COH: Europe In Ruins

So I had this idea bouncing around in my head for a while. Let's make this clear, this is a Tank130 idea, not a Dev team idea. That means it is NOT getting implemented unless we have a majority of people who think it would be an improvement to the mod.

Basically I was thinking we should have the ability to choose an Offensive Bonus or a Defensive bonus when we Vet up. It would be completely OP if we just copied the PE Vet, so that is NOT what I am suggesting.

We would have to determine the MAX level of bonuses a unit could receive, then work it backwards.
For example Vet 3 Engi Offensive maximum bonus = + 20%  accuracy / +20% Damage
So let's say something like Vet 3 is 100% of the maximum, vet 2 50%, Vet 1 25% or something like that. I am not going to try to discuss the values, just the concept.

I think this would really help with company customization and specialization to play style.

Anyway, just curious if the idea warrants any discussion or not.

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Possible after thought.....

We could also split this over 5 vet levels, or possibly go over the max buff at Vet 5. Vet 5 would require such an insane amount of XP that it would be very rare to see it.

Like it!

I like 5 vet levels and the PE vet idea.

Even if we copied OMGs 4-5 idea, which is 4 gets a new skin, 5 gets custom name and becomes 'known'

So just bragging rights =P

Yes


imagine how much more epic Winds firefly saga would have been with an 'elite' skin and 'daisy' as its name

yeah...i so didnt' propose this idea months ago and it got a resouding "hell yes" I even fleshed it out more into a much more customizable tree.


then there's

@Tym:

Yeah! Maybe the Tank Destroyer could get bonusses like acceleration/speed or penetration/damage or something between this. A motar
could get a higher range or a higher amount of shell per barrage ( or a lower set up time or..).

More customization = more fun for players, more work for devs :P

the question is, if you have treed vet, will we be able to switch it up or will it all be down the offensive or defensive tree?

A Tym & Ahnungsloser

Your ideas are great as well.
I would like to avoid listing specific abilities at this point. If we start down this path it will just become another shit show thread with arguments about what ability is op or not.

At this point I just want to know if the community thinks this is a direction we should consider for veterancy.

If we did choose this option, then we would be open to ideas of what those bonuses should be.

Good question. What would be the Pros & Cons of both?

Alternating Vet Tree
Pro - High customization, able to buff units in both categories.
Con - Ability for unit to cover weaknesses on both offense and defense.
At each vet level player would have to choose one or the other, possibly in launcher, would probably go back to not being able to vet in game. Couple be possible to do in game (ie PE vet)

Static Vet Tree
Pro - Simple, choose one tree at vet 1 and stick with it. Simplier ability to vet up in game. Could do higher bonuses because unit can't get offensive and defensive abilities. Easier to code.
Con - Less customization, that's really it...

@Tank:
Yeah this is the main problem.  >:(
I have write a PM to you about this topic.

i think yes we should go down that option. It would make companies more varied and I feel make it easier to balance vet because then you can balance the different offensive and defensive abilities to the different units rather than trying to do a full on balance with both abilities.

You can even throw in different offensive and defensive abilities rather than a buff. Like sticky range can be a vet 2 defensive abilities but on offensve they get the acc buff rather than both as it is now. Same with vet 3, now its  +10 health and +20 dmg, with treed, it can be one or the other.

vet 5 kch offensive. this is a sad day.

I like the idea of options with the vet.
I would love to see a zook pen buff as an option instead of sticky range.

It would be really nice to be able to choose to take all defensive or all offensive to special my units a bit or take an even mix to just have an all around somewhat buffed unit.

Personally more then anything else i have heard suggested for this mod, treed veterancy would transcend this mod to extreme greatness. Imagine if we put 10 levels into units (balanced them accordingly i know it would be a bitch amount of work) but it would make each unit yours and yours alone. (i especially like the idea of a skin change past a certain level for posterity and just its awesome.)

Yes it would make vet hunting even bigger then it is, and the shock of losing its terrible. But that was one of the things that made diablo 2 so epic (hardcore mode) Because you can invest so much into something, lose it and RAGE and then find yourself right back at it trying to get it back

doesn't have to be all buffs. can give them extra medkit or fausts or make them cap faster etc. Offense is subjective

I think if we start adding too many vet levels it will fail.

If every level of vet adds a buff, 8, 9, or 10 buffs later the unit is far to powerful to be balanced well. Or, if we started at a max buff level and tiered it down, each vet level would give a ridiculously low level of buff, hardly making it worth while as you grind.

I could be wrong, but that's the way it feels to me.

I thinking having a named final vet level could be fun. Give that buffed up bad boy unit a name to fear....lol

Please read the OP before posting.

It clearly states that a maximum buff would be determined and then work backwards to assure we don't have over buffed units.

I did throw out an option to possibly go over the max buff with Vet 5, but it would require an insane amount xp to do so. Not a good option IMO

Agreed it would either be small buffs. or moderate buffs and say every third or so would be things like +1 grenade, or +1 ap rounds for atgs. or small minor abilities like sprint. Personally i like vanity levels every little bit, so you can spread out the buffs. Who knows. But i think a vet 10 rifleman should at the least be respected if not feared.

I like the idea of giving something like Heroic armour to a vet 10 unit but require vet 10 to be purchased and be hardcapped to 3 company wide. So you would have to pick and choose which units got vet 10. 3 rifles, a rifle sherman and ranger, or 2 rangers and a sherman etc.

example

Spartans Marines

vet 10 rifleman squadron

heroic armor
elite uniform enabled
+15% accuracy
+20 hp
sprint
+1 grenade
+5 sticky range
-15% suppression

Could make for some interesting units at the end of their tree...

A Pershing that has specialised in offensive veterancy and has HVAP would be quite a tank hunter, but would leave it just as vulnerable as it was at vet 0 to hard-line AT pieces.

I approve of unit naming. In my time during EiRR I've still only had a single digit amount of units cross the 1k exp barrier, and the few times I did it were units on front line combat which had a real presence.

Also, veterancy should go no higher than 5 tbh. Any more than that and it'd feel far too watered. We'd either have units skipping multiple levels in one game as a frequent event, or it'd take a small eternity to see a veteran unit worth something (Leading to some nasty vet whoring compared to what we see now).

ive given up on these threads, they are all just pipe dreams anyways!

how about people stop discussing the details since its never gonna happen anyways, and just stay open to whether or not the general premise would have been interesting/cool if it happened

Tanks suggesting it, and he can make sure it gets taken seriously. The honest fact is we know its do-able.


And to be honest its more fun sounding then the warmap

tank can't make eirrmod work dude, only eirrmod can

Im just lol'ing about this thread.

we won't see anything other than maybe some balance patches, if that until the war map is working.

then after war map is working we are most likely going to see doctrine balance and adjusting.

then we might see reward unit/unlock balancing/unit pricing/pop fix (think puma)

then maybe MAYBE vet will get a look at, and I'm not talking an over haul of a rework like you are suggesting, I'm talking things that should of been changed ages ago like giving the croc sherman more damage at vet 2, not accuracy, same with engs/pios.


now i'm not saying the devs are lazy or something like that, im just being realistic, even if they had more people and were going at twice the work they are now, something like what you are suggesting wouldnt even start to be seriously considered for at least 6 months.

can we please stop talking about what we might or might not see? can't we just silently turn towards Mecca and pray? because all this dream mongering and wishful thinking edges between being depressing and agonizing.


 :'( please stop

This is all SQL and RGDs, so nothing we can blame eirrmod for :P. Though that being said, doctrines are being prioritised first.

I think if we customized it like Spartan has suggested it may become to big of a task to be seriously considered with the small team we have.

Just trying to balance all those options would be akin to rebuilding a mod....... I think.

However, if we kept it a little more simple like:
1. All infantry receive same Off / Def Bonuses
2. All Vehicles receive same Off / Def Bonuses

etc,

That would be much easier to balance and implement. In fact, it could easily be done at the same time as doctrines because Ground, Unknown, and Tank could do the RGD coding leaving Leo to do the Doctrine RGD coding.

I realize if it is not exciting enough it is not worth it, but I think it would be much more interesting then what we have now.

im not arguing that, but a little man can dream eh?

Spartan, its ok.  Your idea is what I invisioned if it was to be implemented.

The thought of vet purchasing being reinstated makes me shiver.

awesome

+1, why mess up what is good and aint broken

Vet purchasing in these ways will NEVER see the light of day again:

- Restricting a unit until it is 'purchased'
- Spending PP (or whatever) to boost up a unit to vet 1 or 2 etc.

Vet 'purchasing' to choose the variation or expansion at level 2, 4 and 5 might be added however (similar to PE vCOH, but in launcher), and it wouldnt just be %'s, but abilities too.