COH: Europe In Ruins

Hay its Lt Apollo and i just finished a new skin, in short i have replaced the officer and KCH models with the KT ace model and reskined it into a black SS style trench coat/great coat. i have tested this extensively and confirmed that it dose not affect online play or EiR despite the inclusion of APP files. This is not historically accurate it is based of WWII propaganda and is in no way supposed to be based on an actual German unit so please lay off the criticism of that part.

O ya the images shown below are from my personal version that will not be released, the reason is because it incorporates a SS armband and i must get a replacement becouse it is widely considered offensive. this will be fixed in the release version.

please post some feedback as i wish to improve this before final release.


(http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/coh-modding-mapping-editing/69435d1233531514-terra-nova-coh-modification-relic00041.jpg)
(http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/coh-modding-mapping-editing/69436d1233531514-terra-nova-coh-modification-relic00044.jpg)
(http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/coh-modding-mapping-editing/69437d1233531514-terra-nova-coh-modification-relic00051.jpg)
(http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/coh-modding-mapping-editing/69438d1233531618-terra-nova-coh-modification-relic00289.jpg)

If you ask me, it looks quite epic. Good work ;)

You should make more closeups from the swastika. Your screenshots did not focus on it enough. Bleh.

Swastika is backwards.  It rotates clockwise.

And it would make Apex a criminal to play with the mod.   

it's just red and white on black so your eyes move on it by yourself

heh nice

It is not criminal, because it is not glorified.

But it's fucking disgusting.

I want the original version. Don't let me be gayed by other countries shitty laws :( please post two :D

I would like a dress uniform for the stormtroopers, considering they're SS :D

please release with swastika. Block it from germans tho.

It won't be going into the mod.

You can however place it in your own skin packs if that is your taste.

playing as wehr is fine, most of them were just normal people doing what they were told etc.. but trying to glorify some of the SS units is silly and sick.   

just my opinnion.

Yeah normal people but you cant forget under what regime those people fight or what that system was and represented.
This is a "game" though and political references should be kept to a minimum :p
Myself i find problematic how you can say this about SS soldiers, and play wehrmacht without any problems :p

Yeah, no one asked for your opinion.

guess i meant skins.. the swazi, i guess this is a skin somebody can put on their own so whatever, as long as its not in the full release is cool.

:P

Most of the Army and Navy did not like hitler,  they fought because they were Germans and germany was at war.  There were several failed attempts to kill hitler by the Army.  And the Navy despised him.

The soldiers at the death camps though and the SS units...  sick and I would hate to see any SS units in a game.

Widely ignored/poorly-known Fact :
Not everyone in the SS and working in laggers liked Hitler, or supported their cause.
Actually, by the end of the war there were drafts into the SS and into the death camps from even occupied lands, such as Lithuania. These people, and even "old-commer" german officers who weren't heartless freaks in the camps did anything they could to help the existence of the convicts. That was usually in the form of food, or at least giving them a job that wouldn't drain them like animals.

Source :
Autobiographic memories of Balys Sruoga in the book Dievu Miskas(Forest of Gods), about his years of conviction in the Stutthoff Death Camp.

Exactly... my grandpa was also forced to join the SS Landstorm Niederlande...
so quit talking about things you think to know.

Hmm, anthony.. think before posting shit.

Did your grandfather work in a deathcamp...

I thought just fine before posting but thanks for your concern.  My opinion still stands, sorry if it disrespects your grandfather.  People always have a choice.  I dont think I could live with myself if someone made me work in a deathcamp, id probably commit suicide. 

Anthony recent researchs showed that wehrmacht was in fact aware of the death camps and the attrocities commited.
You can't isolate the "German" soldiers from the rest of what was happening arbitrarily just by will :p
Im saying this because i know a lot of people want to imagine the german troops as "heroes" who died for the fatherland, unaware of all the shit that was happening :p

You are probably right schultz, but it doesnt really matter, its just bullshit to make a skin like this.

Most definetely.

I don't believe making this skin is offensive in any way.
The players not having it don't see it, so can't be insulted by it ;).

it's all in your perception of reality if you find it offensive or not.

i substitute your reality with mine ,
profit?
win

Knowing about it and participating in it are two different things.  Whether forced or not the workers in the death camps participated in the killings of millions.

I never said German soldiers were heroes, I simply said for the most they were just serving their country.  A war was going on and they were called.  The same thing happens here in the US, a lot of people dont believe the war in Iraq was right including a lot of soldiers, but you dont go and blame the soldiers for the war do you?

You know what the great thing about living in a true democracy is? I'm allowed to download this without fear of my government arresting me, just because I want to. Because when I ban things I dislike, just because I dislike them, I'm no longer a democracy.

These skins are great work and look cool and that's why I will be downloading them. You don't like them? Don't download them, no one is making you, but don't whine at me because I exercise my right to download them.

For those who think the SS were all involved in concentration camps, learn to history, in case you weren't aware the Panzer Lehr division, aka Panzer Elite is an SS division and the stormtroopers in the Wehrmacht faction are also SS. Most SS were soldiers only, people joined to fight communism, but in your propaganda classes you forgot that.

End of the day it doesn't matter, don't like it? Don't download it. But don't try and force your delusions on the rest of us, who do want to download it, maybe we think it's cool, maybe we don't care or maybe we like it, but that's our choice, not yours.

GW Apollo and maybe lengthen the trenchcoats a bit if you can, that would look a lot more epic.

Lehr was not SS, it was built up of training units and Cadre etc..

learn your history.

as i said the swastika is not in the release version as of reasons above, this is a test version and should be treated as such. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS NOT THE RELEASE VERSION THIS IS A PERSONAL TEST VERSION, i am fully aware of the criticism and they will be addressed in the release version. if you wish to have this version though you must email me directly and request it AS THIS IS NOT TO BE RELEASED. the final will have no armband but will include whermatch badges and decals. i am not trying to glorify the SS, i personally hate them but i decided to experiment with the new APP file technology and thus it was born, by all means don’t download the finnal version if you are offended.

Your taste sucks boy.

lol, i used to be like that.. always playing axis and german stuff and saying i like to display german tanks and things..

then a funny thing happened, went to hawaii and peral harbor, and meet a bunch of ww2 vets, even some from that fateful day.. it really opened my eyes, and well ya, i cant play german anymore, i just get a sick feeling to my stomach.. if somebody wants to do it, fine, thats your choice, but if i want to speak out and say that swazi and the nazis suck my balls, i can too.. as you can display that stuff and play as them.. its all good.

Quoted.


And quoted again.



In case you guys didn't realise, the swastika was originally a Hindu symbol of peace, the Nazis twisted and turned it to something else.

Secondly, you try to block out history, and hide it, that's when it happens again.


Marine is damned brave to post the skin on this forum, and you people should look up at him for that.



Displaying symbols such as the Swastika, do not mean you like what they meant, its a historical symbol, that was meant to mean peace, until the Nazis stole it.



Saying this topic has got "de-railed" is an extreme understatement.

I believe the symbol that the Nazis used was actually a symbol for the Sun, as in some Sun God, not sure though.

Going into battle with such armwraps is not really historically accurate.

True it was more of a Parade Uniform thing was it not? Although from pictures I've seen from Barbarossa, tanks did display large swastikas on there roofs/turrets to assist the air force from identifying friend from foe.

Lol, for Jainism (older than Christianity) the Swastika has the same importance as the cross does to Christians or the symbol of Om to Buddhism, etc.
They make the symbol of it at the beginning and the end of their holy ceremonies several times.
Buddhism it means "All" or "Eternity". Although after the Nazi use of the Swastika, they were forced to make theirs be left facing, to remove association.
Half of Europe also seems to have used it, Greco-Roman, Illyrian, Etruscan, Baltic, Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic.
Native Americans...

Interesting No?

Never mind the fact that, historically, it is the flag of a legally elected Government, no matter what they did during or before their election.


I don't agree with what the Nazis did, they killed 6 million people simply for what they believed in. But in the same way, millions where killed with the "invasion" of the Americas...
People are still alive with memories of WW2, that's one reason why the Nazi's are seen as so much worse than anything else.
I mean, Mongols, in their world invasion, killed over 40 million people, I'm sure the kids of those who died back then, and those who knew about what had happened would have hated any symbol or memory of the Mongols.

Post the Tiger Ace model

Don't force your shit on me, don't like it, don't download it, simple. Ok, boy.

I could make a thousand quotes and posts to proove you wrong, about democracy and freedom but I won't. I will agree to disagree and instead of flaming you, congratulate the maker of the skins, which are of a very high quality and I believe are very impressive.

It's the Tiger Ace model/skin from the vCoH campaign.

Looking good man.

Where do we dump these files again to update?

i am sory but i can not post the skin files hear. if you want it you must email me for this version or wait for the "clean release". this version is for privet use only for obvious reasions and that is why i can not post it. i will post clean version in a days time when i fix the bugs and clean it up.

email is comander.apollo@yahoo.com

also befor any one post PLEASE READ THE OPENING POST as i fully express the reasions behind this there and i do not want this thread to be deraild again.

Lt Apollo

Ps: this is NOT a historical skin, it is a PROPAGANDA inspired skin.

lol Dragon you do realize that it matters not from what they stole it.
We're discussing about a thing in a game about WWII not a rabine initiation ceremony..

Your analogies are all bad, maybe we should go back to the prehistoric age and compaire nazis to the dinosaurs, im sure early humanoids hated their guts as well :p

And pls Manfred stop talking about democracy on a public forum about the right to use a nazi symbol on a game. Its just "awkward" to say the least.
Do what you want on your private life, dress up with the swastika and danse on the pale moonlight with the devil for all we care.
Apollo is to be respected for his choice to treat this as a public forum, something you dont understand.

Anyway, i jumped in here to comment on something Anthony said, not to castrate on your democratic rights  ::) ;D

I just have one question before the attacks come to my front, APEX, why do you seem to have a personal thing/censorship (almost closed mind point of view) about German History? and especially the SS? Are you of Jewish background by any chance?


Let along anyone?

Pih, you guys really don't have something smarter to do in your life than beating a dead horse?    :-[

How about you respect peoples views for what they are instead of trying to pick and naw at them like a fat kid at a cake shop.

oh chill out, i doubt anyone here is a jew hater or actually believes in the nazi view point, so just leave it be and move on k? its a cool skin and very well made. I wouldn't use it myself but i definiately admire the artistic value of it. People get all fussy over symbols man.

Its a pretty nice skin. I agree the trench coats needs to be longer.

With regards to the non-skin related remarks... Remember this quote "History is written by those who hang heroes".

I can't find much name calling against the crusaders for their ethnic cleansing or the US for all the civilian killed in wars. Just because you have been "white-washed" doesn't mean you're any cleaner than the nazis.

"People are still alive with memories of WW2, that's one reason why the Nazi's are seen as so much worse than anything else."

I'm sure there are people in vietnam still alive, who remember what the Americans did.

"I mean, Mongols, in their world invasion, killed over 40 million people"

Wow. That just makes the nazis did seem like child play in comparison and they don't even have a black name globally.

31st, you're a germanophile! :O.
J/k.

Schultz, the point i was getting at is its a symbol. Get over it. That symbol happened to be chosen as the image used by the National Socialist German Workers Party, they took power, and there leader happened to have a fucked up hatred for all things Jewish. The symbol in its own right means so many other things than death and murder, originally, quite the opposite.

I agree with Gren, and it makes you think. Very likely there are Vietnamese that view the Americans in the same way people view the Nazis, in the same way, can't imagine how people viewed the Romans, the Mongolians, the Spanish (Cortez), the British etc. etc. You get Empires only one way...
Difference, we remember the Nazis and Vietnam, and we were on the "good" side in Vietnam.

there is no good side,

Hence the speech marks...

You guys should seriously rethink your attitudes. Calling what the Nazis did childs play? Are you fucking crazy? Holocaust and WW2 were absurdities on a scale which have never happened before and after. Dont try to compare that to the fucking mongols. Even if there is only a slight similarity, or if there are other genocides beside that, how can you with that almost approve the swastika and everyhing it stands for?

And Waffen, this has nothing to do with censorship. You can use that skin if you want to. I would not even have said anything in this thread, but the screenshots and its focus on just showing nice angles of the swastika just seemed pervert too me and I had to express my disgust.

Unfortunately, no. The holocaust and WW2 were not on scales which have never happened before. Just take a look at things like the crusades, the mongol invasions, stuff like that. Consider as well that the population was a lot smaller back then as compared to even the early 20th century and you'll realise that what the nazi's have done could have been just child's play.

There has always been a long history of racism, of genocide all the way from the earliest human cultures, to things more modern such as the Boer War (go read about what the british did), colonialism, etc etc etc. Just because you label someone else as a "sub-human" and "inferior" does not make them any less human.


I don't most of the people here approve the swastika and everything it stands for.


Drawing a relation between these and modern media... I think modern advertisement revolves a lot around the concept of "sex sells" and depending on which standards you follow, it can be either quite accepted or outrageous. If you think the swastika is perverted, almost everything in modern media is the same as well.

That said, the use of the swastika in a media portraying related or fictional events is not unlawful, AFAIK. In this particular situation, I do not see any ideological views or messages of hate being intentionally coupled with the use of the svastika other than what we can draw or produce from it by association and prior knowledge.

Doing some quick searches on the norwegian database of judicial jugdements and laws, I could not find any laws or sentences indicating that the use of the svastika is prohibited as a symbol used in a computer game or

This may be different from country to country and also a result of a superficial search by me.

However I believe several countries have laws against promoting racistic messages, including Norway.

Reading some of the earlier replies in the thread seems to point towards a understanding of the german wehrmacht and kriegsmarine as plain soldiers doing their duty in a war.

Although I have no knowledge of the german navy and their behaviour in WW2 related to war crimes, I have read much literature supporting the idea that the german ground forces including the common wehrmacht soldiers indeed like the SS and similar suborganizations commited war crimes like the unjust killing of civilians or executions. Whether they liked it or were forced to by officers or trapped in a situation without choices is besides the point. Wehrmacht soldiers were part of actions like this during WW2.

I can recommend works on this subject if anyone is interested.

Yeah Dragon i know what the symbol is and its ancient origin.
This is about SS carying it tho which renders the thematic agenda a little to the specific dont you think.

And yeah what smokaz said.

P.S 31st, compairing attrocities on a scale serves what purpose exactly ?

Agree to disagree shultzz, apex, 31st.
To you two it might seem that the swastika is attrocious, and you do not want to see it. However, I do not think it is fair for you to deny anyone's right to download the swastika model on the unit if they want to do it - it's a free world, with free media.
The swastika here was not portrayed in an offensive manner, nor was it pushed upon the people intending to download the model - the creator actually declared he is not officially releasing the swastika version of the model. He pointed out that the only reason it's "front and center" is because it's an achievement of his - he managed to integrate a working APP file which works online, meaning he can incorporate other symbols(such as the eagle or just rank insignia) onto his skins.
Yet again, apollo has stated the swastika is for personal use only, and sendable over e-mail if anyone WANTS it. He's not forcing it on anyone.
Please stop the off-topic'ness of who was worse - the mongols or the crusaders or the nazis or leeroy. I for one could detest the teutons(and thusly see the christian cross as a perverted sign of evil) for what the teutonic knights have done to Lithuania. Or I could see anyone posting the color red as perverted bastards insulting the people that have been under soviet occupation. But I don't, and neither should you see a swastika as an insult unless it had been posted under the words "suck on this, you freaking jew".

Even though i created this i must say that out of this entire discussion, apex is the only one-speeking sense, the rest of you are trying to make excusses for the symbol and that just doesn’t work. Once the nazi party used the swastika its fait as a hate symbol was sealed in the western world. I do agree with apex that the nazis are one of the worst groups in modern history and to compare them with other groups that have little modern significance is straying from the point.

Also APEX i did not intentionally mean to "show the swastika in a nice angle" i simply wanted to take screen shots of the units fulfilling there combat roles in a way that is visually appealing. The reason you see the swastika is becouse of its color in relation ship to the coat, no matter what angle i take the screen shot on your eye will always go there. I cannot take a pic from the other side or as it would ruin the lighting and all you would see is a black solute.

if you wish apex i will take new screen shots, but in no way do i mean to glorify the swastika or the nazis in general.

I agree.

Oh geez, it's so funny to see all those people discussing about shit and still have no idea what they're talking about. Mysthalin, in this case, is damn right and I hope that more people should realize that thinking before posting their comments, is and stays "a must".

QFT.

Indeed rahxy,
when the funny part is that noone ever said anything about not downloading and using it.

You can tattoo the fucking thing on your forehead if it makes you happy. I will still spit in your face.

lol

don´t argue with apex, resistance is futile, always.

God. Free Speech and Free media? To bad you don't pay for this section of the internet.

Closing this because it has got way out of hand