November patch general balance thread

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[tank130]

Balancing other unit stats other than price would also work in most cases.

You have just made my point. Most cases, but not all.

Suggesting a community outcry would cause a problem is no different than a community outcry that says pool or hard-caps is a problem......

The down side of a pool system is it affects all units. A hard-cap targets the problem unit.
A hard-cap should only be implemented when there is no other viable solution.

[ItsDouggernaut]

Brit Officers - Make them useful again or make them 1 pop, 3 pop takes up far to much field prescence for fuck all effect.

+1 to this. The only reason I bring the captain is for the foo. Just not effective for their price/pop cost

[terrapinsrock]

You have just made my point. Most cases, but not all.

Suggesting a community outcry would cause a problem is no different than a community outcry that says pool or hard-caps is a problem......

The down side of a pool system is it affects all units. A hard-cap targets the problem unit.
A hard-cap should only be implemented when there is no other viable solution.

You are right to say most cases, blanketing them would be inproper. Balance isn't always easy to achieve. 

But a hard cap should never be the solution. The aim should always be to balance the unit properly before even thinking of hard capping.

All hard capping does is mask the problem, and then becomes a easy solution which would be used more frequently. At that point, what makes us different than OMG? 

[TheVolskinator]

You are right to say most cases, blanketing them would be inproper. Balance isn't always easy to achieve.  

But a hard cap should never be the solution. The aim should always be to balance the unit properly before even thinking of hard capping.

All hard capping does is mask the problem, and then becomes a easy solution which would be used more frequently. At that point, what makes us different than OMG?  

The reason that this course of action is appropriate when used regarding the Goliath, is that nothing says 'fuck you!' quite like rolling up a bomb on treads and clicking a button to instantly obliterate any unit of your choice for the bargain price of 90 MU. All the while, with a certain someone spamming an 'ALLAHU AKBAR! -explosion- ALLAHU AKBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR' sound clip into your ears over TS3.

MG in a house? Don't smoke/flank it, just roll up a Goliath!

Enemy heavy tank? No problem, call in a Goliath and nuke the f**ker!

ATG blocking your path? Na, don't try to take it out the hard way, just rush it with a Goliath--it can't escape, and only manages a Golli-killing money shot 10% of the time.

Enemy elite/vetted infantry? Pfff, don't bother with silly tactics or unit counters. Lure them into a Goliath or just bumrush them with several, and the enemy can do NOTHING except either press the T button or watch his troops evolve from Soldiers into Blood Mist.

You said it yourself, 'oh, well, it's fine, because only the Brits don't have an appropriate counter [Quads]'. Wait, so it's fine that an entire faction, a full 25% of the mod's content, has no way to effectively deal with a Goliath before it gets into butt fucking range? That's not okay, and neither is--imho--the presence of unit-wiping machines like the Trolliath, Stupid, and AVREthingdies.

[Tachibana]

Also i suggest remove cloack in cover

Tbh, probably best suggestion for goliaths so far.

[GrayWolf]

Tbh, probably best suggestion for goliaths so far.

This will make goliath useless, belive me.

[Shabtajus]

This will make goliath useless, belive me.

or it will make goliath more defensive unit instead of atacking one. My point with removing cloack is still possible to atack with goliath but it will require much more skills and inteligence to do it and i f u are good at this game you will make it work. No more nonsense with shit being hide in cover and rofl rushing ur stuff at speed u cant escape. Reomoved cloack will leave more than enough time to notice that goliath is coming and prepare for counter move

[ItsDouggernaut]

or it will make goliath more defensive unit instead of atacking one. My point with removing cloack is still possible to atack with goliath but it will require much more skills and inteligence to do it and i f u are good at this game you will make it work. No more nonsense with shit being hide in cover and rofl rushing ur stuff at speed u cant escape. Reomoved cloack will leave more than enough time to notice that goliath is coming and prepare for counter move

As a brit player I really think this could work: I played a game yesterday where three goliaths tried to take out my atg. But I saw where they cloaked so I just set up an mg facing them and when they tried charging toward said atg the fuckers got destroyed by the mg. My point is that if they can't cloak you can't just yolo in from near point blank range and assuming you give sight to you atg's appropriately then I feel the problem would be lessened (if not removed) as you can prepare for them

Sorry for wall of text.

[terrapinsrock]

The reason that this course of action is appropriate when used regarding the Goliath, is that nothing says 'fuck you!' quite like rolling up a bomb on treads and clicking a button to instantly obliterate any unit of your choice for the bargain price of 90 MU. All the while, with a certain someone spamming an 'ALLAHU AKBAR! -explosion- ALLAHU AKBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR' sound clip into your ears over TS3.

Someone is a bit salty of my targeting of vet units. But I digress.

Actually Brits do have a counter, its called the Boys AT . Just ask Aero, he has had success against the Goliaths with them.

Also I posted the suggestion about changing the armor type that it has from the bike armor to something else so it doesn't get the dodge bonuses.


 

[AlphaTIG]

at rifles for brits and quads for americans are good counters to goliaths, so both factions have a counter.

ive never seen anyone complain about goliaths before. so they should be fine, sure the spam is annoying but theres a counter to every spam (except for batshit broken op stuff but thats not the case here)

and when you remove the cloak from gliaths, why not remove every cloak on any unit, no more ambushes, less variety, less fun, yay.

[tank130]

Removing cloak from goliath is not a good idea - at all. It would become survivable. You would have to keep it far from your own units and out of range of the enemy. By the time you moved it into position it would be dead.

If you remove it's cloak, you better give it the same sight as infantry or better.

[TheVolskinator]

Then I assume the answer everyone is seeking is to simply arm all of my Tommies with Boys AT, and keep at least 3-4 Quads in every American company I have? :|

[aeroblade56]

The main problem you have with goliaths.

is that there is not really a way to handle them unless you know its coming before hand.

a goliath spam company will deal with people 95% of the time unless you know its coming.

i would say on average USA actually dont carry many quads unless you are airborne. on account that quads are just supression platforms and incredibly weak.

At rifles are in the same basket. sure  they do work against goliaths, but they are not cost effective weapons in general. do round 60 damage for a penetration(never penetrate a real tank) and button is pretty much useless on the unit you see these units very little.

[GrayWolf]

How to counter goliath spam:

1. Spread your infantry (always keep the upgraded ones in the back). It will prevent cost effectivness of the goliath
2. When you secure ground, don't leave it. You wanna keep your sight so your enemy cannot hide the goliaths. This makes you move freely on your territory.
3. Use cheap, durable tanks (like croc) to "tank" goliaths. Goliaths doesn't deal REALLY high damage (for the price) to tanks and "tanking" 2 and going to repair is much more cost effective. Even tanking one and going to rep is cost effective.
4. When you see goliath rushing, imagine it's the ancient world Aztec situation. You have 2 riflemen and 2 rangers. Just send the riflemen squad to block the goliath (aka sacrifice one squad to save 3 other). This makes goliath non cost effective.
5. Goliath is where enemies are. Goliaths have no sight, so expect goliath in places where Nazis are.

Method number 2, 4 and 5 are the most effective from my experience. You don't really need special weapon counter.

As brit use recon squads and as ami use jeeps. Jeeps can also be used to "tank" 1 goliath (and it is really cost effective).

A single goliath or 2 might be a surprise, but you should always spread your infantry to prevent suppression, arty and goliath overkills

[Shabtajus]

Well Graywolf your suggestions are theory crafting from fairytale IF... everybody here know how to counter every single unit in the game but reality shows its easier to say than make it happen. As for removing cloack i believe tank130 you are a little bit over reacting by saying it will make goliath useless. Most of the time i play with goliaths they are not cloacked. Since you are atacking constantly you take goliath with you and keeping it away from your units anyway.

If it bothers so much certain players with cloack nerf i am cool with that. Wveryone has his own play style. If you will leave cloack than at least give different armour type so units had targeting priority shoot down goliaths first instead of units next to it like it is now

[XIIcorps]

Then I assume the answer everyone is seeking is to simply arm all of my Tommies with Boys AT, and keep at least 3-4 Quads in every American company I have? :|

Still dont work, as goliaths have a rather low target priority, your inf would much rather use their boysAT on other inf while that goliath laughingly frollicks towards them.

As for Gary and his theorycrafting, we should just ignore him. Goliaths suck when you face em enmasse, that much is true but this is just a gimmick.
Increasing the price of them incrimentally first would be the best way to go, not removing cloak as this limits the offensive composition of said company.

[GrayWolf]

If you call basic strategy tips "theory crafting", then yeah, good luck.

How is not blobing and using recon units theory crafting? Whatever, just nerf everything you cannot counter guys. Good luck with that attitude. In my games I had no problem with terrapins goli spam.

And tbh, I shouldn't say that, but goli spam is only useful, because 90% of the community is blobing (Come on, if goliath is going for you, at least spread your units). That's what I had to say


And one more thing. Why don't you want to hard cap units? Any good reason beside "oh I won't be able to gimmick"? We've learned enough to know that by increasing the price you hurt not spamming ones the most. Look at tetrarch now? Is it played? No. Pool or hardcaps are the only way to stop spam/gimmicky companies without hurting non spamming users.

[Shabtajus]

Ofc its theory ctafting. You give advice how to counter a unit. Check the forums graywolf and you will find countless posts of yours and non stop complaining about this and that. So if you are such a good at giving advices how to play i dont understand why you QQ so much. Especially about allied stuff 

Anyway. Also to make goliath less retarded i think you should nerf acceleration so it could no lol charge you.

[aeroblade56]

Terror Goliath are hilarious.

you can 2 hit a pershing.

and nearly 2 hit a tiger.

it will take 1 shot to kill a m10/m18 and any other LV ingame.

1 goliath will cripple the sherman to danger level of a pak kill insta kill.

With bike armor(or so i have been told) you wont have a snowballs chance in hell of hitting it with a tank. that is why quads are effective is because they murder bikes.

And i assume i am looking at the wrong thing here, but i think the accel is 12 and the deccel is 8 with a top speed of 5.5(seems a little nuts)

But again. terror buffs the already strong unit to gigantic hilarity with the increased damage. 2 shotting a pershing?.  this also goes for avre,chuchill,and croc.

[tank130]

Gary & Shab, take your bitchfest to PM's