COH: Europe In Ruins

Since EIR2 will be based heavily on the balance within COH2 I would like to get community feedback on the issue. Valid issues get discussed with the rest of the team at Relic.

Invalid issues or nonsense posts get deleted.

Larger Tanks do not currently have Larger damage.

ISU-152's hit for the same amount as a StuG. Granted the ISU-152 is primarily targeting Infantry and you don't need 320 Damage to wipe infantry but it's unusual to see an ISU-152 do so little to a tank.(same with Brummbars and IS-2's)

sdkfz 222 2cm Autocannon doesn't feel like a worthy investment(even in an EiR environment where the special role of the unit should be more prominent)


**Grenadier LMG Automatic hot pants dance party time** I know we disabled it in EiR by removing the cover seek actions. Maybe you guys can fine tune a less drastic solution to the LMG gunner going crazy when he should just be laying down a solid stream of bullets.

the auto cannon on the AC is useless. the mg feels about the same AI effectiveness.

Also imo i think grenades should do more damage. currently i have had molotovs do way better then riflenades.

There is a patch coming out soon which will address heavy tanks, its a known issue.

222 is being looked at but its low priority.

Grenade damage is likely staying the same, its intended design. Once you get better at using them they start to become very deadly too I find.

LMG is likely not changing, use cover or get in buildings. I agree its annoying, didn't use to require prone when in the open.

I assume at some point a German doctrine will be implemented that includes the use of the Tiger? Because currently it is not included.

Also, I realize the IS-2 is amazing, but I had 2 p4s after one(one on each side) and by the time they died, the IS-2 had lost approximately like 10% of its health.  Shooting it with the elefant was not much more successful, although eventually it would have killed it, I'm of the opinion that the IS-2 needs at least a slight armor reduction. 

use 2 stugs they out range the IS2 and are quite powerful

Actually use the IS-2, you'll find it certainly needs a lot more tweaks to even be useful. I'm appalled that 2 Panzer IVs were unable to kill it.

Well, I can't play for the next week, but if I'm the only one having issues, then nvm.

It's basically a Tiger, they're pretty much dead equals.

I feel the alpha version game play (other then retard tracking mortar) was the best. I loved that tanks felt like tanks, weapons actually did dmg and it was great. I know most people didn't like it because it wasn't "coh" but I loved It. Maybe introduce a "hardcore mode" where things are a little more realistic. Plenty of games have that as an option and that would be amazing.

I've Seperate the EiR2 related questions from this thread.

They can be found here
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=26937.msg467868;topicseen#new

Please keep this thread for the sole purpose of CoH2 Balance points

Except the Tiger faces off against more plentiful infantry squads and doesn't have to fear the same amount of anti-tank units.

Russian snipers autoshoot WM bunkers, also when not finished contructing, kinda annoying.

Whats the devs take on russian vs german snipers? I think a cost reduction for the german sniper should be a viable change. 300 flat manpower maybe? Or 280 even.

Devs think they are balanced. German sniper fires faster and bad better cloak, soviet sniper had better durability.

Personally I prefer the german one. I find him more versitile for most of my uses. (primarily scouting, and occasionally shooting)

My only issue is the crazy vet requirements for Him(the Russian one can gain vet through man loss, the German one has to have some pretty close brushes with death to gain vet. But from what I've gathered you guys are assessing veterancy requirements.

Mondays patch should address the vet problem. It's our largest balance patch to hit the beta to date.

I prefer the german sniper, tbh but i think they are relatively balanced.

I have been trying to think of issues, but i got to admit i find the current balance spot on, and that makes me a very happy Spartan.

After playing several games I do find it pretty balanced. Although I am not sure how I feel about the IS2 a top tier unlock not being able to penetrate a panther reliably.

T34 ram makes me want to pull my hair out. Nothing like instantly disabling your T4 panther with a tank half it's cost. grr...

use a faust

AOE weapons ignore retreat modifiers. Flamethrowers are AOE weapons.

Uhm... I just had a flamethrower kill a retreating squad and why shouldn't it?

well after the last patch i can't play anymore. Matches won't load, (kicks me back to the launcher with a 'please wait') And even the performance test won't load.

No, given the fact that almost all artillery and grenades have a decent change to OHKO squads.

i lost more units to mortar shells. that rape me as i retreat.

one could argue the same point on unkillable retreating squads.

The high amount of OHKO squad wipers of CoH2 would disagree with you.

Mkkkay.

The Elefant. I get that it was slow IRL. But it's nearly useless in its current iteration. Yeah, it two shots T34s. But I can get two StuGs that do the same thing for ~= or less cost, and fire an a rediculous rate, and get a top mounted MG. For less pop. Doctrineless.

Shock troops...dafuq, bullet resistant Stalinwood armor from War Thunder or something? Come on.

Panzergrenadiers' dual shrecks taking about 1/6th the health of a T-34 off...uhhhh, I could have sworn dual shrecks were the terror of any Allied player in vCoH if they caught you with your trousers down.

Datdatdatdat Maxim. That can't kill anything. Even with vet. And I can then cap an MG42, with 6 men in the recrew (as the Soviets) and get a death laser with no vet that ALSO gets the equivilant of AP rounds.

The Panther. Nuff' said.

The SU76 and SU 85 seem out of place and pretty useless at T4, when I can get ZiS ATGs at T2 that do the same thing with no fuel cost. All I've seen, from both ends, is the SU 76 fail miserably to penetrate a StuG or offer half decent infantry support.

The P4 IST, being armed with the short 75mm, can't hit infantry worth a damn. I see an issue with this.

Because it's most likely doctrinal and there are doctrines missing. Duh...

volski what p4ist are you talking about?  The p4 from the t3 building works really well.  I've been very happy with them...

prolly the p4 command tank

yeah the Command tank is the short 75.

Doing some broadcasting

http://www.twitch.tv/spartan_marine88/ (http://www.twitch.tv/spartan_marine88/)

Epic link man.

I'm downloading as we speak (or already downloaded, probably) and will play this when i get home...i'll probably suck but i'll have fun :)

going live people

Short barrel command tank, bad?

It fires noticeably than a regular PzIV and has more splash on it's hits while also still being able to reliably penetrate T34's, it's actually better than your regular PzIV in all things but fighting heavy Armour.

Would we (the community) be interested in different or modified Soviet infantry (and likely Germans as well) for EiR2? E.g., Penal troops being cheap throwaways and Guards being armed with premium SVT and AVT40s, more ready supplies of DP machine guns, and so on? I'm prepared to draw up several squads and according stats for the purpose.

HINT HINT there were Soviet Paratroops deployed in real life that would make stunning CQB infantry armed with submachine guns and so on--'Shock Troops' as shown in CoH2 simply never existed, only normal infantry outfits and Engineers (EF team got it right) with body armor (that was about 80% resistant to 9mm rounds at 75-100m) and SMGs. The paratroops were also highly skilled, with a single division of them being able to hurl back 2-3 German ones around an airfield in Russia (I'll dig up sources for the barrage of 'nuh uhhhh!' s that are sure to come my way).

EDIT: ^This being in contrast to the Western Allies who needed a ratio of 120:100 in Allied:German infantrymen to overcome German positions, or to beat German units in any capacity, in Italy and Normandy.

There were elite American units too...Are you trying to say that there weren't any western allied units that were on par with german troops? Or are you trying to say that overall the Russian army was more effective per man against the germans than the western allies? Both of those are wrong btw.

No, I'm saying that there were Russian units that could seriously take the fight to the Germans, even at the outset of the war when the ENTIRE RU military was considered utterly incompitent at most every level--an unfortunate stigma that still exists in the minds of some today.

Also, I can't personally think that Soviet paratroops were badass?

Soviet paratroops were very well trained just like any other elite unit out there afaik, it's just that the vast majority of their troops were a conscripted army and this overwhadowed the few more elite units within the soviet army. Is what I think he's trying to say anyway.

Your more elite soviet paratrooper was most likely better trained than your average German grenadier at any stage in the war, but your average german soldier was still better trained than your average soviet conscript by leaps and bounds.

But the worse offense in the game right now? Worse than KCH? Yeah... Penal battalion squads. See, at least KCH are 100% fictitious and fake.

Still the most important thing to note here is that the FUCKING PENAL BATTALIONS ARE ARMED WITH COMPLICATED SEMI AUTOMATIC RIFLES! I'm still pissed about this, who does relic decide to give the SVT rifles to? The average troops as an upgrade? Nope! The battle hardened guard units? NOPE! The assault oriented units? Bwahaah, NOPE!

No says relic, lets give it to the PENAL TROOPS! The people that historically could get thrown into combat without proper weapons and ammo and were generally ordered to suicide charge and hey, try to find a weapon on the battlefield because WE DONT CARE BOUT YOU SCUM!. Seriously, whoever made this unit and mandated they be the BEST RIFLE SHOTS IN THE ENTIRE RUSSIAN ARMY should honestly get fired from relic, not slapped, FIRED. Let me reiterate, the PENAL BATTALION is currently the best rifle shots at any range (dps wise) in the russian arsenal on top of being armed with the most advanced rifles in the soviet arsenal... The punishment battalion yeah right.



/Furious Rant

To put it in shorter terms, imagine that if volksgrenadiers were the tier 2 troops and came armed with all G43's. That would still make more sense than what the penal troops are in CoH2 as even volksgrenadiers were held to a way higher standard than penal troops ever were.

Would be epic if it was PQ that made that did it.

Those Penal guys. They're survivors. They stole all that good equipment.

Infact, their ingenuity warrants them an upgrade! SVT's to AVT's!

I feel the same way about ANZACS.
They overcame great odds in many battles and performed many daring raids, yet there just foot notes in WW1-2 history.

Hey. Theres only so much Great War to share, it already gets shafted by WW2 being more 'popular'. '14-'18 is Canada's war.

I guess we can give you Turkey and Southern France. Anything else you gotta talk to the Yankees about, they did terrible.

No balance stuff, but.:
Fix that horrible zoom factor. Tanks and atgs firing over like 3 coh2 screens is just a joke, even shitty DOW2 was slightly! better at that.

Lol I rekkon, this is why that camera mod cropped up for coh 1.

You would think they would have learned.

+1

Pretty sure they wont be increasing the distance you can zoom out.

From what PQ told me, increasing the distance you can zoom out would increase the minimum system requirements of the game, and as far as the money-making department is concerned, that's apparently bad mojo.

Yeah, can't say I like it either.

but dosent it use the same engine as Dow2 which is already 3 years old.
Considering new products on the pc market are obsolete nearly every month.

Yeah whats this thing made for? The fucking x-box?

So pqumsieh, I'm incredibly curious to know exactly what the people at Relic think of the Flame Halftrack. Seriously, who thought that giving it those veterancy bonuses, coupled with the damage and field-clearing capability was a smart idea? Seriously, who?

Probally because outside of skirmish you almost never saw then in coh1due to a lot of other units over shadowing them

The answer to that is not to make them overshadow other units.

All flamer units are strong. Have you seen a KV-8. They scare the fuck out of me way more then Flame halftracks. Those I can kill. A KV-8 is durable as shit.

Honestly, I like some strong units like that. The wipe everything on retreat is my only real gripe about them but even then I minimize losses by staggering my retreats.

Put in optional zoom-mod within CoH2 install files (under advanced install only), with a warning that it may impact in-game performance.

Min Sys. Req's. remain as low as before, players with computers that cost more than 200 USD today don't have to scream in unison rage at Relic being incompetent money-hoarding shits.

Win-win for all.

How would the Advanced installation work in Steam then? Will CoH2 be fully dependant on Steam or will it be aquireable without Steam?

As far as I can tell it will be completely hosted by steam whether you buy it via steam or a retailer, you'll still have to download it via steam.

You know, could just be solved by a simple command line if they wished to allow it, like -camera in the launch options for the alternate camera. But this is futile really as they're not going to do this.

Hopefully we can add the camera mod like last game without breaking matchmaking.

the camera zoom is realy bad imo.
u cant even place an atg properly cause ure not able to cover the whole cone of fire.
make it  optional plex.

I just got my new 29" 21:9 monitor (2560x1080).... the massive FOV increase has alleviated the zoom issue lols...
So yeah, if you want a decent field of view you need to get a bigger monitor.

holy shit, can you take a picture of that monster?

How many games even support that resolution? lol

Good luck trying to get any older game running with that.

If they support Eyefinity/Surround, they also support 21:9 most of the time. If that fails there is a website dedicated to ultra-wide resolutions specifically, with instructions to fix pretty much any game that doesn't support it.

 WSGF | "Wider is Better" (http://www.wsgf.org/)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf7FcIgkgDY


The one in the bottom is the Dell I got.

Questions, not regarding CoH2 balance (directed at PQ):

How does the 'Merge' ability function within the RGDs, and can it be duplicated in CoH1's engine?

Abilities such as Forward Focus change your unit's field of view to a cone with a longer sight range--can this be duplicated in CoH1's engine?

Can minimum sight ranges be implemented in either CoH2 or vCoH?

Answer is no, these were all additions to the COH2 engine. You could try to similar something but without SCAR knowledge at the very least I doubt you will be successful.

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeee I need heeeeeeeeeeeeelppppppppppppp -whine-

You'd probably be better off asking fldash, he's the SCAR guru around here.

Any info on when the worldbuilder is finally coming?

Apparently it's in the testing phases. so a few weeks to 2 months on the long end?

Wish I could get my hands on it already, Road to Carentan remake here we come. Just rename Carentan by some Russian city and make it look Russian.

 8)

Road to Stalingrad, replace hay bales with piles of conscripts.
Instand success.

Nah he could make a road to Rzhev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev)

Open fields, no buildings left, and even more dead conscripts

 EIRR 2 Map of the Year

Let's be honest here. The first map for Eir2 will be Stalingradbbeville Winter, and most played map for years to come.

Not intreasted in  map making anymore,,not espically for Eir 2, Iope u guys bring out nice maps. i hope they make coh2 modable so we can play eir 2 with more players coz eirr is kinda deserted.it not fun playin with same players all the time.

Road to Winterstan!

What about Neuville 2?

Wonder if I can sell my COH2 copy....

^This.

The game bores me. CoH1 has a metric shit ton more replay value (and that's not counting the mods).

was pretty obvious for me lol wont buy it. Only if eirr2 is promising. DOW2 boredom ftw :P

Somehow I doubt you nor pony played coh anywhere near launch.

Let's compare a freshly released game to a 6 year old fully patched, expanded game because that makes total sense and I am the volskinator.

fuck coh 2 ,its sucx , and bringing out eir 2 good luck with that ,might have to wait like 6 to 7 moths or maybe a year and maybe never if they never allow modding.and everyone will forget about eir 2 as well.

can anyone one tell me which coh mod is still thriving?

Did you know fldash has already hacked it and we are modding now?

 ::)

I wouldn't say that out loud, reverse engineering and modification is against the EULA.

Relic know, I'm pretty sure they are coorperating on this, since fldash cannot release it until they "fixed" devmode for public. There's even a relic member on the devteam rafl

I'm not saying they will do anything about it, but SEGA might.

Aslong as he's not releasing it, I don't see why they would do anything

It is posted on Relic news that he hacked it but will not be releasing it. He is also communicating with the producers via a Relic employee on our dev team.

AMPM, I know your preference is to me the negative member of the group, but there is no need for fear mongering.......,

Yea, we all know PQ works for Relic, it's not a secret.

Anyway, I would prefer to see the mod delayed rather than entangled with legal problems.

On the other hand, odds of playing more than a handful of games is not high, COH2 mechanics are bland to say the least.

Well....

The bad news:

You do nothing but bitch about how useless EiR:R is and now you are bitching about how useless CoH2 is. You are also implying that EiR2 will be useless by default.

The good news:

I have created a new website and forums for EiR:2 and no one will be forcing you to join them. Myself, and the majority of the Dev team would prefer that you not join them with your current negativity and cancerous attitude tbh.

We appreciate your personal concern for our legal entanglements, but rest assured that much more knowledgeable people then yourself are dealing with those matters.

Why new website, now i cant brag about how long i have been here (longer than SMokaz that noobface).

because the eir1 forum is like a soiled diaper

wtf man i was about to say that

also i want a new forum so i can start a new eirr2 persona. and then experience the whole rollercoaster of emotions

ampm eirr's biggest hater ?

its true

do you think elitegrenrapesanimals3410 is a good nick for new forum ?

no u

1: It's a video game, it's useless by default.  ::)

2: There are very very few people playing it, so I don't think I'm the only one that is tired of the current gameplay.

3: COH2 is not terrible, but it's not great, paying $60 for what amounts to an expansion sucks. I probably will not play it nearly enough to justify the cost unless EIR2 does something amazing that keeps the game fresh for a long period of time.

4: I'll join the forums, if only to organize things for other games in the General Discussion area. EIR went beyond a mod and turned into a general gaming community. We have other things like DOTA, Star Citizen, Payday 2, etc, that are being played or will be played amongst people with relationships originating in the EIR community.

5. If you haven't figured it out, I don't really care about being popular amongst people I will never meet, and, excepting a small few, I just don't care about. Just going to throw that out there for you. It's the internet, not reality. Some people I enjoy playing games with, others not so much.

So, as long as the forums are a place to discuss other games, or, more importantly something to browse while bored at work, I'm going to be around.

Is CoH2 really a strict rock, paper, scissor like game? Like Dawn of War 2, where if a player builds one thing you immediately build one thing to easily counter it?

Pretty much.

Atleast you care about me.

I can get you coh 2 for like 30  8)
Though yea, vCOH 2 isn't that great. I'm confident the mod will be though. That is at least if things go according to plan

Is it possible to implement the current EIRR factions into the coh 2 engine?

You could ask if it is possible to impregnate your mother. Same answer.

I do like Baine, because he's oldschool, and made a sweet Tiger vet video.

Yes, so much better than Smokaz.


Nobody likes him.

That depends on what modtools they end up giving us, though if they come through with their promises I don't see why not. Afaik its relatively easy to integrate vCOH models at least, I believe Khorney already managed to do so in the beta...

Depends on Relic/SEGA, they'd need to allow mods to use assets from a different game.

BRING IT german guise

People need to keep in mind that relic/sega may intend some similar content as dlc or expansion stuff. So we may not be able to use coh1 stuff.

Previous work can be carried over, most of the packaging has remained the same.

We cannot have a new website, Phil lives here. You are gonna make him homeless!

has anyone given Phil his beer money for this month?

Btw pq what i really like about the campaign/theatre of war missions in CoH 2 compared to old is that you dont have to build a base and then proceed to kill the enemy over and over and over again every mission, but rather have some cool missions where you only control one or two units. Was really fun.

yes i would like to play a american super soldier who slaughters thousands of cliché germans with flat hats and mp40s

i would also like a "face-of-baine" skin for them

Face of Baine?

"Fear comes later"

so i can shoot baine in the face 10.000 times

I already shot you in the face a couple of times.


If you know what i mean, sweetheart ...

not sure if proud about fact cuming on men's face or just german

No feelings involved, strictly results-oriented, i tried to blind him.

I don't think Baine is able to satisfy either sex, but hey who knows.

PS: I am a mentalist, Baine. I can read your lifestory from just a glance.

You need to get a less boring girlfriend cause the other guys are getting tired of you talking about her each time they invite you out.

 :o

How can you talk about your girlfriend all the time if she's in fact boring?  ??? ???

Duuh, Baine doesn't know she is boring. Nobody told him before now.

lol

PQ playing COH2 and announcing new maps, patches, dlcs etc.

http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment