COH: Europe In Ruins

Since I turned 20 the other day the first thing I did was go buy a few bottles of whiskey now that I could do it legally. (18 is the legal drinking age, but it's 20 to buy hard liquor... It's a bit strange) Anyway, I figured I'd ask what you guys like the most. Personally, while I like beer I grew fond of vodka and especially whiskey pretty quickly when I started drinking, problem with that is it costs a little more than the beer :(! Don't like wine one bit thou.

And any brands in particular while at it? Since I'm trying a bunch of stuff out recommendations couldn't hurt (Oh yes they probably could... :))

Be a patriot, buy absolut vodka!

Congratulations on your birthday and right to get inebriated!

You have opened a Pandora's box of information since I am bored at work, and I work at a wine and spirits store and have been for the past three years.

Anyways my personal favorite is beer, for me it just goes so good with the foods I eat and its just so damn easy to pick up a six pack. Also in America there are loads of craft beer popping up so its not hard to find something new and good that uses quality ingredients.

Second to beer is spirits for me more specifically whiskey and even more specific Bourbons knob creek. Blantons, Basil Hayden all great american whiskys that aren't too hard to find in the USA.  Although my current Muse is white rye, which has started popping up but it really hard to find. But it's just a rye whiskey that hasn't been aged.

Right behind whisky is rum and if you can find it sailor Jerry or kraken rum are incredible!

As far as vodkas go, Tito's American vodka is good, its made with corn a bit smoother and sweeter almost.

Man doing this on my phone this on my phone is a pain ill just have to wait til km home Haha.

Vodka based on corn? is that even vodka?

I can't say much because I havn't been trying everything, but I personally think vodka is the best in general. And I also think beers are pretty meh due to how much you have to drink in order to feel the effects of it.

I don't think I recall trying any whiskey though. Think I may try that out soon.

I think beer tastes like shit.

That would have been ok if it weren't for how weak it is.

So Vodka, Whiskey, Wine, Mead, Cider, Rum and other assorted Spirits is what I drink.

i stopped reading when you mentioned america and beer, lolz.

I tend to guzzle whatever beer I end up getting my hands on. Can't stand Cider as it tastes like piss.

I used to quite like Whiskey, then things and situations happened.

Captain Morgans Spiced Rum aint too bad.

Never been a big fan of Vodka. I can drink it, but it's a bit meh.

Wine aint bad either if I can actually find a decent bottle, the problem is most shops in my area only sell cheap piss that has neither flavour nor kick.

Other than that, if it has a percentage, I'll likely try it.

Several blind tests have shown that price has absolutely nothing to do with the actual taste. Preconceived perceptions has though, like if it's "supposed" to be a good wine. Which is also why many wine producers have 2 labels for the exact same wine, 1 luxurious and expensive and 1 cheap.

Belgian beer

/thread


Edit: Happy birthday btw

You are correct Sach however...


...I've tried them. Most of it is shit I wouldn't use to clean my toilet.

Now while there might be some really dreadful wines out there I suspect, but I'm not entirely sure, you are victim of this.

http://www.slashfood.com/2011/04/15/blind-tasters-cant-tell-cheap-wines-from-expensive/ (http://www.slashfood.com/2011/04/15/blind-tasters-cant-tell-cheap-wines-from-expensive/)
http://y2kemo.com/2011/04/blind-taste-test-reveals-wine-snobs-are-douchebags/ (http://y2kemo.com/2011/04/blind-taste-test-reveals-wine-snobs-are-douchebags/)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/frontal-cortex/2012/06/wine-taste.html (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/frontal-cortex/2012/06/wine-taste.html)

Btw why would you use wine to clean a toilet, it would stain an awful lot wouldn't it :P

Local corner shop wines are piss 9 times out of 10 in my local area. I've actually tried one or two half decent wines, some of them were even cheap. However, after trying a good bulk of them (And promptly going back to beer due to cost efficiency for getting drunk) I'd come to the conclusion they aren't worth it.

It looks like you've just found yourself a fun little label and want somebody to throw it on Sach.

What label would that be?

Anyway, like I said, I wasn't entirely sure.

Ure that fat and just 20? Drink mineral water !
Well fag it up with Aperol

Exactly, alcohol is both empty calories and fattening. It's the last thing you should be drinking.

Sucks to not live in Germany.

Beer comes in so many types and flavours some tasty and some not. From wheat beers to honey, hemp to berries if you haven't haven't found one you like its probably because you haven't tried enough.

My favourite

http://www.coolbeer.com/ (http://www.coolbeer.com/)

Little brewery about 5 min away from me uses all natural ingredients, but also like some of the various ciders out there (strongbow.) And find dark beer quite nice with dinner.

Honestly the best drink you are ever going to drink is Malt Og applesin (http://www.nordicstore.net/images_products/icelandic_soft_drinksegils_malt_appelsin_509big.jpg) Mixed with Vodka, Its like an orgy of awesomeness in your mouth, as long as you dont drown the drink in vodka tough.

Whiskey and vodka in the same category. Dafaq?

He bunched up all the spirits in the same category.

At first they were separate, then I had to ask myself... If I separate those two, do I separate rum as well, sake? How about all them other drinks. So basically, spirits, easier that way, just say in the post if you prefer one or the other, it's basically a hard liquor vs beer/wine kind of thing anyway.

FAt
Spliff and CubRa LibRe

Nothing beats a really good, cold beer in terms of price-efficient fun. Order a few pints, sit down with a few mates and just watch the time fly as you sip through the night. Even better - a shit beer won't stop you from doing that either - and if the conversation starts stalling you can just start complaining about the shitty beer.

Absolutely love rum for it's versatility (Captain Morgan's Spiced being my rum of choice). Drink it raw, make a nice mulled grog, or put a dash into your tea for a bit of flavour. It's just all around awesome.

However my favorite drink would definitely be Vermouth (mm Martini Bianco). Put on a suit, mix in a wine-glass with some orange juice+vodka and drown everyone around you in pretentious assholeish-ness.

Cider and Wine are only good for ensuring the worst hangovers you've ever had.

I applauding you on your ignorance. Deadbolt because the us constantly makes fantastic beers as good as any where in Europe. Its sad that wherever you live doesn't have good American beer and the fact that our biggest exports are piss water.but I assure you we do make fantastic beer.

Also to answer someone else's question. Yes even if its made with corn its still vodka, it's made with anything from grain, wheat. Or even potatoes.

Yea the US has got some pretty amazing microbreweries to be honest, not all their beer is shite :p. That being said, BELGIUM FTW

Worst hangover for me came from a night of Rye, goddamn i wanted to die in the morning. It was the only time i ever was unable to get up in the morning.

My worst hangover was in the earlier days when one drinks whatever is thrown at you... In that case it involved anything from cider to beer trough cocktails whiskey and vodka all in one night... Oh god, the next day, I thought I was going to die, and I wish I was kidding  :D

NZ at least has the best beer ADS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn7u5XvupSU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAmJEqBSBqI

I feel like anyone who says "____ is shit" just hasn't had a good version of it.

Saying all beer is crap? That seems pretty crazy to me, there are all types of beers, light, heavy, dark, hoppy, fruity, watery, low proof and high proof, you may have just not found one you enjoy. Also I found that some people a taste for beer comes later, because our palettes change with age.

Same with wine and spirits. At first you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between bottom and top shelf stuff, but with experience, it doesn't take too long to know when something is good. Even something flavorless like vodka you can tell after a bit (though it's quite a bit harder).

What can I say? I laughed.

All beer I have ever tasted, tasted like crap for me. I could go on a quest around the world to find the potential beer that I like but I really don't see the point when there's already so much I like to drink.

I don't decline tasting a new beer though if anyone asks me and pays for it. But since I'm male it isn't very often that happens :P

As a seasoned drinker, for whiskey i would suggest glenfiddich. Its a Scotch whiskey and comes in ages of 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 years iirc
2 and 4 are the cheapest fetching about $40-$60 a bottle and the 32 yro fetching a whopping $400 a bottle.

Also if you can aquire it VAT 69 is an excellent drop. I went through 2 bottles on my 21st, and its still hazy  :) :) :D

I don't know why but I can't stand beer. The bitter taste of hop/malt from the most beer sorts is just sickening.

For the Whiskey'Lovers in this thread:
I can recommend a "Irish Mist" - It's not a expensive one but it's a (Honig) Whiskey Liqueur and therefore a  awesome alternation if you want to taste something different. There is a lot of other cool stuff but this is one of my favourites.

Highland Park (Single Malt) and Dimple (Blended) is in addition to the XIIcorps mentioned Glenfiddich a reasonable choice too.

beer, good german beer xD

RakI !!

Captain Morgan also good one (with cola)

don't really drink unless i'm with the wife as she likes to drink every now and then.

other wise, i wont bother and I dont really like the smell of a lot of liquors

I've been confused ever since the day some1 told me that beer contains the female hormone. I feel guilty drinking beer now, imagining my ballsack shrinking a tiny bit everytime I have a beer.

Cold Henesey whiskey with ice, all u need or Absoliut vodka, Russkyj Standart Silver vodka

4 for wine? Oh you better be either girls or over 35  :D

That's just a ridiculous assumption

idd, wine is nice

Wine is another drink that has so much variety saying its for a 'type' of person is just moronic.

I was helping babysitting 2 kids for friend - she married american, but boy did I underestimate differences between raising up american kids and ours - small boy genuinelly believed he can do anything without consequnces (usa way yay), I was so close to punching him in face!

Anyway after 6 hours of terror and disbelief, she saw my tension and ordered her hubby to bring me bottle on way from airport.

So here I am 4th day sipping last drops of Zacapa 23 Solera Gran Reserva Rum. No sights of hangover yet. Highly recomended, i dig the flavour

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28921647.jpg)

lol deadbolt, thx man I am sending the pic to her right naow, not sure if to add another caption like 'I do it only for blowjobs' or something heh

Because that's impossible in other countries right? I mean, it's not like USA isn't made up of 1 type of parent only.

Its only that she told me, that american way is to not ever hit the kid and let them be more free, expressive or something.

But I recall its somewhat very restrictive how you can deal with children in usa anyway.

So it was stressful to not be able to put him in his place with 'last power option' snd he was clearly abusing it, little brat.

So thats why 4 day rum rehab for me :D

Where not all like honey boo boo


Can somone please refer me a good cheap whiskey they import/make around in america?

That's quite a blanket statement, I didn't know Europeans were stupid enough to believe things like that (see what I did there?)  But trust me, its not that way all around I was hit, given hot sauce, got the belt, and worst than that, I had to do military exercise!  But trust me there's many ways to raise your kid. And you know what? I had a friend that was never hit as a kid and he was a fucking pussy who never finished anyt

I see what you did there  ;)

not all families raise their kids that way but it's increasingly becoming that way. I think it comes down to parents being more busy and more options to give kids to entertain themselves with.

in the past we worked less hours and spent more time with children, now we work more hours and spend less time with anybody important and when we do go out, it's reckless.

Thats why Americans are so big, we're always moving so we go for high calorie options that satisfy us in a short amount of time.

I never raised my son that way, his mom gives him a bit more leeway than I do but i'm a pretty tough parent. I'd rather not hit but I always warn him before I do and I do it in the "legal way" an open palm on his butt, different from how I grew up but still effective and if you do it hard enough it gets their attention, especially when they're young.

also, chastising a child while you're angry is always bad, you don't think clearly.

In the past people worked more but then the children were involved because most people worked from home with farming, craftsmanship etc.

This might come as a shock to some of you, but you can raise a child sternly to become obedient WITHOUT hitting them. Amazing!

I live in the USA, my daughter is 5. Punishment depends on offense. If she is just being whiny or whatever, timeout in a corner. If that escalates to a tantrum, close the door and leave after telling her she has to calm down and have her time out. IF she keeps escalating she gets 1 smack on the rear. Never had it go beyond that.

If something is genuinely dangerous, like playing with a light socket or running into the street/parking lot, it's an immediate smack.

Don't have many issues with her at all.

How did a thread about alcohol end up on how to raise kids street? lol

Anyway, I absolutely agree you can easily raise kids without having to resort to physical punishment, but I don't necessarily think some minor forms of physical punishment are child abuse, like some people would say. (Obviously though there are people who do abuse their children, and they should just the children taken away from them)

Psychological punishment is far more effective anyways.

Not always, it doesn't get the point across nearly as fast and is far less memorable.

You're not inventive enough.

I'm just sending my kids to military school the first time they misbehave. Or get anything under A+ at school.

Either that or I'll hang up a bunch of pictures of some random kid in my house, and anytime my kids ask about the person in the pictures I'll explain.. It's your older brother. You probably don't remember him. You're never going to see him - you see, he misbehaved once when you were just a baby...

Hahahaha, that is so cruel. And awesome.

this i can sign on.  however it would be for me inappropriate to interfere with their family methods, i was just pointing out that this difference in approach (they do not do any physical 'reminders' and imho kid just try to push you where your borders are if you are stranger) just drove me crazy to warrant me a bottle to balance me our :D

ugh, how do me and ampm agree. thats how i do it. not totally but i'll take him off his game, or he has to go to the other room. he acts up way less with me than his mom cuz he knwos whats up

Yeah, and then your kid will get really fucked up because he had such a terrible childhood where his parents just beat him up all the time. You can discipline your children without hitting them. In the military when people don't behave they don't bring up a whip and start torturing people, they make you do push-ups or peel potatoes.

But yeah apathy is the solution. I mean, it's easier to lose yourself in drugs than it is to cope with life. It's easier to steal what you want than it is to earn it. It's easier to beat a child than it is to raise it. Hell, love costs: it takes effort and work.

Sorry to disappoint you but you are basically monsters, your kid probably hates you and someday you'll probably wake up with a hammer lodged into your brain because of it. Lazy fucking nitwits.

The presence of physical punishment doesn't necessary mean that you beat the child all the time. Hell, like I said, it's all about the psychological aspect. The threat of the physical punishment is there for when children are going through phases of disobedience; it doesn't necessarily need to be enforced all the time, but it's useful to make an example every so often.

It certainly doesn't result in a scarred childhood. If anything, it's an important lesson in heirarchy.

If I had kids I would just ban the little fuckers......

LOL

Step 1: Have kids
Step 2: Ban em
Step 3: ??????
Step 4 :profit.

I'm willing to bet Pony is a victim.

So Pony, what do you do if the child refuses to go along with good punishment? You put then in a timeout or whatever and they say Fuck it and go play. You have just lost any control.

Children like discipline, their job is to push boundaries. The parents job is to enforce them. My daughter prefers to be with me over her mother who does not beleive in physical punishment. Why? Because I dont punish without an explanation of what she did that was wrong and why. No matter what the punishment is she understands why its happening and what the rules are.

Oh yea, in the military that system works because they can enforce it with physical punishment, jail and lack of pay.

Children need to get beaten if they fuck up. Didnt hurt me in the long run, on the contrary I have respect for authorities and know how to behave.

Kids nowadays feel safe from harm, because as soon as someone touches them they scream rape and off they go. No respect fucked up behaviour and people get killed.

And all that could have been solved by giving them a nice slapsgiving.

One could also argue the exact opposite, that children that do get hit by their parents are more likely to be violent.

Because it teaches them that violence is ok, puts spite in their heart and undermines trust in the people they ought to trust the most: their parents.

Baine, just because there is a lack of discipline does not mean they would be better off if someone hit them.


Yes, that is exactly what most studies and research shows. Also important to note is that a large majority of criminals and criminal insane have one thing in common: their alcoholic parents beat them up and their shitty childhood drove them to crime and that just one of many similar examples so don't tell me it doesn't have any effect on their psychological health.

Care to reference these studies and pieces of research?

thats being beaten up, not disciplined. theres a difference

Yeah. There's a difference between discipline and violence

Like, say - if somebody went and beat heartmann up bloody we'd all be like what the fuck man.
However, if somebody went and took a sledgehammer to deadbolt's ribs nobody would so much as shrug.

You see the difference between those two situations? Same with kids.

Also, zero punishment to kids leads to this, rather than anything else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFwkv14u3b4

clearly youre as dillusional as him, discipline teaches kids to respect and know the boundaries a lot faster so theres no pussyfooting around. usually a good smack on the arse, slap of the hand etc. im not sayin cave the kids face in like what he was referring to in alcoholic parents beating kids for no reason. theres clearly a line

Deadbolt, I wasn't being sarcastic. I know, hard to tell with me.

see thats easier sarcasm to understand, your format beforehand let you down

Look at the bald guy spazzing out in your sig.

There's one very big problem with that thinking. A person that is abusing their children will most likely not view it as abuse themselves, but as discipline. You wont know that you are one if you are one.

Punishment doesn't have to be violence, or "discipline" as you put it, to work.

Eh, I'm not a very physical person. A simple smack on the ass is as far as I'd go really in terms of "violence".

Nah, anyone who knows me would be aware that I'd keep my kids in an iron fist of psychological terror.

That's all it ever should be.

It doesn't have to be violence, but when your first responses don't work, its time wack somebody in the butt.

And a wack on the butt is definitly NOT going too far.

i think we should all comment upon child raising after we've done it, im not even sure what traditional child rearing claims hitting your kid after it does something wrong is supposed to produce

as for beating your kid i received physical punishment a few times and you know what, i cant honestly make a statement about whether it improved or devolved my development.

i know you arent supposed to generalize from 1 event to a rule, but who honestly think they can claim what worked or not on themselves? the human mind doesn't work that way in my world.

Whatever is your current goal will make you attribute event x or y in the past to reach your "now" or you would be faced with a extent of randomness or lack of control which.. i guess would not make you unable to post on a forum, but you would not care about what you said or what the response was

that is quite a disturbing chain of "revelations" really *lights up*

also funny how a thread about drink ends up being about beating kids

It's also intriguing how you made 3 posts in a row.

Really, do you not know of the edit function?

A favorable attempt.

Do you know the words of Buddha?

"Meditation brings wisdom; lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back, and choose the path that leads to wisdom."

"First you have to break the idols of the old gods, then you may take aflight again."

"You think Darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it. Molded by it. I never saw the light until I was already a man, and then I found it BLINDING"

hope you new age emos will teach somehow this growing up, out of line kids that freaking out and pushing someone borders can bear consequences. To me it seems, that kid raised up by very benevolent standards tend to be somehow sure they can verbally abuse and nothing can happen, you know they are used to it that baddest what can happen is hour long talk session with mommy.

this young woman occurs to me was probably never disciplined by her father, otherwise she would remember, i am sure as I remember till today 'my first freak out' corrected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M6iAxFyAOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vAYGSlYHKoo#!

btw, I pity all you scando pussies as I recall that funny comparison emo-viking pic, your next generations gonna be butthurt feminized working slaves laughed by imigrants while marching through malmo as part of G(u)ay Pride parade...

also this one special goes to deadbolt

(http://i.imgur.com/1T4iT.gif)

You are so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. You're to this subject what Jodomar is to politics.

no it's true. I see alot of kids today who think they can say whatever they want to other people, their parents and they dont get consequences. I dont know their discipline structure at home but i see it aloooot now, more so than when i was younger.

Growing up, i wouldn't dare talk back to my parents, know why? They'd pop me in the mouth and while that doesn't really hurt, it's annoying as heck.

Just listen to what he says.

"btw, I pity all you scando pussies as I recall that funny comparison emo-viking pic, your next generations gonna be butthurt feminized working slaves laughed by imigrants while marching through malmo as part of G(u)ay Pride parade..."

In a single sentence he manages to express homophobia, xenophobia, at least 1 fallacy and sweeping generalisations. Add on top of that the bizarre and childish language.

perfect logic tym, something doesn't work? hit on it with a stick. it still doesnt work? hit it some more.

The guy's clearly a total tool, or a troll.

being called tool by a guy who has claimed to be a map lead for mod, yet lazy to do a 5min job of uploading maps when several active members like begged him, to fend of them he has no time to see him play DOTA later, this is amusing at least...

ad-hominem attacks are cool when you dont know how to address arguments. It seems some of you still dont get grasp of what the difference is in word 'to discipline' someone. You readilly jump on the child abuse bandwagon imagining us to beat the crap out of kids or something. AMpm summed it up clearly I think. Sometimes children are trying how far they can go and if you dont have power as last resort some of them will form some habits haunting them in future, its opinion of some of us. Its your fight how you raise your own, my remarks where only about that, to me it seems it partly started with Sweden and its advanced socialist state with equality/emancipation movement some 30-40 years ago. Its only natural the nowadays generations takes it for granted that this is like it is. Same as 3rd gen bigbrother chidren would take it normal that a person has to have mounted camera on forehead for the security of state all the time. However rest of world seems to stick with proven hierarchy and social practices when raising kids and to me It seems they are laughing their asses of our modern western ways - It is simply weaknes. So enjoy your social experiments and dont hate olskoolers for their ways and opinion, as I said it will be your children coping with consequences...

Maybe immigrants snarky remark around malmo was over the top, I think it will be enough if in this new globalized world your future kids soon meet kids from russia... I feel your 'talking way' will show

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/johannburkard/rERd5gyALb4elMb8eIzQSTE3SjSXculm0D1guNM7Oy9M1dAz3rtsJAqYHqJr/1222362347845.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1351276574&Signature=62LHKYEIw3WuH9E%2FfAT%2BvsCx48Y%3D)

There is a lot of psychological research on the subject and there is no evidence that shows that children are better off with physical punishment. There is however a lot of evidence that shows that it negatively effects their mental health. The extent of the crime doesn't really matter. If you shoplifted instead of robbing banks, would that make you an angel? Also what you say and what you do are usually different. If I was a wife beater and child beater would I publicly tell everyone about it? of course not, I would lie like the little coward I am. A small punishment may be a lot for a small kid to handle. Children are fragile things and who's to say it doesn't escalate into something more serious with broken bones as a result. Because that's what usually happens, if people have no moral standpoint and find it acceptable to injure family members then what barrier is there to keep it from getting worse?

That kids today are not well behaved is a different issue entirely. The problem is that parents enforce no discipline at all, they spoil their children and they never have time to spend with them. Sure, some things may piss you off, like when an old man gets kicked down and gets his legs broken by some young hoodlums, you wish you were there for some real eye for an eye justice, make them suffer like the old man has. But the truth is, just because they had bad or non-existent parents doesn't mean they would be better off if someone hit them. That may be even the reason why they would do such an awful thing. Because children who receive physical punishment are more likely to be aggressive and violent.

You keep saying "Psychological research" but you keep failing to provide any references to any studies.

As somebody who has put a fair amount of study time into Psychology, this is getting quite irritating.

These were the top results when searching for "psychological studies physical child punishment". Next time search yourself.

http://www.slideshare.net/srjojofma/psychological-effects-of-corporal-punishment-manuscript3
http://www.nospank.net/n-d66.htm
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2002/06/spanking.aspx
http://www.psychpage.com/family/disc.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/great-kids-great-parents/201008/spanking-and-other-physical-punishments-revisited
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110726111109.htm


http://www.lsa.umich.edu/psych/news/department/news/?id=458

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19222684
http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-discipline.html

Study links physical punishment to later mental disorders
By Michelle Healy, USA TODAY



Look! I can cherry pick studies and entries too!!

If you want, we can keep going.

There is a massive difference between corporal punishment, and a spanking. Corporal punishment would be things like caning, beatings, using a belt, slapping, etc.

Lets keep going!!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110726111109.htm


Seems a little bit more than a spanking.


Lets read on shall we?


So, if delivered properly, it has the same effect and no negatives.


So the punishments, which were similar to in each group in the home environment did not change anything, suggesting that the public use of such punishment is the detrimental part.


AKA, the study basically showed nothing.

Lets move on shall we?

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx


Wait a minute....so the detrimental effect is the uncontrolled escalation by a parent? Hmmm...


Well that's stupid, you should never ever punish a child in anger or frustration. That is a lack of control on the parents part.


Interesting...

Anyway, if anyone wants to actually read, and not just post links with a highlight of the title, go ahead. They all agree that limited use of physical punishment is fine, and becomes an issue only when it continues to escalate or is used commonly due to the parent not using any alternatives.

There's only about 2 reputable sources there, APA and Science Daily (although the latter is still somewhat questionable).

Are you serious? Most of the article state that the extent of the punishment doesn't matter, it still shows the same effects. Also I didn't cherry pick. I picked up every result I found. I didn't want to spend hours because the list was so long.


Yeah, I'm sure 90% of studies done on the subject are wrong. This is not some radical studies, these are universally agreed on facts in psychology.

Not wrong, but horribly biased. If you look for something you will find it, one way or another.

I do wonder how many confounding variables got mixed in with all that "Research".

Most modern psychological research is a crock of shit these days tbh. They either get dumped with far too many confounding variables and cherry picking to be viable studies or fall victim to ethical/procedural chokeholds.

Oh, and just so that I KNOW you haven't even read those studies properly:

"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."

That's from the APA study.

It's not part of the study, it's a response to it.

Now show me the 10 studies where it says that lenient corporal punishment is better than more humane disciplinary methods.

When you want people to believe your opinion you make a biased study about it using something that is hardly even a science.

So you want me to go do exactly what you did, and cherry pick 10 studies to support my opinion?

No thanks.

Actually, if you read the articles you would see that the use of the punishment in a judicial manner is not an issue, nor does it cause problems with the child.

It is only when it is used excessively, usually due to anger or frustration (aka, beating your child) that it becomes an issue.

People also forget how much worse psychological trauma can be

Discredit the sources? that's the best you can do? yes ofc, modern psychology is just hoax.


So stupid. I already said that I did not cherry pick, I simply used all the information I could find on the subject. Something that you would also have found if you had searched for information or if you had studied psychology at any educational level.


The difference is that harsh corporal punishment cause very serious physical and psychological problems where as lenient corporal punishment cause only minor physical and psychological problems. The result, ie a well behaved kid, can also be archived by using other disciplinary methods which takes longer time but does not have any of the defects.

This right here, is why I point blank refuse to hold a discussion with you from this point, on frankly any level. I was hoping that your inability to hold a coherent argument without resorting to attack the other person was contained to just EiRR balance.

Apparently, you seem to be like that in other areas too. Disappointing tbh.

/Exit thread to find something better to do.

What argument? You are just being a nuisance. I don't mind explaining things, but are you are just being rude and mean about it. It's like you ask a person for help and then push him down a cliff.

First you can't be arsed to search for yourself so I bring you the information and then it's not good enough. Why did you ask for the information if you were just going to be reluctant about it? and then even though I explicitly explained how I found the articles you have to assume that there is some major fallacy with what I presented for no logical reason other than to be a jerk.

Pony, you're arguing from a point of false inference.


Is basically saying that "loads of X causes loads of Y so THEREFORE small amounts of X cause small amounts of Y". Seems logical, until applied to anything where economies of scale are not constant. I.e - "Loads of caffeine will cause severe health problems and death. So small amounts of caffeine (say, 1 espresso) must therefore cause mild health problems".

Think about what people are telling you. Nobody is saying "beating kids up is the only way they'll learn". They're not even saying that you should use a belt, use a cane or slap the child. They're saying that if the child continues to misbehave you give them one or two slaps on the ass.
You know, the form of physical punishment that is hardly even painful due to the biology of the common human ass (go ask your girlfriend to slap your ass with an open palm with reasonable strength (I doubt anyone's proposing haymaker blasts to the rump here) and see what happens. I doubt you'll be moved to tears with the excruciating pain and debilitating mental trauma).

^ right, it's not painful but it's a heck of a shock to a little kid.

Yes, you are right, I thought about that as well and I agree to some extent, I still think you can archive discipline with other methods but in essence I think it's ok for people to have different opinions as long as there is no serious harm. But it's sickening to see that some people are so thick-minded that they can read a professional study and then come up with a billion excuses, for why it's not educational. Twist and misinterpret, just so it fits your own truth.

That's the thing: a lot of "professional studies" are made with the results already in mind. People essentially get paid to fill in the blanks in those kinds. A lot of those sources you posted would come from traditionally biased organizations who have an agenda when formulating such a study that, say, the APA would not. I'm reminded of one of my favourite quotes from Catch-22: "The case against Clevinger was open and closed. All that was missing was something to charge him with."

Alright, since you're so damned persistent, and seem to want to continue to attack me even though I left this debate, I'll give you one last reply before turning in to bed.

These "Professional studies" that you went and did a 10 minute google search for, are for the most part studies made with an agenda. Made with a purpose.

Here's the biggest and best example for why a good chunk of psychological research is done in the UK for example: University credits. People do pieces of psychological research purely to put progress to their degrees that they are working towards. In this light, successful research looks a whole lot better than unsuccessful research which has "Learned a lesson from it". People will take "Safe" socially accepted subjects and "Study" them and come up with "Obvious" answers that most people will "Supposedly" already know. My old Psych lecturer referred to these studies as NSS (No Shit Sherlock) studies. Now that's fair enough for progressing careers, I mean shit, they've gotta start somewhere. However, this means that the actual number of significant studies with solid methods and results are shockingly few.

So no. I'm really not fucking convinced by your 10 minute google search for the first page or two of results from personal/media/career driven individuals that have already decided the outcome of the research before they've finished planning it.

The only pieces of research that you'll find that quickly with significant results are usually OLD studies. Stuides which were applicable to the time in which they were conducted, and with the utterly huge society change we've had over the past 30-40 years, most of them are useful as base-line guidance at best.

I've actually opened up a book of BPS (British Psychological Studies) conducted for a specific year, can't quite remember which year the book was for, but I do remember that it took be 30-45 minutes of reading before I found something remotely useful.

You wanna accuse me of being thick-minded? Be my guest, but open your own damned eyes before accusing others of having theirs closed.

Yes, some studies are biased, sometimes there is commercial or political gain but these studies usually have obvious logical fallacies. But some things are universally agreed on and those things are the core of education.

Science is not based on ideals, opinion is.

You can't base research on what you hope to find or what fits your view.

Yes, I may have worded it incorrectly. It's not what I meant.

My point is that science is not as commercially or politically bound as it was in the past so instead of an ideological core it has a scientific core. So assuming that every study is hoax will probably never get you any answers.

Everything is commercially and politically tied, those that aren't don't get funding. Its not a conspiracy, its simply that why would you fund something you don't care about?

Just goes to show how much you know about Sweden  ::)

Here's some homework for you: find out which countries in the world spend the most on surveillance and which has the most cameras. Dicatorships+USA+UK hint hint.

Besides your conclusion that not hitting your child leads to a police state is just absurd. Or perhaps that was just a general "SWEDEN SUCKS!" post?

It didn't seem to be necessarily a crack against Sweden, it was just an exposition.

this thread is about booze, not your higher intelligence debates, less yabber more booze

i like belgian witbier

Hoegaarden? God, I hate white beer.

Just came back from Romania,and boy,is there beer cheap! YOu can get 6-pack(6x 0.5L cans) for 2.2 euro,worst thing is it's actually good! More expensive beer like Heiniken you pay around 65cents. Now I have to get back to cheap beer in plastic 2L bottle,which is more expensive than Romania one,and tastes like shit compared to it  ::)

Spaaten optimator

hefe-Weisse dunkel

how could you

Hes just angry because good country is make believe.

Why didn't you just list Hard liquor? I'm not much for Whiskey or vodka but I drink rum as my preference

Wouldn't that fall under (Spirits)?