COH: Europe In Ruins

As Title says, the HVAP pershing is a big let down as it has the permenant hvap shells thus giving it a permenant splash radius decrease

why not let it be like USK? let it have a switch between the HE and the normal shells? I mean it was done for tiger ace can be done for HVAP pershing right?

(not saying give both splash and hvap to one shell, but give choices to use either normal or HVAP ammo)

Tiger ace is reward unit,pershing is not.
Does normal tiger have rounds to switch? No he doesnt.

I like this idea.

HVAP on 45 Range when using AP and low splash and acc vs infantry
HVAP off 40 range normal splash.

Did you mean it like this?  ^

I think he just means toggle between normal and current HVAP, so you have more splash or more penetration/damage. 45 range HVAP would be entirely ridiculous... although, I'd be the last person on Earth to complain if it were implemented.

no because tiger gun has biggest anti infantry splash and can take on any allied tank 1v1.

and i like the idea. its no fun having a t4 that takes away a strength of the unit, does any other t4 do this?

u sure?

HVAP pershing kills tiger no problem ;)
m18 kills tiger no problem ;)
dunno about firefly sight with upgrade,but if it has it above 40,it can also kill tiger.
dunno about upgraded tertach,but considering his speed,I am fairly sure that he can circle tiger all day,and pound his ass.

I doubt an M18 or Tetrach could kill the Tiger by themselves - there are a bunch of ways to get out of being circled, so the only way that would work is if the Tiger player were completely retarded and just sat there.

This would definitely give me a reason to look at Pershings again tbh.

As long as there is a respectable wait between loading each shell type, I could roll with this. Standard reload cycle + 2-4 seconds should do it.

m18 has sight and range 45,tiger has range 40,and sight I think. So yeah,m18 can kill tiger withouth a problem. There was that replay not so long ago,where smokaz I think raped eind's and someone else tiger's just with his m18's,tiger simply cant touch it.

Oh, right, I forgot about the M18's sight range.

In open terrain an M18 will pick a Tiger apart piece by piece. Get an environment with a few shot blockers, preferably hedges that your Tiger can crush and flank the M18 on a moments notice.

Also, the M18's long range penetration against a Tiger is less than impressive. You'll have more than enough time to pull back to get AT support and bugger him off. Same goes for a Tetratch and it's low DPS.

So why exactly are you mention this? He told that tiger can solo 1v1 any allied tank,I gave him proof that he cant,problem?

yea,because m18 user is stupid and he doesnt know that tiger can crush hedge and flank it...right  ::)

why dont we put them in a pit 5x5m  ::)

Theoretically speaking if you can get the right conditions the Tiger will put down any Allied tank. You can do this by MAKING the conditions. If he wants to chase after you with his M18 or Tet you lure him into an urban environment where range means shit. If the map has no urban or shot blocking environments then the map is simply shit.

Also, I said PREFERABLY an area with hedges. If you lure the M18 into that environment, he'll have to navigate it properly. You wont. You can back through a hedge, turn around it and boom, he cant shoot you. He'll then have to go all the way around or go through the gap at point blank range where he eats a shell. If he goes around you can move to an appropriate position to put yourself in range to hit him as the two units gain LOS of each other. In these conditions, the only option the M18 will have is to disengage or risk getting pasted by a Tiger commander with his head screwed on.

If you make the Tiger run away with your M18 it is already doing more than it's share helping you win, thats 16pop running from 10 and the Tiger costs a lot more. No need to chase, just force it back and crawl forward, rinse, repeat.

why would he chase you?
I shoot you,you run away...I can clearly see who wins here. No need for me to pursue fleeing enemy,I have won.

So KCH also loose 1v1 against most allies infantry. You just hop inside building with your squad,and he doesnt do much with mp44 against building.

He's speaking one on one combat effectiveness Am. We all know that your supporting piece of AT that you WILL have if you have a Tiger will make sure the M18 knows it's place (Assuming competent Axis commander) so that 10 pop M18 wont be doing it's worth.

Besides, the only reason I've explained to Smurf why a Tiger is capable of handling even the mobile or ranged threats is to humour him. The reality is that one on one tank engagements only happen in EiRR when somebody has made a grievous mistake and the tank is screwed anyway.

Because there might be not enough spare for both of them.  ;)

Its not a pershing ace, yea its a trade off for splash but the extra damage vs everything with wheels is well worth it

Your right, it's not a Pershing Ace. Which is why it's range would remain unchanged, so would it's speed, so would it's health, so on.

The problem is, 8th, that no other T4 is a trade off. There are INSANE buffs to every single other armoured vehicle in armour doctrine, but the Pershing gets a trade off, and the buff isn't even as big as HVAP for other tanks.

doctrine upgrades really shouldn't have a trade off tbh

lol i love the theoretical bullcrap that people like to spout. Why whenever there are "balance discussions"  people always add in doc abilities "oh a tiger can't beat an hvap pershign 1 v 1!" well duh! because hvap was created so a pershing can take a pershing 1v1!

but  a barebones pershign wont beat a tiger and an m-18 against a competent tiger commander wont beat a tiger 1v1 that's just ridiculous. all a tiger needs is 3 hits and its dead, heck on the 2nd hit it may take out an engine.

Actually Tym, an equally skills M18 vs Tiger = M18 win every time. At equal levels of skill the Tiger will never hit the M18 unless the Allied player fucks up.

^ In open ground.

+1

If in built up area, just wait for Tiger to turn turret back to normal, come in from different angle, fire, back off. He won't even turn the gun till you are in view, you fire much faster.

Or, proceed to now ignore Tiger hiding behind building and laugh as you and your teammate crush the Axis at different location.

Panther is much more dangerous to your game plan than Tiger.

i thought a toggle was set in motion a while ago. anyway isnt tank commander a toggle ability. and cmon lets be honest just take out the cuckoo and give us the super pershing problem solved.

I dare say you consider the Tiger user to be a total idiot and not take manual control of the turret by careful use of attack ground?

Disengaging is irrelevant. If the M18 pulls out then the Tiger is also free to engage on another front, with support, doing what it should. This is Tiger vs M18 only.

A Tiger can piss on your bonfire just as much as a Panther can in the correct hands.

So lets just bring back old sherman HE rounds, as it shouldn't have toggle either

I bring out a tiger, you bring out an m-18, i'll beat you every time.

it's only someone who doesn't know how to handle a Tiger that'll lose that engagement.

So, what you're telling me AmPm is that a 400 health tank that does 140.625 damage will be able to get off 7-8 penetrating shots vs the frontal or even side armor of a Tiger before the tiger gets 3 shots off and hits it? No way.

yes,because you cant hit what is outside of your LOS and range  ::)

right and i'm going to be stupid enough to just let it keep hititng me lmao.

What else are you going to do? Catch it? its faster then you.

They are talking about strictly one on one, m18 will beat a tiger because its faster and has better range

If you want to use its range, it's best to use it while kiting and the tiger will be able to catch up and i'm not going to allow it to do what it does best which is circle. it has to do either or and i'll be able to counter one or the other.

Tym i don't think you quite understand

M18 has greater range AND speed. ONE ON ONE the m18 will slowly wear down the tiger unless the m18 stops and lets the tiger move forward. There is nothing the tiger can do nothing.

*Cough* Environmentals. Stand up fight and if the M18 has all day, the M18 will win in open terrain. Proper tank micro will make it an even match in an urban environment, leading to the Tiger's victory every time due to needing fewer rounds to accomplish it's task.

Either way, this has nothing to do with the Pershing having HVAP on a toggle - Which I support btw.

as i said to ampm, lets do this 1v1 and i will win everytime. only an incompetent player will allow the m18 to have the advantage.

shouldn't be a range buff at all

I would probably enjoy having just about every tank having some sort of toggle ability.

You tiger vs M18 arguers are idiots, all of you.

Pershing needs the toggle. It's subpar with all 3 of it's T4's, the only useful way to use it is with the dual T3 for moving/shooting repairs. Tiger gets a toggle on a T3 to give it 40 sight and 20% accuracy, or a rotation/reload increase, yet nobody bitches about that (not to mention it gets keep it moving and doctrinal smoke rounds, armor cant even dream of that).

Simple toggle, same time as commander up/down or USK HE rounds. Switch between HVAP rounds and standard rounds.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=20526.0

There you go Tym,Wind&Pauli are obviously incompetent. Tigers getting owned by m18,nah,this simply cant happen,wind must be idiot. Good thing that you are here to teach him how to use tiger ;)

Oh yeah,map also isnt a field with no obstacles on it...

Chieftan 3 legs makes sense, i thin kthe pershing needs some love and the toggle would be a nice thing to add.

sometimes it looks like there are nothing but tigers and m18s on the field lol. what support u can provide for tiger? storms cloacked paks or faust (not to mention fact that armour doctrine gives u zooks and u can see that rfls have em but volks with fausts or without em u cant see it). so kill m18 is not so hard as u axis fanboys are talking. HVAP sux monkey balls. only 2t3 is worth to have for persh meanwhile tiger and other blitz armour can get some cool doctrinal buffs (sprint, smoke and etc etc). so its draw in fight who is better tiger or persh and in my opinion persh and tiger are good as they are now.
funniest shit is that the most complains about units are saying guys who does not play or play this game very rare

+1

so true.

this whole 3 page discussion is retarded. you'll never see m18 solo vs a tiger unless most other units are dead or the players are bad, and environmental factors weigh in too much when it comes to them fighting. Plus how long is it going to take for that M18 to actually kill the tiger? And if the m18 doesnt penetrate the tiger can just keep rolling forward. If you guys are going to sit there and theory craft for that fucking long, why dont each of you just write a piece of fan fiction for the tiger or m18 in these conditions you're talking about and save us all from reading your allied fanboy vs axis fanboy bs.


Back on topic.


Pershing should get the toggle for the simple fact that as said, it's the only T4 that has a big trade off. what if I wanted a pershing for AI, and m10s for AT? you cant do it, hvap means you HAVE to use your pershing for AT pretty much. At the very least hvap should be an upgrade you buy, it's dumb that the T4 should affect your company in that way. What if the blitz bottom T4 gave your grens and storms elite armor, but it took away storms ability to cloak?

Do you guys even read previous posts? NO ONE IS ARGUING 1v1 TIGER VS M18 IN NORMAL GAME WITH SUPPORT!

do you realize your trying explain something to the eirr community?

Tiger sucks period.

Panther > Tiger

So, HVAP on toggle for one reload cycle + 2-4 seconds?

Hell, I'd like to see a lot more HE/AP toggles for tanks tbh... Would be interesting to be able to catch a 'Better' tank with it's pants down while it has the wrong ammo loaded after baiting with the right unit.

its like trying to explain to a feral mexican Sasquatch that one day HellTrooper will be good.

How to buff pershing so that it doesn't get munched up by wehr, but still doesnt completely roll over PE with zooks and atgs in the back?

+1


Anything done to the pershing which buffs versus Wehrmacht means it'll rape Panzer Elite harder.

This image represents Scortched Earth and Luftwaffe versus Any form of Armor heavy company

(http://i39.tinypic.com/sb7psw.png)

Actually Luft can rape armour quite hard with henshel.

(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/katzenkrimis/anotherhenschelfail.jpg)

...PE AT works fine, just dont throw it away.  Realize PE consists of glass cannons, and learn to be ok with giving up territory instead of worrying about holding every piece of ground you own.  PE works like an ocean, the tide goes up and down, it isn't a damn citadel faction like wehrmacht.  So tired of people trying to talk about playing PE when they don't understand how it works.  Can we just refer any PE questions to Audemed from now on? If he thinks there is a problem, then ok, otherwise, stfu?  Cool.

my AT in TH PE - 7 marders,few magnetic bombs and teller mines,2x X7missle
AT in luft - 2x panzerknacker,6x marders,some fausts

One LATHT + a Marder or two makes for a very dead Pershing. PE has options for dealing with heavy armour, they are just a little less direct than people are used to.

unless you throw in a mix atg :p,then you got very dead LATHT and Marder.

if you throw an atg or 2 at PE, and creep them up, GG to anything the PE has cause youll just have to keep moving back to avoid the atgs and the pershing will own any inf you try to advance with. Reality is, PE has a hard time dealing with support heavy companies as thier only way of dealing with it is mortar HT and on open maps, the range= atg range. and stulka are too much pop for the amount of damage they DONT do. So atg creep just eventually pushes you into your spawn. Very few effective counters, wehrmacht has many more

this ones better

(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/katzenkrimis/henschelfail.jpg)

ZOMG HENSCHEL!

-drives away-

LOL pp wasted  ::)

lol, I love this guys cartoons

(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/katzenkrimis/underpowered.jpg?t=1258001663)

bloody nazis

oh, that are allies? hmm

LOL henschels are awesome.

They get rid of snipers and vet hunt tanks, just make sure that the sniper is nearby and pull out the henschel, it will pick him off cloaked.

That's like a common guy having sex with a porno star. Not going to happen.

Pics

Proof


OR


It didn't happen.

Lol. He made those 2 henscel comics for when I was trying to prove the vcoh henscel runs were useful. The one with treadbreaker was for a replay on wrecked train where I TB a sherman, It made like 4 passes and didn't kill it (altho it did gib a ranger squad), and then *finally* got it as the ability expired, some 30 seconds later.

Actually its quite easy to do, just use the ability yourself. Just like a common guy having sex with a porn star, its quite easy as the porn industry will hire ANY man who can get it up infront of a camera as well as pay them more then women.