COH: Europe In Ruins

Burst bug is seriously affecting these, they do not only slaughter rifles but they INSTANTLY pin them as well. Needs to be looked at.

So do wehrmacht halftracks.

I seldom use the wehr HT's, so I wouldn't know but if this is right it needs to be fixed as well in the next "hotfix" patch.

Im fairly certain the burst bug affects the Quad and the AC as well, fix please.

Complain to relic.

Its their bug not ours, and is not fixable.

lolz,

Replay of the game I just played against him --------> http://files.filefront.com/IHT+bug+ftwrar/;13728797;/fileinfo.html

Malevolence and Smokaz vs Draken and Killer344.

Mal sux in that game btw I blame it on him, but seeing those HT's instapin rifles was very damaging to my frail psyche  :-[

so do ami halftracks (quads are even more evil)

Captain redundant ftw!

Relic did not change suppression on Quads and M2HBs.
Only the Wehr HT (both MGs, front and back) PE IHT, and Wehr Geschutzwagen MG have the 'new' suppression, which is double what it was before.

they didnt; i just wanted to say, u should think about the pop of a m3 quad.. for 10 pop u get inf killers deluxe*

And one Ostwind can counter them all...

Smoky played well, although the Pershing was embarassing. Can Smoky comment on the Pershing?
Draky played like shit, far below what he should perform.
Axis didn't deal well enough with the ATGs, thus lots of Killy-vehicles perished.

yeah.. the pershing was nearly circle strafed by a wirblewind lawl.

The pershing handles extremely bad, there's no surprise in a wirbelwind or a similarily fast vehicle being able to dodge it around buildings. In the open it would be more difficult. Like I said some time ago, the pershing handles like a shopping cart. It also struggled to deal with a 10% health Tiger, missing on the move or not penetrating. It is such a big dissapointment 99% of the time to call in a pershing.

A lot of things went wrong in that game, like malevolence failing to capture his side and maintaining a field presence and losing his calliope in spite of us beating off the storm rush when a charging stug managed to blow it up, the pershing being junk was just one of them. Malevolence is obviously too cheap to buy smoke for his callies, its only 30 munitions you scrub.

To his defence I will say that he was on a company with no advantages with me having three basic +200 ones and almost no vet on either side of the allied team while killers company was a neverending stream of vetted panzergrenadiers and tanks/vehicles. Kudos for him for gaining all that vet, but I dont think he came out of it with a net PP gain ;)

Rest assured, I am not buying any more pershings. It is all calliope and field repairs for me from now on. The calliope just makes the pershing look so bad, its sad really.

I did see a guy with a CCT for his pershing though and it seemed pretty brutal.

how can scyn get 2 vet3 pershings then? you exactly know how good the front armour of a tiger and a KT is.
its also quite disappointing when my vet1 p4 dies to a non-upgunned vet0 sherman
thats coh

Pershing without cct sucks, pershing with cct rapes.

Reinforcements just lead to too many unbalanced combos.   Needs to be removed once doctrines are fully implemented.

I admit the StuG rush probably shouldn't've killed my Calli and that was just me being fail, otherwise I did decently with exception of that damn PaK snipe. It can still fucking ninja snipe my shit from out of LOS, you devs did not fix the problem with the PaK it is just now more annoying to move than before. Seriously, do something about it.


Yar, vanilla company with a calli is not the most potent of all things, and Draken did particularly poorly that game as well as me, imo. Both of us probably should've been more up to speed, but it's been a long time since I've played Americans.

Drakey's worst performance was when 2 of my rangers managed to get around one of his StuHs on a halftrack, and he showd me his ass as I unloaded out of hte halftrack and insta-engine destroyed + mian gun destroyed the poor thing.

The funny thing is that my good games are never posted, and these shit one are always, lol.

Now every 2-3 games I'm trying to totaly rebuild my company, if I started like before quads won't fuck up my start call in. But I agree that was not good game from my side.

I tried to redo my american company as my old model.
But it failed with the new threats from pe (comp lacked light veichles and hmgs)

So i gave up and moved to brits :P

I have never noticed ac cars suppressing unless a really long prolonged fire (from the small mg mostly it seems)
Or infantry supporting.

Barely, the pak missed a lot of times...


Cmon, you had nearly 30 games played and mal about 5, and you also had some vet 2/3 rifles, and I was nice enough to not use any off map <3.


pquiemsh (or something like that sorry lol), and his mighty vet 3 pershing + cct.

Haha, who you trying to kid killer? I had two vetted rifles in my company which was a single vet 2 and a single vet 3 while you piled on a shitload of vetted tanks and panzergrens. If you wish to pursue this discussion why don't you also include the fact how weak rifle veterancy is to begin with to help my case? :)

I had a 40% hp vet 2 fallschrim squad beat a full health vet 3 rifle squad charging them in yellow cover so fast that I couldnt retreat the squad before it was fg42-sniped on the retreat. Pussy rifles?

Also to those who say draken played bad: consider that killer had berge + PIV doing nothing for most of the early game. Draken was missing 18~ pop of Killer's forces.

Eh... smokaz is right.

replay or it didnt happen

the guy who charged ur falls was a noob obviously
while units are moving, their accuracy is low--> no damage k?

I don´t even have pzgrens newb  :P.


And I should have taken a pic of the scores to show how Big it could have made my e-penis lolz.

So that means a 100% health vet 3 riflesquad should not beat a half health fallschirm?

And the noob who naively charged the rifles thinking they would win, was me.

If you charge it. It'd be like charging LMG42 Grenadiers at Commandos. Best of luck. They should've sat tight at long range, maybe have used suppressive fire if it wasn't on recharge.

I think panzerjager doesn't have the point.

Eh? I think you don't get it mate. Units in cover will always win over units moving towards them.
Falls have a high dmg output,yet are relatively weak. But they really profit from cover, as they can use ambush etc.

Vet 3 doesn't make your units godlike anymore.

Still a replay would be nice.

Edit: Nvm saw the link on the first page.

//message deleted

Rifles are mainline infantry for the armor company, if I can't even pour PPs into vet 3 rifles with bars to take on half-health axis infantry at lower vet, I will have to play my rifles like 200 Mp sucide sticky bombers like a lot of players already do. Using your infantry as meatshields and sticky bomb kamikaze fighters = not enjoyable american play. Rifles need to be strong at vet 3 and able to solve anti infantry tasks, and currently they are not.

That's why they're going to cost 185 manpower.

Meh killer. I hold my flank under constant calli barrages. If you are using mainly vechicle army its obvious that you will have high score and low casualties.

I don't see how this is not a strong bonus, it's probably the best vet 3 bonus they ever had in EIR. Maybe it's not applied properly.

considering they are AT magnets lol...cmon

and its quite easy to vet them up and keep em alive

6men
2xp per grenadier

By the way I meant panzerjger haven't understood what happened.
Smokaz said "I had a 40% hp vet 2 fallschrim squad beat a full health vet 3 rifle squad charging them in yellow cover so fast that I couldnt retreat the squad before it was fg42-sniped on the retreat. Pussy rifles?" he was the one with fsj charging rifes in yellow cover.
And panzerjager answered "If you charge it. It'd be like charging LMG42 Grenadiers at Commandos. Best of luck. They should've sat tight at long range, maybe have used suppressive fire if it wasn't on recharge." So he's assuming smokaz had fsj in cover while riflemen charged, but it was the contrary. That was the sense of my "I think he hasnt got the point"

Maybe I haven't understood how it went. But from my crappy english knowledge smokaz was the one with fsj charging. And I haven't seen the replay. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Vet 1/2 (the circular triangle thing) FSJ are sitting at 40% health with 4 squad members in a small brush type of yellow cover, not camoed. My vet 3 BAR rifles come around the corner of a house, at full health with vet 3. They charge from medium range and before my eyes the squad MELTS and dissapears with FSJ not losing a single man.

i think thats how falls work when they are not moving, standing in cover ready to shoot..

vet=fail
no vet=win

fallschirm vet needs to be looked at if they can beat a full health vet 3 rifle squad with 40% health consistently before vet 3, at equal vet the fallschrims should beat rifles because they are more expensive

if they weren't camo 40% healt fsj vs closerange vet3 rifles should have ripped em apart, maybe just with 1 man standing but rifles should have won that engagement. riflemen are damn useless, only things they're good at is suppressing with bars (80 munitions) and killing unupgraded volks. that's the whole point about the boredom of us.

If they are in cover, they get ambush bonuses, you are charging so penalties to your accuracy, FJ are using a weapon made to shred things at close range. Why would you charge and not just use SF at long range and close in once they are pinned. Not to mention the FJ also get cover bonuses....so charging + enemy in cover = not hit, vs super high damage close range weapons....

Yea, you made the right choice charging in that situation....

Who was it that said, vet doesn't fix stupid?

smokaz ur wrong, falls are much more expensive.
bubs remember falls have 4 fg42, rifles have 3 bars

did they have any vet?

ofc can falls easily kill rifles charging from mid range into them being in yellow cover.
let me say it this way

dmgoutput: awesome
survivability: crappy

=ambush units

lmao ampm this is epic
vet doesnt fix stupid

Consider other aspects here, rifles are not very good at long range engagements and have always been intended to rush up to the axis infantry. They lose at range to almost any axis infantry and the bars is the least effective as an upgrade at max range. Also consider that a vet 3 riflesquad is basically a "special unit", and for a lack of better description a "PP-unit" which I have paid more for than a vet 1/2 fallschirm squad.

Also, demanding that rifles use supression fight in every fight against axis infantry to win shows strong axis bias, imo.

as ive said numerous times already, this was the situation

the solution of all problems: cover! i always try to use green cover (ok its easier to get it with grens or volks[can build it] but when docs are fully in, inf doctrine rifles will be able to build them too.

And btw, vet doesnt fix stupid, I completely agree. But keeping constantly updated on all the veterancy/nerf/buff changes is a huge task and a part of the questions this thread has started to ask.

Please AMPM/aloha, attack my opinions and not my person, the same person who has mangled both of you in all games we have played.

See, that wasn't any fun and doesn't get us anywhere. It just disturbs the atmosphere, something I know aloha feels deeply about (just look at the quote in my sig).

If you didn't know FG42s are fearsome at medium and short range. Why would you charge them? It's like intentionally trying to get yourself killed. And with 4 FG42s, even at 40% squad health, it's no wonder you took heavy casualties. 4 Paratrooper Rifles at point blank range.. I don't see anything wrong with them winning. 40% hp or not, all Squad Members were still alive. Remember, the BARs were moving, losing 50% accuracy, while the FG42s, which excel at closer ranges and are generally great all around, were still; maintaining accuracy.There's a good reason why FG42s are 140 munitions; they're very powerful.
BTW, we haven't changed vet for some time.

Riflemen vet doesn't help them survive much. People expect vet to be ultimate all-around bonus; both offensive and defensive. Riflemen vet is mostly offensive, defensive bonuses for Riflemen are low (for most units they are currently).85 recieved damage at Vet1, 0.9 recieved accuracy at Vet2, and 1.1 health at Vet3. Not all that significant. By offensive I mean killing power, by defensive I mean survivability.

If I only played with the same 2 people over and over Smokaz it would be pretty fair.

Anyway, it basically comes down to, you messed up, and you men died. Its nothing to do with vet bonuses, and everything to do with you making a mistake.

I lol'd when I saw that last IHT with fsj in it instapinning and raping everything in less than 20 seconds with its highly overbuffed armor. I am happy because at least killer344 lost his vets xD

still dies to 2 atgun shots :/ -> survivability is still looow.
u should watch a bren squad raping an IHT

I would rather give it back iht armor (down in 3-4 shots of 57mm), IHT is meant to be killed by infantry, not being a freaking mobile trench mg42 instapin gun. Same AC now with burst bug. With the whole PE army you can easily destroy a us player using houses and hedgerows to keep your vehicles away form 57mm fire. My call in can be raped by 3 acs with overdrive circle strafing the 57mm and focusing on sticky rifles.

And I am not talking about brits.

corrected for situation

charging a ambush FG42 unit in yellow cover (what was yellow cover 25% less incomming accuracy or 50%?)

do the math

people think that vet3 units become to rambo that can take on anything...but actually most never did the math how much more such a squad can fight and will fight (early retreats)

but anyways it is a nice prestige thing

its down in 2, max. 3 shot when the atgun hits frontal

IHT armour = recieve full damage from 57mm (150) and IHT hp = 300.
That's 2 shots and nowhere near 4.

Also as a side note to Aloha, rear armour hits don't deal more damage. They only deal more penetration. It could be 3 hits to the front or rear; it'd be very rare for it to take 3 hits though, as 2 57mm shots deal 300 damage, leaving very little space for a '5% bug.'

Yellow cover = 25 less incoming accuracy 25 less recieved damage.
The FG42s were supposed to utterly rape the rifles - it is good that veterancy does not make units capable of rolling anything in their path. Saying that "vet 3 should pwn vet 2 because it's higher", ignoring the fact you were charging a unit in cover, that is designed for fighting from ambush out of cover, and which's weapon excells at close range, is pretty much invalid. 40 percent HP doesn't change anything either - the rifles deserved to die horribly.

i didnt know that it recieves full damg but ok, thats even worse.

Well 2-3 shots then. Where is the difference? With burst/suppression bug it's a big bullshit, and it's suprising the balancement team hasn't done anything yet. I would suggest at least to remove the puma armor from those things. Not to mention pio flame+iht combo...

Eh? Bren + eng flamers, same effect. Or even better, get a croc.

iht armor and suppression/mg42>bren
and there is no way you can get a bren as reinforcement.

i understand that u dont know the button ability, sorry

brens> IHT

let's button those stormies sure...

1. Button is only on the Bren MMG, not bren transport.
2. Button works rather poorly on infantry, last time I checked.
3. Bren gun carrier dies considerably faster than an IHT does, the IHT insta-suppresses most enemy infantry at close range, where the flamen needs to be to start raping, bren gun just fails. Units in bren transport die horribly fast, even if the transport lives.
4. Crocodile is just a taaaad bit more expensive than an IHT+flame pios, as well as a bit less readily available(1 availability).
5. Button is easily dodgeable, and will not help a bren MMG win vs a flame IHT.

sry i mean bren tommies

The IHT is the core of a proper PE army, any nerf to it WILL dramaticaly decrease most PE companys efficancy.

in my opinion the IHT fufills a crucial role in the PE by providing the PE a highly effective but very vunrable supresion tool. please note that the PE lack this by defualt and it is one of there most blantant weekneses, this can not be used like an HMG however and is highly vanrable to all forms of AT. if removed the PE IHT will be soly for transpot and inefecinve at provide critical infentry support to unloding troops.

the IHT must be at close range to supress thus it is an exilant shock weapon that truly fits the PE fraction. in caparison to the other fractions the IHT may seem OP at the moment due to its aperant instant supresion but it is realy a critical element that realy brings out the best in PE shock tatics that allow players to effectivly stun ennnemy blobs into submision and provide fast hard hiting strikes wherever it is needed.

if it becomes a problem i would move for a price increase in manpower (not fuel die to PEs motorised necitys) or an decrease in avability.

I firmly beleave this unit needs to change in stats and that will remain my opinion for the time being. if you are mad becouse you are being killed by IHTs then just remember they can NOT be used in a frontal assualt and CAN ONLY supress your infentry IF you do not SUPPORT them.

Thing is apollo, Relic did a buff to the IHT, not the EiR team. It is not "apparently instant" suppresion - it's as instant as it gets - almost equal to the HMG42 right now. I do not think the IHT should actualy suppress faster than a quad .50cal does at equal ranges, do you? The popgun on the wehrmacht halftrack as well, - it insta-suppresses everything it comes into contact with (tank top MGs also tend to suppress very, very fast now, including the sherman .50cal), and it is more a relic-induced bug rather than a feature.
Also, the IHT is not at all 'vulnearable' - in fact, it takes quite a beating to go down. Without AT weaponry, it'll live through small arms fire, and the only manpack AT capable of defeating the IHT is the RR, due to it's good accuracy at long ranges, which the bazooka does not have, and therefore has to get in close, where the rangers get instantly suppressed, and pinned in two volleys.

The PE need buffs, but not in their vehicles - it's their highly underused infantry that need the buffs, there is already no incentive to using PE infantry, buffing the vehicles even more is pretty much a death sentence for the humble PzGren.

that is not true baine, a bren kills squads before engies get in distance to do any thing

ps: and at gun crawl supported by inf and a quad is pe=dead

PE shouldn't be played like you play wehrmacht imho, as you all do, expecially in making call ins. And those armor overbuffs incredibly decrease the amount of effort you need to play PE allowing you to simply park your IHT or AC in the enemy forces killing and suppressing abusing the burst bug (they are the most noticeable buggers besides puma) Infantry at least in green cover should be able to damage and defeat these vehicles. On the other hand death percentage when a halftrack is destroyed should go back to survivable values, allowing more members to get out alive from the vehicle.

You Need AT to kill any vehichle that is a simple fact. if you dont have AT you should die. PE reqires intense micro to avoid shreks and paits, just try PE and you will understand. the old way made PE units unviable, so any reverting back would be a huge nerf.

lear to adapt idk bring a tank with you to counter LIGHT vehichles, i have a feeling it works.

PE has a huge problem fighting those allied Schrek blobs huh? dangerous ground when your enemies use your weapons against you

he probably means bazookas and recoilles that get 2/3 of us doctrines and piats that almost never misses...im very glad by picking up piats nowadays because i can really annoy my opponent be killing inf and armor over buildings/hedges without getting hit :D

I heard PIATs never hit a moving vehicle, but that may be a blatant lie, nevermind me personaly having only gotten hit by a single PIAT shell ;).

BigDick, buy a bren gun carrier with a flamethrower engineer, then charge it at a volks. I'm pretty sure that the volks will be dieing to the flamethrower, not the bren's MG.
Seriously - stop taking things out of context, how on earth can you freaking compare a tommie squad with a bren to an IHT? SERIOUSLY!?

The problem we see with the IHT(and the simple wehr HT), if you haven't realised yet, is the fact it suppresses faster than an HMG42. My point was that the IHT is not at all "vulnearable" - it's actualy quite survivable, and packs a punch at that. I would also like to ask, how bringing a 12 popcap tank should be the only viable tool vs a 3 popcap unit that costs 35 FU 240 MP(confirmation on MP?)? I personaly have little trouble countering the IHT, but it's suppresion is way off, and it shouldn't have been buffed in the first place - buff the goddamn PzGrens, the G43, and un-revert soldier armor so they don't die in half a second as soon as anything coughs their way.

PE does not require intense micro to dodge shreks, as the allies have none. Bazookas - just stay at max range, not at all something extremely hard, and you can't really do shit about RRs, other than charge them and kill them - micro won't help you much with their good accuracy. PIATs... I seriously don't know how much micro you need to keep moving back from a squad that has soldier armor, crap health, and which's projectile can't hit a moving target :S.

I quote mystahlin, the issue is iht suppresses and its armor is ridiculous, and rifles can only suck, you always derail posts by making comparison with brits or other factions who are not the same/involved in the issue.
As the bren could never get engies inside because there is no reinf package with bren.

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why buying a brencarrier when a tommy squad with bren is the ultimative raping machine?

try AT guns man

AT guns are death of PE...you can completely PWN pe players by using AT gun Quad + inf (preferable rangers) makes 14-15 pop

only thing PE player can do against that is hoping for extremely lucky ACs (that get PWNed by quad over time) or a decent wehr mate

Well, the Bren Carrier has the speed advantage; it can also flank a tank; block it, then button it.

You mean the mgBren?

Quad actualy loses to an AC over time, due to poorer penetration values on the .50cal
You just don't get it, do you?

We were comparing an IHT with flamer pioneers to a bren with flamer engineers. I just don't know how in the world your minds work, because they added 2 and 2 together and decided we're talking about the tommie squad upgrade. How on earth is that even logical, since when does a bren tommie fullfill a role even remotely simmilar to the one the PE IHT does? Stop derailing threads with absolute bullshit and learn to read for god's sake.

Seriously look at it again
IHT + pio compared to Bren + eng
How can this even make you think that the bren is a tommie squad? Seriously? w...t...f?

pls record ur AC winning vs. a quad.

Uhh, I said an AC wins versus a quad, learn to read.

And frankly, it can't be done due to the fact noone's gonna keep their quad near an AC till it dies, and I'm not doing it with my quad either.

fixed. now record and show us how good ur AC micro is...lol

Why do you have to constantly derail threads?

I'm not going to try, as it's quite a waste of time. Furthermore, there is nothing to micro in an AC vs Quad engagement - they stand and shoot at each other.
Here's a theorethical engagement at point blank range of AC vs Quad, though :
Quad :
5 Dmg per shot, close range accuracy 0.4, Penetration vs puma 0.02
3 Second burst duration at ROF 24.
So in total, 72 shots fired, of which 29 will hit, and of which 0.580 will penetrate.
So, let's say a total of 50 percent chance to inflict 5 damage every 3 seconds, not taking into account post-fire aim times, cooldowns, obnoxiously long reload times, etc.

AC :
30-25 dmg per shot , 0.75 close range accuracy, 0.7 pen, 0.85 dmg modifier vs M3 Halftrack armor(quad uses it).
2 second burst at ROF 2.5
So, in total, 5 shots fired, of which 4 will hit the target, and of which 3 will penetrate, in total dealing at the very least 25*0.85= 21.25 dmg each. In total, 63-64 damage per burst at point blank, when I have rounded down each calculation in the halftracks favor.

So, stfu now, and stop derailing the thread with your ad hominems.

im very sorry bout that. forgive me. nvm.

Que?

I don't even have one in my company.
And i have been doing fine with a 18/5 score. (the afk and drop does not count damit)