 surpression.

That is rape.

Should prolly be nerfed, altho I didnt fight against it yet, only used myself.
Should be a delay when you click Focus Fire, couple seconds.

 i have a story about it for you bro: whenever i use HMGs, people move their squads right in front of it, i dont even have to move them. so what i do is just click that button that helps to kill them a little faster. The End

moved to a T4 would be a good idea imo, or making the accuracy lower, the problem is that incredible rate of fire it has, even making it 25% more accurate is a big difference. alternatively if you made it shoot in small bursts it would be better and make more sense.

right now it's not "focus fire" its just becoming super accurate, i imagine focus fire would be short accurate bursts every second or so.

if its .1 suppresion there's the issue. anything with suppresion will continue to suppres whats been suppressed, so maybe it needs to be all the way to 0. or moved toa t4, like it used to be...Heavy supports always been a t4 -_-

btw, why is such a powerful defensive doc ability in terror anyway, it should be in defensive, that has always made no sense to me. then again...88's and FF HMGs, never mind, leave it terror.

well, i disagree strongly, trading slowling a unit down for wiping it off the map during an assault suits terror well, its a very agressove tactic and is best when use agressively. Supression is a defensive aspect. If you dont suppress a unit he can just walk right out of your ark, but if you supress, you can defend a point with supressing multiple units and supprting with infantry

Hell yeah realistic MG42's!

That doesnt make sense at all, 25% more accuracy is what it says 25% more accuracy

I'm not sure what your getting at.

75% acc is absolutely HUGE.

You are, too

Why thank you  ;D

I take pride in my size.

Yeah... Aloha, thats about the creepiest thing I've read her in a while.

right now it's 75% more accurate, with the high rate of fire, if they only increased the accuracy by 25% it would still make a big impact on it.

is that +75 or *75?

Well, what should i say....i'll try to explain it like that: "My signature has no space left"  ::) ::) ::)

Im gonna say this.

If we want to rework "Focus fire" to fit into a T3, we need to treat it like button.

Instead of an instant "+100% accuracy" and 0 suppression, it should be changed to an incremental increase in accuracy and an incremental decrease in suppresion, eventually equaling the current effectiveness of the ability, stretched out over 3-4 seconds.

Right now, it's just an instant accuracy buff at the push of a button which is gamey and broken for a free ability. I think we can do better.

lol @tym
_

the ability is fine. you either gonna get killed by the MG or some other unit supporting it. gotta be more innovative that just run up to it, pop asymmetric warfare or pop fire-up on your airbornes and run straight up to it.
in the end it just punished you a little more for bad play
edit:  maybe you should explain your idea a little more detailed, ground

and yes ground, i think we can do better regarding other doctrines too
block out assymmetric warfare until it gets fixed first, as an example-

i'm asking because i've seen abilities be +20 instead of *20 so the question is legitimate. i'll check the rgd's myself turds

edit:
It's multiplication
and its 1.75

and its .1 multiplied onto suppression, not that the suppression itself is .1

so its a mg42 with .75 x .16 at short .3 at medium and .6 at long range and 10% added suppression

(http://www.vodkronikals.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/jackie-chan-meme.png)

so the ability nerf the mg?  :-\

Well bar suppression is pretty broken for an ability too, so how about we nerf that as well, thoughts?

The result of nerfing bar suppression is axis inf roflstomping rifleman infantry 90% of the time with absolute ease.

Axis have been buffed and buffed, and allies have gotten nerfs.

What more do you want? Riflemen to shoot airsoft guns?

wow darksoldier, you have changed a lot in the past year  :D
and it actually sounds funny

Then you can give bars to rangers and have 4 man bar suppression teams instead which would add a unique flare the allies are currently missing.

doctrine vs ability, totally different.

and btw, when bar suppression is activated, actually goes way down

when you activate focus fire, accuracy is added AND suppression...

yea,you dont need bars,lol ...got rolled over 2 times in a row by pure rifleman with nothing but bars and smoke...guess what,focus fire mg's dont help too much  :P

why not move it back to T4?

Oh i wish. Sick of bars. But unless US units sees a major buff or axis inf get nerfed across the board, that bar suprression is a neccessity.

What if you throw in a T3/T4 for LnL advantage that lets .30 do the opposite. Buffs suppression but lowers damage.

you should just choose to have focus fire enabled before you deploy, that way it will be over it's head and people can take the risk of charging it, and shouldnt be hurt too much from range. also there won't be the abuse of supressing a target followed by using focus fire, you will have to resetup to get the supression bonus or reset up to benefit from the focus fire. not just toggle it whilst already setup

and in what way would that be an advantage? its a t3, there has to be some kind of advantage

well there should be some warning to the allied player that the guy has focus fire on his mg before he uses it, you might wanna take fire whilst you flank then the guy just pops focus fire unbeknownst to you and you get roflsteamlolled within seconds. how is that fair for the allied player

you have the chance to check ppls doctrines in the launcher or they could just take a different icon for focus fire MGs (would be cool imo)

how do u check peoples doctrine in launcher?

so what you do is.. NOPE

Lol

you do lol

u mean like the warning for stickies and grenades before being used?  :-\

thats something micro can avoid, if you deliberatley take fire to try and flank from what u think is a supression unit, then get mauled in the process, thats not kewl.

how can you get mauled by mg,even with focus fire,if you flanked it?

you cant always flank an mg from the side, you need multiple firing points so might go from 2 angles, if the mg just targets both and supresses them then uses focus fire, both squads get fucked

if the MG suppresses them, both squads are fucked. has nothing to do with focus fire.

if mg supresses u have chance to crawl away, if mg supresses then rapes with focus fire, it's win win for the axis. allied wouldnt stand much of a chance...

focus fire = no suppression so u have the chance to get away if you were clever enough to flank through cover

thats why its broken at the minute alotard, u supress the target then focus fire it

yeah but theres no way to suppress the other squad then. thats what you said

Get rid of focus fire for MGs.. Its BS.

Axis mgs already have longer range...  But hell if you want to keep it in EIR give it to the Allies and watch the axis cry a river...

Like the one allies are currently doing?

Are you saying its balanced and justified Night? Cuz atm its complete bullcrap. Add that to the Elite armor and crew mp44s that almost always come hand in hand with it, and thats some NASTY shit you have on your hands.

Sure, if Axis get BARs and fireup. Shit, just give my grens BARs and I well laugh.

Different factions are different, get over it.

i like how people suggest giving axis inf bars or fire up or anythin allied related, yet axis inf can take on allied inf that have 2 extra men and upgraded weapons. and axis inf still go toe to toe with them. the only time they lose is when riflemen use supression fire. funny how riflemen are only good when axis inf arent actually shooting back lol.

Axis DO get BAR's... They just don't get SF.

Scoped MP44's. :p

it's like saying ,axis do get crocs(flamenwerfers),they just dont get croc armor,lol

and why do they cost almost the same in mun and doctrine unlocks without "iwinbutton" SF?  ??? ??? ???

someone should open a thread about buffing them and nerfing the bars tbh

mirror matches ftw

I've never particularly liked SF in all honesty. BAR's rape face without it if you can get some cover and you don't let yourself get blobbed alone.

Also, if you run 3 BAR Rifles and pair them up, you'll do natural suppression to anybody who tries to blob you anyhow.

I'd be all for removing SF and reducing BAR price. Might make other upgrades useful too.

Yeah, that would be a nice change. Why hasn't that been done already?

Come to think of it, if that was done then the BAR's would have to be adjusted so 3-4 BAR's combined fire could suppress in a reasonable time. If that isn't done, I suspect two Riflemen squads are going to have some shit-hot DPS which has previously been overlooked due to people's knee-jerk SF tendencies.

Because then american basic infantry become useless.

No, not necessarily. Regular BARs could be 70 and SF BARs 80. That would be balanced.

What would that solve? Id take SF bars any day, explicitly for an 'oh shit!' button when (and it always happens) some knucklehead charges a blob of elite axis inf at me.

Meh, if the devs were going to flat out remove SF you might as well drop rifles to 110 MP, cuz thats about what theyre worth without the ability--hell, they might not even be worth that. I can run mass engie flamers and kill more.

SF is THE saving grace of U.S. infantry--without it, rifles are worthless. "Nuuuuu mass BARs ftw!" that get run over by elite infantry and MGs. "Run mass stickies and roflpwn all vehicles, noob!" ok, and get kited to death?? The arguments are mute; either SF goes and BARs as well as riflemen become cheaper, or everything stays as is and WE STAY THE HELL ON TOPIC ABOUT FOCUS FIRE, WHICH IS REALLY GAY WITH ELITE ARMOR AND CREW MP44s!!!!!!!!!!

I thought you were talking about removing SF from it entirely because thats what I am assuming Hicks is saying.

No.
I only use SF as a backup tool for when KCH or MP44 units come rushing in. Else you dont need it to kill axis inf.
But thats me, I save it for when I really need it, cause I want to keep my units on the field for as long as possible. (old strat I played)

Let me guess. You all have double rifle callins and are super mad that they dont always equal pop of axis inf.
Well thats why you run triple callins. Or quadruple.

LOL olddddd strat, youve probably never heard of it.

fine, use a fucking mortar put a rifle squad in front of mortar

end subject

look at keeps and his rifle coy with no bars,and that shit rolls!

Didn't we agree at some point that keeps could roll with an all vanilla engineer company and still have a positive W/L?

O RLY?
http://www.xfire.com/video/4f1f6d/



rofl i don't think the way to balance bars and SF is to buff them

Stop using that video Dick. It makes me cringe at the incompetency of the Volks-user every time I see it.

To me, SF is a relic of vCoH that we've never shaken off or made appropriate for EiRR.

In vCoH, you use it to force an enemy retreat at the cost of munitions.

In EiRR you use it to force an enemy retreat (essentially 'killing' the squad(s)) at no extra cost to the weapon.

Kill SF, drop BAR's to 60-70 MU and give it a week to see if Axis infantry is truly OP.

and how u gonna price lmgs than? 50mun? because 1 lmg upgrade is way inferior in terms of dps to the bar upgrade

grens dont need to be upgraded to rock, rifles do.

grens are 20% more expensive (and more vulnerable/worse to other stuff like snipers or recrewing, more vulnerable to tanks etc.) they are supposed to be better

You pay for SF as part of the BAR package. If you take away SF and leave the price, you'll be nerfing the BAR's themselves.

Also, while BAR's might have a higher DPS than a single LMG, the squad holding the LMG is going to be surviving longer than the squad holding the BAR's.

Being vulnerable to other things has nothing to do with BAR/LMG balance.

FACT is that focus fire itself is fine, its the T4 that gives MGs elite armor and mp44s ppl cant deal with.

Its the fact that the people facing it are trying to do so with ONLY bars or rangers toss in a mortar, or a backing tank and your good to go.


The volks werent even aiming at the rifles due to movement for like a 3rd of the combat.

And to balance that axis sniper shoots faster, p4 shoots faster, better support weapons, ect.

What bars? that were vanilla rifles vs mp40 volks with steady aim medkits and pervertin pills

p4 has less splash than sherman, sniper has less accuracy for countersniping (and doesnt shoot 50% faster like it needed to compensate the squadsize differences excluding the fact that it doesnt hit everytime)
support weapons are much more expensive and for some parts inferior like dps (of mgs)

my apologies the mp40 volks weren't aiming at the VANILLA RIFLES because they kept walking past the rifles.

Dick, the bottom line is if you keep trying to use that video as evidence of anything but how poorly a squad can be used, you'll only invite ridicule.

Also, not sure where you're getting this idea that the Axis has less accuracy for counter-sniping. RGD's say that Ami and Wher Snipers have equal accuracy stats against Sniper armour.

PIV has less splash BECAUSE of it's increased RoF. It also requires less splash as Rifles have lower health... High splash radius would have medium range AoE wrecking them consistently.

Axis support weapons are superior for reasons other than purely DPS, such as suppression for the MG.

that was the response to darksoldiers "pro" argument "but the P4 has higher rate of fire"

and rifles may have lower health but they are more men and they are more spread out and they can loose 83% of their squadsize before retreating while grens can only loose 75% of their squadsize
and it doesnt matter if the grens have more hp when a sherman snipes at least one each shot


and much more expensive like 100% more mun for mgs

I'd always take an MG42 over a .30cal. Why? It doesn't matter if the DPS is a bit lower, once a squad is suppressed it's as good as dead.

The MG42 can accomplish this faster, making it invaluable in comparison to the .30cal.

Again, with the Grens your bringing in something other than the Riflemen they are fighting. An Ostwind could come along and totally wreck that Rifleman squad's day. As for squad size, the Grens will still come off on top because the Riflemen lose their DPS faster because they rely on more people to provide their DPS.

The PIV is capable of handling Riflemen more or less as efficiently as a Sherman can handle Grens. Not only that, the PIV is cheaper than the Sherman.

i agree with you hicks, focus fire is actually not op.

focus fire isnt OP


But Big Dick is apparently trying to win  by theory crafting

and when a croc comes or a stag it wrecks grens day so what is your point?

My point was to respond to deadbolt "pro" arguments grens having better dps unupgraded


that makes no sense at all cos when the first gren guy dies the gren squad lost 25% of its firepower when second guy dies it lost 33% of remaining firepower and when third guy dies it lost 50% of remaining firepower (and if u want to keep it alive even 100% because it need to retreat)

The Riflemen have an overall lower DPS than the Grens do, which is why losing members hurts them more than the Grens in a stand up fight... By the time the Gren squad is at 2 men, the Riflemen are at 2-3 men, and have no hope of victory at that point.

Not sure what you're talking about.
Anyway, Im talking about when I played this old strat and how I used SF on those Rifles I had. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe80h18brEg

this is very cool, something that should be used for new players and for players to share their company builds with each other!