COH: Europe In Ruins

Flammenwerfer Halftrack: Rarely used, way too expensive, compare its effectiveness to that of the croc and then the relative costs, enough said.
Stuka zu Fuss: Rarely used (doctrinal, usually non doctrinal...): Rarely used due to massive costs and high vulnerability to counter artillery/airborne.
Halftrack: Rarely used, highly susceptible to RR sniping.
Nebelwerfer: Used seldom, expensive in relation to capabilities an dallied counterpart (closest would be the calliope). It has a short range, horrible damage and is highly vulnerable to everything.

You may see these weapons on the field occasionally, but the important point I'm making is that they are used rarely because they are weak and highly cost ineffective.

There are various other weapons you will rarely see on the axis side, such as the flak88, whose main purpose is to waste off map artillery strikes and calliope time. But they still have some purpose (even if it's just soaking damage).

I also wanted to ask, why were some allied doctrinal units, made non doctrinal in EiR, whilst non doctrinal axis units were made doctrinal in EiR..... This has screwed with the balance quite badly in some instances and I think that these circumstances are apparent to veterans here far more than myself.

What I am saying isn't to make the axis more powerful, or due to imbalances, but rather to increase diversity and allow these units to be used once more.

One unit on allied side that was made non-doctrinal from doctrinal?

airbourne can drop zooks... kind of doctrinal crossover but thats the best i got.

None of the allied units that had been doctrinal were made nondoctrinal.  The triage center was nondoctrinal in vCoH and was tied to infantry company here, but that's about the only change.

I disagree with all of your unit statements aside from the halftrack, but the halftrack has such limited application in EIR (vCoH as well) that it's not an issue.

Really? I use this all the time.

Honestly both of these arty pieces are *very* powerful, and the nebel is NOT used seldomly, it is not a damage dealing weapon - it is a suppression tool and *VERY* good at its job

The flamenwerfer is actually used quite a bit, and its cheap given its versatility - The price was raised to its current level a while back because when it was cheaper it was spammed like crazy

the halftrack price and pop is a result of all the halftrack variants being unable to modify the population cap and not wanting to modify the core price of the unit, probably is a bit UP since it takes so long to load units into it but such is life

I'd suggest you get some more in-game time before laying down the law about what sucks and is not used, because your pretty incorrect tbh

Ahh Flametrack I loved that unit in VCoH Although it was very weak to US MGs that had almost free AP Rounds in their MGs that could tear them apart. Still useful in VCoH Vs british who has no early counters on it besides a stuart or a early squad spam of Brens and or Bren carrier with upgrade.

In EiR I used it once. Aye once, its desteny, eh it got one shotted by a AT Gun or well down to slight bit of health then it went kaboom. It really brings lack of use. One MG team with AP rounds can take care of a Flametrack, its not Too expensive in my taste however the manpower cost in it just boring, should be cheaper in that case I agree. Since RR is top vs Light armour Halftracks automatically becomes useless vs airborne unless you disturbe them and force them to move all the time. Thats hard since usually it goes kaboom before that.

around 50 games I've only seen 2 times a Flametrack being used. In both cases it was easily knocked out, stickies deals nice vs them and AP Rounded MG rapes them, eh Tank reaper one shots it, AT AP Rounds almost one shots it, ÁT Without anything cool two shots it on front armour or simply damages and then gets shot by rifle fire or stickied. It needs more micro than a croc does. Croc is fairly easier in use. It can withstand more damage but hey its a tank after all unlike German Flamethrower half-track. Rest in Peace little toy I miss you but I'll see you in VCoH! <3

umm ive seen everything its just the players you see use it? all the nubs wont use some of these weapons, while all the good players ive seen have  anebel

Nebels are a must have.

And stukas as well. In the hands of a competent player, if you have multiple stukas out, they can be just as or even more effective than a calliope.

Only if you´re defensive.... nebels are a must have for any axis.

The great thing about Stukas is their accuracy and mobility. They are strong against AT guns.

Dare I say they might be the only vehicular counter to Tank Reapers.

i have to agree Stukas are very effective and i have seen many use by different players.  Nebels arent bad either special with there insta supress powers.

Ampm would beg to differ on the effectiveness of the stuka in the game we just played. And my own experience with the stuka leaves much to be desired.

AoE too small, spread too far, frequently hits anything but the target zone even with LOS. If you're depending on the stuka to have the same effectiveness as the howitzer or calliope at pushing forward to take territory, you're likely going to lose.

There's lots of unused units on both sides.

Here's what I rarely use.

Mortar's, AP rounds (mg and at), Hmg bunker, Demo's, non quad HT, sniper (maybe every now n then when I feel like it) it happens on both sides, and the reason there are more on axis? well...they've got more stuff!!! Duh...

also, the allies have to use more combined arms to defeat axis units. Like a tiger, you usually have to throw 3-4 tanks at it, use stickies, zooks, rr, at guns just to kill that one tank, ditto panther, KT. Sherman? Just get urself a double schreck squad or a cloaked pak...which is also a great counter to TR, you can still take it out cuz the health is on the infantry and not the at gun.

calliope is utterly insane, you are a retard.

oh that's very constructive and a great addition to this conversation. Why say anything at all?

Nebels are a waste of effort and resources :P

only if u dont know how to use 'em right. Some people can't use callies right, ditto howitzers etc.

Nebels are a waste :p
Its survivability and cost-effectiveness vs good players gets to 0.
Better now?

Vet 3 Tank Reapers with AP rounds, I think it 3 shots a Tiger? I used to use that combo all the time before I deleted my account.

Also, you are making a grave error using all that to kill a tank. If so, just leave the tank alone and focus on the other units while the tank sits out of AT range and if he comes in, pop OProunds.

Nebels are fine, got a company with 5 of them and 83% win rate...

Thats a different matter, cause even if you lose 2-3 you could still have more to field.

sometimes you have to kill the tiger because it's impedeing ur progress, especially if   you're on offense. Say you're losing pop and you have to take territory, killing that tiger is a must if it's sitting in the terrorites u have to cap and is beign  used as a roving defense.

Congratz on playing the lamest T4 in the game.

You don't need vet 3 to kill a tiger with 3 shots.
You don't even neccecarily need AP rounds.
And rear, you not even need 3 shots.

Gettint tired of Ab killign you? 

GGEt convition, get 5 Flamenwaffens on the field... Pop conviction... watch RRs Miss as you burn the fuck out of them. 

MMMMMm Roasted alliees in the morning. 

Flamenwaffens.. 5 pop cap, Not a high dmg dealer, get it to vet 2 and u get 10-20 dmg increase. MMMMMM Thats tasty  airborne in the mroning.

In retail you can reinforce your units from halftracks, which is their PRIMARY purpose.

In EIR this primary purpose is removed, and no alternate purpose is put in its place. If the design team read this, I would suggest thinking of something to make the halftrack useful again :)

You can Cap Territory with them faster and transport infantry and use them as support weapons vs infantry (Riflemen only Rangers likes to one shot a half-track)

Half-Tracks lost their primary use in VCoH Long time ago...AP rounds on MG and Keep 'em coming! (Axis side that is...for Allies their Half-Track is still useful, noAP rounds on the MG!)

QFT

Get Mysthalin and Tuwix as your axis allies, and watch every single TR AT Gun get pulverised under a hail of 42 rockets every 60 seconds!

Donno about all that.. I've had people try and RA regular AT gun and fail.. don't think it's any easier against TRs.

are you QFTing yourself? O.o

lol i remeber that game

but tankreapers are really strong they two shot a panzer4 and a stug frontal

tankreapers and RR blobs are the things i most fear

they negate most of axis armor

and if they spam cheap discount rifles and rangers on top of tankreapers it is almost GG for me

Stukas are made of awesome, so are nebs ^^. 2 stukas = that "oh shit button" you always wanted as blitz...
Combine that with Rocket Arty, and you get a BIG "OH WTF SHIT! button" that's made of awesome effects ^^.

Uh when was the last time you actually played retail?

If you lose a halftrack to a 30 cal's AP rounds you really need to improve your micro.   The primary purpose of the HT is for reinforcement, early harassment of rifles, and as a suicide drop unit.

It was my PWN Flammenwerfer that got stuck in a hole in St.Hilaire few times and my PUMA that hit on a building and slowly tried to drive away under constant AP Round firing. Its simply not my micro where it lacks because last time I AP rounded M8.
Revenge is so sweet....(captured US HMG)

you ever try getting a TR at gun to vet 3? one the axis figure out you've got TR, they hound ur at guns

Using them as a support weapon is in no way worth their cost as there is always at least light AT on the field if your opponent is smart and/or has units left, though capping territory is a valid argument I suppose.

And the halftrack's use in retail is still, and always was, primarily to reinforce. The American halftrack however lost its use due to prevalence of the tier 2 strats, and since PaKs two-shot them, there's no real way to use them without fear of losing them instantly.

I have gotten multiple TR ATGs to vet 2 and 3. And kept them there for a few games. If you use them right (not at your front line) they will kill ANY axis tank that penetrates. Its that wonderful synergy of Sticky bomb + TR that makes tanks die.

I agree. I absolutely love that but freakin firestorms, stormies, pak sniping, rocket arty, is insane. personally, i play better with my tr company in 3v3's than 2v2's, i dunno why. I think i'll stick to 2v2's with my armor company and 3v3's with my inf.

Of course it is, you can two-shot panthers with them :P

Anyway why are we talking about tank reaper AT guns? They're the definition of "very used and thus strong units", which is the opposite of the topic.

That's not me.

Uh how is that an argument, thats like saying panzer IVs are useless because I got a panzer IV stuck next to 4 riflemen squads and they stickied it to death.

AP rounds on MGs is not the reason halftracks aren't used often, its because in retail their primary purpose is to reinforce, and that purpose does not exist in eir, and thus they have no use.

No you can't. It takes 3 shots. And even with TR you will likely have to use AP rounds to pull that offf reliably. Even then the accuracy can still be shit.

This is because TR is a support role. You do the work of all the ATG's on your side, so that your allies don't need to deploy them and can focus on other units, and you can make the most of your T4. This doesn't work as well in smaller games because Your allie(s) will need you to fill other roles aswell.

Edit: Point being, the more specialized a company is, the more it will excel in large games, and less well in small games.

Depends on the map.


On small maps I would agree, but on huge ones like French Countryside I used to love having one or two halftracks to ferry infantry up to the front.

Cutting that 3 minute travel time down to about 1 was awesome and a huge advantage.

I disagree with the whole AP rounds is why axis HT are not being used.  Couldnt the same be said for pumas then, but you see them quite often harassing.

Technically speaking, yes, but the Panther will only have around 50 HP left, which basically makes it "killed" because it'll either take a good ten minutes to repair (literally, maybe more or less depending on the available repair bunker and pio situation) or die shortly thereafter to an errant MORTAR SHELL :P

nevyen killed a p4 of mine with a mortar shell once... such anger!

Happens all the time. Also stray rifle rounds trigger the "Oh noes we are being fired at" alert that comes up at the side of the screen, once it hit a building that my HMG was sitting in and killed a man... Thats worse.

I have a new one by the way medical kits, unless you are trying to keep that prized dress wearing Pioneer alive, they are not found a lot.

I saw duvka kill a stug with a halftrack once :P

At the cost of 5 pop per half track?

Not in a remotely competative game you are not.

Hmm u think thats bad? Vet 2 sniper + Out of Control Stug = :'(

You think that's bad?  Stray mortar shot + TIGER =  :D

You think that's bad?
Any 5 HP axis tank + one of my AB nades...

You think that´s bad?
A pershing that was killed by a bike but I don´t remember who lol.

Me

Calliope with engine damage vs Volk w/ Assault nades = dead Calli

Yes it happened, think it was Stumpsters Volks too.

Best thing you can do is killing your nearly dead pershing with a grenade while clicking on allied war machine  ::)

What are you talking about?

uhh...this is eir o.O not vcoh, there is no allied war machine