COH: Europe In Ruins

I looked through the RGD's and noticed some changes within the last patch. In the tank gun sub section there are new entities called "m3_90mm_pershing_super_hvap.rgd" "m3_90mm_pershing_super.rgd" and "m3_90mm_pershing_super_gun_apability.rg d".

Obviously the first two of this entities look like a new gun for a new pershing vehicle and the last entity looks like that this vehicle has the ability
to pop armour percing rounds to get awesome penetration bonuses against target to be capable to fight against any heavy vehicle.

It seems that the new super pershing gun deals 165 Damage (A normal Pershing does 137.5 Damage), has up to +30% more penetration at short range
and about +30% more accuracy against some targets, allthough it has +5 more range.
The armour piercing round ability seems to give x5 Penetration, so that even a Jagdpanther will be penetrated with every single shot.

What I want you to ask is...
- Would you like to see it?
- What do you except from it?
- Should it be a reward unit or a specific armour doctrine unit?
- Do you think it will come with the warmap?


I can't say when this unit gets released and if this will ever be released,but it seems that there happen some crazy things in the background.
I can feel that the Warmap is near by...



Ahnungsloser

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QQqlhTGuK7c/T1Yfj3mnZHI/AAAAAAAAAFA/CD4kWr88Ucw/s1600/illuminati.jpg)

no gay unit is gay

zzzzz

It's been in the RGD's since the latest patch hit and as a Pershing user, it's basically a wet dream.

No, I'm not going to give out the details on this one.

Yes, it's as silly as the Tiger Ace.

i think HVAP t4 shouldnt lose AI capabilities.

i would like to see the super pershing. I suggested   it a while ago but just like most things the chances of it happening is like 0.1

OMG. please. it would make allies so much more fun

So you're saying I should just never touch anything that does not have super AT counters again?
Gee, I suppose it's fair of the factions are even in that regard.


I'll just blindfold my medium tank coys and give them a couple of minutes before I mercy kill them, alright?  :D

Super pershing for allies and no buff to tiger?

It is called balance

Just went through rgds, he has 1100 health.  accel 2.5 and deaccel 4  with a speed of 5.5.  Pop 18.

pop 0f 18?. hmm i hope he can take on a maus or elefant.

super pershing will still get raped unless it has better armor than normal pershing

His role seems to be a moving super gun.

at 18 pop, that is quite lulz

so,can he solo Jagd or KT?

more stats


long range : 0.75

medium: 1

short: 1

fire aim time: 0

wind up 0

moving acc: 0.5


long pen: 1

med: 1.15

short: 1.3

(lol)


range: 45

reload: 6






If normal persh with hvap can put a lot of hurt on KT than he should be able.  Jag not sure but probably yes also, crazy penetration meaning every hit penetrated....

Let's sum up:
We have a big manpower deficit on this mod and only one (?) guy who's doing the rgd rework. That means that every change that is going
to happen need a specific *long* time until it's done.

Even though I was blind for the last months, it does not explain the fact that these entities are still in the RGDs. You want me to believe that the
coder team waste it's time on work, which is not necessarcy and useless and the same time? Seriously, no I can't believe this.



Personally I don't care about the Super Pershing, because I won't use it, but there will be some guys who would like to see this unit.

why not balance the current units. why not balance the current doctrines. yea the priorities of some devs are kinda weird tbh. Whatever, in 2013 we got company of heroes 2 and then we can decide weather we play this super nice idea of EiRR with these nice developers (if they will get this product finished in 2013  ::)) or maybe a super nice new coh.

This game will never be balanced because every single person in the community has a different perception of what balance is. Even if we did fix design flaws like giving doctrine free buffs costs, there will never be a consensus until you make CoH a mirrored game like chess, or even starcraft.

You cannot have balance with asymmetrical unit design, veterancy and tech structure. It quite literally is impossible. I am sick of you turds saying that we are neglecting this aspect of development because it quite literally is not true at all.

You need to realize the game your playing.

I normally start twitching when I see inaccurate statistics posted, but for this one I'm just gonna let it fly considering this unit will never see the light of day. >.<

why is this such a big deal anyways, who cares

Probably a reward unit.



Isn't balance a fact and not a perception or opinion?


1st problem)

EIR is about out attritioning your enemy so If something is clearly better for the cost ratio that it delivers it's too good,  if it performs under cost ratio, it's too bad and needs to be better.


2nd problem of different nature)

There are upgrades in eir that when used in numbers 1-2 are too bad, but when are spammed on whole company they are OP. (faust alpha strike). - a way of fixing this would be to up the price and the damage done to a higher number so 1 faust deals more damage so it is usefull in small numbers as a support weapon and not main AT, thus it would not allow to field high number of said weapon because munitions costs would not allow this but at the same time it would be usefull to effectively cripple a tank - same with other upgrades, units etc.

While balance is a fact people still complain no matter what due to perceived imbalances within the game.

Example.

Your about to do the sweetest flank that will wipe out 4 atgs with a single assault gren squad. 1 m8 comes along and ends it due to lack of support and better micro, person goes to forums and complains how OP m8 is and how terrible assault grens are and gets a few other people to back him. Suddenly things seem imbalanced, when they really are balanced.

Your discription fits to ~50% of all "balance issues".

i think imbalanced is when you have 4 atgs shoot at a 88 and its shoots them dead.

ROFLMAO!!!!!

That is exactly what the weapons cache was - good luck promoting that one Nug.

Actually, what Weapons Cache did was artificially limit your ability to spend Munitions. This plan is to increase the individual power of the upgrades and increase their price. With the increase in price you would see a drop in amount.

Just because something is damaging in high numbers does not make it OP. Fausts for instance, use and HMG or 2 or 3. Still costs less than those 4 Volks and will nail them to the floor.

Yes but the actual price and the damage would have to be high.   4 fausts make 300 dmg and cost 160mu at one strike. I think that giving  300 dmg to 1 faust on 1 use and 250mu price would be ok.

This way you wouldn't be able to spam because simply 5 fausts would eat 1000mu, but 1 faust would actualy support your main AT effectively.It would be a situational weapon vs enemy tank. If someone would want to create a 4 volk faust callin, he would be able to do it, but only 1 time.

Same with other upgrades and units analogicaly that are weak alone but strong in numbers.

I believe that this solution would finaly put an end to spam by having viable usefull units and upgrades.

sigh........ Such a simple process confuses such simple minds.....lol

If we completely ignore the fact that the weapons cache was in Beta and had not been balanced - then possible with a massive stretch of the imagination, your claims could be true.

Once the WC was balanced correctly, it would only limit your munitions if you were spamming the shit out of upgrades on something else.

It really is pointless to argue the merits of the cache, as it has been removed and another system is about to be implemented anyway.
Of course, we expect the same group of people to QQ all day long about it, but frankly we don't cater to forum lurkers who don't play anymore.

What is it going to be?

AmPm does play tbh

If you balanced it properly you wouldn't need WC in the first place. If 50mu I too low and 55 too high try 52 or 53. Or make it 50 or 55 and adjust damage to balance. You already have 4 systems in place, resources, pop, pool and stats. Don't need a 5th.

Also, I play more than you Tank, and we are still stuck listening to you. Right now I'm trying to make AB centric AB work.

It might possibly be a way to properly balance vanilla units against upgraded units.

Yea, but again, that should be done through cost.

IF someone wants to make a PFaust company, or a grenade company, or LMG or BAR or whatever, that should be allowed within the limits of their company resources. Not because they are only allowed to purchase a few of whatever item it is before the Cache bites them in the ass.

faust already provide excellent at if they did 300 damage wouldnt it like destroy any LV in a single hit?. i think faust currently are pretty darned balanced if you keep them with a p4 you can take on a TD or a sherman. they provide excellent area of denial  and for 3 of them at 40 munitions i would say. thats pretty darn fair.

Im going to chime in. There is no way in hell that we would implement a 300 damage faust, regardless of what it costs until it functions under the same rules as other projectiles.

Fausts dont miss. They may not always penetrate, but they sure as fuck dont miss. If you want a 300 damage faust, then its got to be able to miss the tank along with a high cost.

it basically needs to be a one time schreck launch for it to be balanced but that comes at a reduction in damage from the original 300, and I know no one would pay any amount of muni for a single schreck shot.

As stated by aeroblade, limited use AT is supposed to be for area denial, not your main AT. It can only maintain this function for so long if we buff it in any kind of way or redesign the faust into a more balancable weapon.

Hey now, I've had a faust hit a bush when I was shooting a tank

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=10401.0
Rings a bell?

But i already fire faust for 300dmg, and it is my main AT, so you already implemented it ;)

Pic of your faust .rgd or your a big fat liar.   ;)

;)



(http://i.imgur.com/ijlQ7.png)


I won't even mention how much  MP i have after this for panthers and vehicles ;)

yeah taht would pretty much alpha strike any TD lol. personally id run blitz t4 with extra faust.

your ai must be shit.

you couldn't be more wrong.

6240 MP for that lot. That makes for 1760 MP left assuming no MP advs. Though we'll assume you have T1 at least making it 2160 MP left for Panthers and vehicles. Panthers are 600 MP a whack so assuming you have one of them that's 1560 MP for your 88's.

still he has AT on all his units

u sure? because I have seen then hit terrain sometimes.

an anomaly in the game engine. Like, how ive seen a sticky bomb miss a tank before and fly into the sky; not one of you would not say that, bar some freak out of the game engine, the faust and sticky have a 99.9% chance of hitting it's target.

In terms of balance, this means that the weapon always hits and it needs to be balanced as a weapon that always hits.

That build only works because of 88's right now.

Get rid of the 88 Arty and it's a walk in the park for a couple HMGs.

Funny that you say this because it works fine without 88.





and what about stickie?  It goes through hedges also.... are weapons that goes through hedges and buildings balanced for what they do? (piat and rifle nade?)

Nug, why are you always talking about balance?

When I reflect on what I see, I become tormented in the lack of balance of the people who insist on one extreme or the other. My silent scream of terror is felt by the warriors and causes them to rethink their struggle and unite together under the banner of balance.
The balance point allows the mind to think with logic and emotion at the same time, allowing people to be analytical, but not unemotional.
The battle lines have been drawn, the cries of destiny scream for the true God of Balance to take his throne and resotre balance to the world. So will the god of Balance rise to his destiny or fail being lost in the dark history of the world.

tankedit: Childish personal attacks removed

tankedit: Childish personal attacks removed

tankedit: Childish personal attacks removed

So guys, back to the Super pershing. If we did start to implement new units in a wider fashion, what would you guys like to see? More experimental tanks, or maybe older outdated tanks put into a new role (like the pzkfwII we have)

pz2 is outdated,but does AI job better than most units,lol

Doesnt make sense amirite? lol it should be two shotted.

the pw42 - calliope for PE

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=23483.0



the medium tank for PE , maybe a tank destroyer ?

Well, ill go plug it in and test it out rly quick. I got nothing to do today. Will post video.

You have the model ?

PzIII  ;)

Seriously thou, the Panzerwerfer would be cool

nvm its pz2 not 3 :P

tankedit: unrelated pics removed

Funny what's happen to my Super-Pershing thread. At least it's a good discussion.

Ooh, this thing has some punch to it.
http://beta.xfire.com/videos/56f86e/

tankedit: Unrelated pics removed

I like it. Would be much better if it ripple fired though.

I think its built atm to be a mobile super nebel. Thats what it looks like anyways. Doesnt necessarily have to be the axis calliope, it does only have 10 rocket tubes.

OP to hell

Can we get the statistics on it?

Whatever they are, they would be changed for EIRR. The people that make these models make them ready for blitzkreig or BotB, so they have RL like stats. Wouldnt be any point to posting them now. Just assume that these would be built to fill a reward unit role atm.

OMG Has infected us.

do want

How so? We are not implementing these units into the normal unit roster. It would cause conflicts with the current unit roles. Why get a nebel when you can get a panzerwerfer?

No, we are not there yet, but I got some ideas on how to use ALL THE MODELS without running into problems or making anything redundant. ;)

Blackprince for Brits plox.

think churchill with 17 pd gun :D, would be like a british king tiger in someways, slow but packs a punch against tanks. I'd go with persh dmg m10 range, panther infantry acc.

I want a 17Pounder Churchill as a "Crocodile" variant.  :D

WTB Panther II =)

axis already have a maus,elefant jagdtiger. MORE heavy tanks plox!. it would be interesting seeing a black prince.

I'm asking for a medium tank thx.

heavy allied tanks ruin balance

Yeah, Cause Pershings and Churchills wreck balance lol.

i guess we should give axis a big AT gun that never misses tanks, just to make sure Heavy allied tanks dont ruin said balance.

Pak40.

 TROLOLOLOLOLOl

hmm let's see. what non doc tank gets a penetration buff vs churchill armor? oh thats right, the panther. 1.07, Im quite sure that a churchill with a 17 lb gun wouldn't be OP at all.

you are talking about BETTER pershings, BETTER churchills. you guys are fucking lol

If you want big tanks, go to Axis, not proposing it for allies -.-

 Cant play a game then because most of us want to play axis but have to play allies just so we can play.

and what's wrong with that?

Axis - Tiger > King Tiger & Jagdtiger
Panther > Jagdpanther

a panther, a normal panther would beat a black prince easily, it has more speed, will penetrate everyshot, does a lot of damage and will have longer range and faster turret traverse, problem?

the pershing would pose a problem I agree but meh, wahtever.

2/3 of all people who voted for this poll would like to see a Super Pershing. It's time for a release now.  :P

I want a King Tiger Ace / Panther Ace duel on Road To From Carentan "snow edition." Bring it!

how will that pershing even be that good at roflpwning the axis heavies? it will be able to dish out damage and outrange regular tiger, and penetrate jagd, but it can't get into a firefight unless it has more hp and armor than current pershing, and acpr marders will shred it to pieces

The most don't say that they want it roflpwning axis tanks, they just want to see a new cool unit. It's the some guys what to have the Panzerwerfer for the Axis, allthough it can be hurt by small arms fire. (seems to have a kind of halftrack armour type)

gtfo with allied fanbois tym, i think tank needs his daily suck ass

Pershing armour with -20% incoming penetration.

About 1200 health if I recall.

Get HVAP and combine it with the already increased penetration rates and axis heavy armour will pretty much have to suck it down.

i kick your ass with logic and all you have in your pocket are insults? smh

you know i'm right, you just don't want to admit it.

lolwut!?

your analysis was completely WRONG hahahaha

Yep your logic, how did it go again? 10+10= 24?

Gotcha!  ;)
26 of 38 people voted for Yes. Glad that it got released with the new patch.
I didn't bought it and I will not buy it in the future but a lot of people enjoy it and have fun with the new tool.

Greetz to the Devcave - Good job Gentlemens! :)

cloaked goliaths and cloaked stormies shreking it from the rear. done and done.

Yeah this unit is lolbait for golis. min 5 range? lolk.

Currently skilled in the art of The Pershing, this is good but unlike most other units it has a severe weakness That can be exploited. That being said it is still a good tank. But i prefer regular Pershing much more.

Or you can do what I did to Myst's S. Pershing

Teller mine, double Shrecks in clowncars, and a AT missle!

And then steal the kill with a pak like a boss ;)