COH: Europe In Ruins

Should Bar suppression fire and g43 slow get medikit slow on the squad while the ability is active?

I would have no problem with this.

sounds pretty good tbh

I dont understand the question tbh ???

Use medkits = move slow

Use suppression = move slow?

Precisely.

Basically walk speed instead of normal jog speed when SF is activated.

Good idea tbh

I'll throw a +1 behind it.

damn, that's a fantastic idea! +1

+1

could also just start with nerfing SF a bit, or add fatigue to it just like with fire up:
once ability is over DPS is still lower for a while

+1

+1 !!!!!

why did no one think of this sooner?!?! +1!

subtle bump ^_^

Agreed!!!

Me likey

The community seems to be in agreement. Add to next patch. Or else we will storm the palace like so many unhappy peasants.

+1

this


makes sense

but the slower movement makes no sense since the suppressed/pinned squads wont be faster (to escape) than a suppressing squad that got some "medkit movement penalty"

Why add slow ? to either weapon.. seems like a pointless nerf that will just get squads shot and killed faster.. id say don't put slow in.

 

No no no no. Its fine already, but if its really so problematic to a lot of players just fix the bugs with bars resetting their cooldown and increase the overall cooldown time as well. For both bars and g43s

The weapon is not getting slow, its the squads movement speed while using the ability that will be lowered and to be honest, would not affect the survivability of the squad at all.

i know what you meant. why add it? what purpose would it give to add

The belief is the DPS nurf isn't enough, they want the suppressing squad to be unable to run away from other AI solutions, considering that it just possibly slowed a enemy squad, nerfing their DPS and movement speed.

make it so it's used more as a defensive weapon, which is its main purpose, rather than offensive like its' being used.

it can still be used offensively yes but you now have a chance to possibly get away from the squad firing if they are at range, rather than they chase you down and suppress.

PE can evade the penalty by using sprint compared to americans

WHAT other AI solutions dark? THERE ALL SUPPRESSED

unless you mean a tank in which case where is your atg

Never heard of mortar/HMG in green/No Blobbing AKA TACTICS.

No wonder you loose so much  :D

ill give this idea a meager +0.7

Dark you are a fucking retard

So you are beating suppression fire rifles by assaulting them with HMGS and Mortars?

None of those things are affected by rifles moving slowly.  Plus i actually try to help new people as if i dont no games get fucking played in this mod. Either that or you get your stack team, and i get stuck with people like johnny austin, then have to hear bout your "1337" skills. (btw as it is, good luck hitting a suppression fire rifle squad with a mortar before he is standing ontop of your squad pissing on thier head going trololololololol)

If a rifle is moving slowly how is he NOT effected by mortars and HMGs?

And I never said i was l33t, I play with noobs almost as much as you do. But then they dont show signs of improvement I tend to not want to play with them.

Hell I just played a game with 2 new players on my team lol.

Okay why would we want to brand it a defensive weapon. If we wanted to do something like that,why not give rifles lmgs or brens and just not have them move full stop. US have 2 non doctrinal infantry. Engies and rifles. They can‘t buy stg44s or mp40s for rifles.  Rifles are meant to be versatile. They play offence and defence because no one else will.
Excluding doctrinal units. Rifles still shouldn't have to rely on rangers and AB to do all the advances. I don't think people have thought and discussed this enough to make it a commuinity decision.
The bar has been designed to allow rifles to move freely and it should remain this way.


Typed from my phone.

You say that, but rifles are already better than say volks in straight up combat, and as far as my memory goes a bar squad of rifles beat a gren squad (Most of the time they wont have the lmg's) in close combat, but I might be remembering wrong...

Point is, suppression fire is not something you do while charging at your enemy, one squad suppresses the enemy while the other moves... sort of what the German LMG's should do (one squad for suppression, the other for flanking)...

From a tactically standpoint I really like it, the suppression bar squad would, well, suppress while another squad would move in for the kill, I like it more than 2 squads bumrushing the enemy while suppressing... I wish squads took more damage out in the open :/

Relic design is not the always best design, and especially not for EIRR

Relic was retard when with a small fuel upgrade every 280 manpower squad becomes more powerful than the whole PE army.

in vcoh, fast BARs was asking for an AC rush. I would know.

BARs are fine in EiR, rifles die like flies so the upgrade just lets them do their share of DPS before there average 5 minute lifespan is over.

Except that when PE sees BARs, they LOLOLOL and proceed to win in 5 minutes.

...except for the fact that the Panzer Elite have a vehicle-based force for the most part, so your point is pretty much moot.

On topic, Darksoldier, I'd love to see you as of now counter a suppression firing BAR squad with a HMG or a mortar. Mortar wouldn't work since the squad is moving too fast, and on first sight of the HMG the BAR squad would:

A) Rush ahead, finish the HMG squad before it sets up and leaves the target squad still suppressed.


B) Fall back and leave you with a gap in your defenses since you moved the HMG.


I think Spartan's idea has a lot of merit in the EiR environment.

I simply dont see the issue here. In what situation is supression fire overpowered?

3-4 rifles charging and popping suppression. If you use SF, you move slower. It's rather lame to be overrun when you're positioned in heavy cover and your guys get suppressed in heavy cover. Slow makes it take longer for them to get there.

When my double schreck stormies (2x) were running away one squad SF'd them and killed them all with a grenade. I send in a revenge of dual LMGs only to have the second SF squad SF them from heavy cover and then killing them with nades costing me buttloads of munitions and manpower for such a low cost. Then they overran my volk army dpsing them completely. Then one recrewed a ATG and got instant finished cooldown on their Bars and that 3 man squad raped my allies KCH squad with SF.

is that a serious question?  SF is and has been OP for awhile now.  At the very least it needs to be nerfed to only targeting one squad, if not further.

Stop charging at BAR rifle squads? Support your defense with HMGs/AI vehicles, etc, if you have trouble with people assaulting you with BARs.

Dear god, hard AI counters to stop an infantry wave!! Who would have thought.

At least Axis don't have to worry too much about allied infantry AT.

I think making it only targetable on 1 squad would actually be better!

Agreed.

SF is balanced in vCoH Nightrain.
PE have 3 man squads rapin 6 man squads, and SF is almost utterly useless as all it does it makes the enemy retreat :P.

I never claimed that SF was OP in VCoH. In reality it is totally useless as it costs muns and all you do is hit retreat if such happens :p in EIRR hitting retreat is not an option on a combat ready squad that was SF'd

How would you trap any hit-n-runners? Look the entire american faction. The bar gives a timed but decent supression ability, everything else is is pretty much immune supression in green cover. 30 cals and quads can be skimmed at dodged at the edge of their weapons range.

This "4-5" bars charge me and "all pop SF" sound ludicrious. 25 pop of rifles? Well, where is your mg, your light vehicle, your whatever, and please show me the 25 pop of axis infantry with AI upgrades that end up being helpless against this.

On my defensive? Have fun walking into my grens. Yes, you come over here and do it lol. I got officers buffing me to kingdom come, FTFL on the ready etc.

On my blitz? Oh shit, did your bar blob just completely fail at countering 1 assault grenade squad? Did 400 munitions of bar just fail at focus-firing one squad or supressing it?

Terror: can't even supress me properly!

+1

SF is fine, stop playing like noobs.

One example that is complete bullshit is BARs vs FSJ with FG42. Numerous times I've ambushed from about close/medium range borderline, and if SF is popped quickly, the FSJ WILL GET SUPPRESSED before that BAR squad dies, giving enough time for anything else to come grenade it or kill it with a tank.

That is unless you pop sprint before you ambush, but it's kinda dumb to have to do that.

Only ambush BARs from green cover =)\

Also, I think you are better off at long range vs BAR rifles anyway. Possibly even with the basic FJ rifle. Those cause me more trouble because they keep recloaking.

^Exactly my premise in using vanilla fals at every opportunity.

WITH the bonuses, a cloaked fal squad will "vaporize" an american squad in 3-5 volleys, something that cant be said of FG42s. While FGs can be used to assault the enemy, I personally prefer to kite rifles and just wear them down.

BARs would actually be just fine with PE slow instead of "Suppressing Fire", which I think would go well on tanks--give it to them and they can stop rushing AT infantry. It works in BKmod, and would work even better in EiR since vehicles arent realistically lethal. Im not saying youd lolsupress an entire blob (SF would be tied to the top MG and would need to have said MG function to be able to activate), but you could hold off 1-2 shreck squads rushing at you.

 i second it. its not like. its not on a unstopable squad, there riflemen at the end of the day.

Bars should be left alone.No changes.

Like the tank idea, and it should be a slow no suppress that overrides any other abilities. That way the MG42 on top of axis tanks can be equally effective vs AB and Rangers.

 i do like that idea, it would counteract the fact all the allied elite anti tank infantry and be like. LOL FIREUP NOW I RUN FASTER THAN YER TANK.

But you can still fireup to break suppression which in my opinion should be its only use.

That's why its not suppression, its an overriding slow. That way even if they do fire up they still move slow.

You could also deter frontal charges by making the MG's... actually kill stuff once in a blue moon...
I mean, I know they do some damage, but damn, it most cases it takes longer for the PZ4's hull + top mg to kill a rifleman at half health than for the main gun to reload :/

AmPm, you seem to miss some of the wording I put into my posts.

When I said "MGs get Suppressing Fire", i meant the ability--your tank has it on it's UI, and the suppression of its turret mounted top MG is drastically increased, in addition to your hull and coaxial MGs--much the same as Tank Shock, but much more useful. This isnt PE slow for tanks, thats just silly. Im proposing giving BARs PE slow to replace Suppressing Fire, since Slow can only target one squad at a time.

If we're nerfing supressive fire for bars/g43s/fg42s, mg supression for wehr/americans and the PE se/luft mgs should be increased. Supression is supposed to be a core mechanic and a reliable force multiplier. MGs were used for a reason, bla bla bla. if the game gets any more dumbed down now I'm gonna puke.

im ok with SF from mg's, just not IWIN buttons from basic infantry.  Thats why button got nerfed...

+1

So basically, Tank Suppression Fire would only be useful for Allies, because the majority of Allied AT Infantry has FIRE UP. Good balancing there.

Haha, shrecks just got thrown out of the game with this idea  ;)
M10 supression team go!

Right, because the Axis would never want to suppress riflemen, sappers, or mandos after their smoke wears off, not to mention exhausted rangers and AB. Nice logic there.

Personally when I play blitz, infantry is the least of the worries (barring complete spam)... thing is that just backing up will save you from just about any allied at infantry, at least from my experience.

Actually they wouldn't, suppression means worse accuracy, so why suppress something that you can either drive away from or just kite and kill?

It would need to be a slow effect to be useful.

Lol, Last game I played I used a blob of 4 bar squads to supress terror 4 man kch. Pretty fun when you can pin em!

you only need 1 at a time for that...

Wehrmacht players without mgs, gotta love em.