Scouts?

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[sheffer]

Hi guys
Just idea.
We got a specific mineswiper unit, the same for all factions. may be it is reasonable to create same inf scout units? Only brit have inf scouts, but that is 5 men inf, other have bike\jeep\katten, but they too vulnerable (1 shot ATG). and all factions use for scouting units, created not for scouting (sniper, storms, crazy rush by LV etc).
I see that unit as 2 men with weak weapon (as mineswipers), may be with cloak on movement or cloak in cover, with same detection radius may be.
   

[DeutscherStahl]

We don't need to make every faction have all of the exact same support units. Honestly, the minesweepers were bad enough, this is just crazy. Recon tommies don't have nearly the speed or sight jeeps, bikes, and schwimmwagens do, and they cost a lot more. In return, they're significantly better in combat. Jeeps and co. also don't get suppressed, and AT guns aren't 100% accurate.

[lionel23]

All factions have numerous scout units Sheffer.

US: Jeep, Sniper, Minesweeper in building (you do know any unit in any building provides a massive LOS view around it right?), and to a lesser extent Elite infantry (with fire-up to pull back from running into something nasty) or using the huge swarms of regular infantry to push your line forward and observe/scout for your tanks and support weapons behind (since US can field more 'numbers' than most factions).

Wehr: Motorcycle, Minesweeper in building, Sniper, extremely tough and resilient Knights Cross, Cloaked Paks, Schwimmwagen, Cloaked Stormtroopers, Cloaked Volks/Grens (via Doctrine unlock), Cloak Stugs (via Doctrine Unlock)

PE: Vampire HT (massive LOS), Ketten, Cloaked Ketten, Armed Schwimmwagen, Scout Car, Cloaked Fallschrimjagers, Hezter, Luftwaffe (I think they still get cloak via Doctrine unlock, can't check @ work).

British - Tommy recon, Officers, Cloaked 6lber, Cloaked Piats, Cromwell Command tank WITH Commander upgrade.

Seems like plenty of scouting is available on both infantry and vehicle type platforms to me.

[DeutscherStahl]

Lionel, you grossly overexaggerate scouting units. Units in building aren't scouting, nor are immobile cloaked units. Especially not immobile cloaked units. Tough units are also not scouting units. I think you need to look up what scouting is.

Actual scouts

US Jeep Sniper
Wehr Bike Schwimmwagen Sniper
PE Kettenkrad Schwimmwagen Vampire
Brits Recon tommies

Scout Cars aren't scouts any more than Armoured Cars are. Name means nothing (as evidenced by VcOh armoured cars having no armour).

[lionel23]

I use infantry for scouting all the time for my ATGs, it doesn't have to be a jeep. Hell a King Tiger could 'scout' because it can stay up at the front for a very long time while providing LOS, and that - to me - is scouting.

You have removed other scouting units from the list in order to adjust this argument in your favor.

Wehr - Stormtroopers are MOBILE infantry squads (even though they are doctrine), Pak guns are MOBILE infantry based weapons (also doctrine specific).  That's 2/3 Wehr factions with cloaked capabilities.
British - Their officer have sight/stealth detection, and thrown into a bren carrier gives the brits the closest thing to a 'jeep'
PE - Scout car... it scouts... why would you remove that from the list? Trying to pad up your side of the story?

And units in buildings can clearly scout too.  I always throw one into a tiny shack or something if I need to mass reveal things for supporting artillery or ATGs, and to definitely see what's coming.  How many games have you played and not seen someone throw say a rifle squad or pioneer into a building on the edge of town and immediately eject them once they see an attack coming?  It's an early warning unit without having to commit your entire force to that area... hence, SCOUTING.  I don't know how many times you have to make attacks on people in these forums Deut, but you need to learn to stop attacking people and offer your point.

Also, I can't get onto Corsix @ work, but I'm very certain that a 'scout car' is not just an armored car.  And this isn't vCOH, so you can't use that argument to justify the scout car.  I believe it has much extended LOS than the armored car, just like how PE HTs have US HT or Wehr HT armor and not the PE one that is vulnerable to small arms fire.  If Mys shows up before I get home, he can pull the stats on the scout car or some one else on the team.

[sheffer]

2lionel23
i know it all, i use unupgreaded rifles for frontline scouting, for them it is a suicide mission for them in most situations.

all factions use for scouting units, created not for scouting   

My main idea - forward observer. most of your decisions are doctrine, or "another job" units. all factions (exept brits) have only one profiled scout vehicle unit, most effective scouts are scouts with cloak, so only sniper for 200 mu. Yes, doctrines open same additional possibilities, but not all doctrines.

2DeutscherStahl
if jeep\bike\katten avoid at its lucky jeep\bike\katten. i really dont like sniper in my company, but i need it for scouting, because jeeps cant do their job at middle stage of game.

[DeutscherStahl]

There's a difference between scouting with units and scouting units, if you don't understand the language well enough to understand that then that's not my problem

Scouting units are dedicated to their role, and perform it better than any other unit.

Any unit in the game is perfectly capable of scouting. You can scout with a fucking 57mm ATG if you want.

[lionel23]

Any unit in the game is perfectly capable of scouting. You can scout with a fucking 57mm ATG if you want.

Actually you could, it has more sight than a basic infantry squad!

So if we go by your narrow definition then, Snipers can't scout because they aren't 'scouting units' but 'units that can scout'.

Also you all forget that most doctrines have enhanced scouting abilities, such as Recon run (Airborne), Observation (Armor), Awareness (I think that's Tank Hunters), etc to supplement your existing recon units or 'units that can scout but aren't actually scouts'.

[DeutscherStahl]

God damn you're dense.

Everything in the game can reveal units. That is 'scouting'.

However, SCOUTING UNITS are UNITS DEDICATED TO SCOUTING that SCOUT FAR BETTER THAN EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME.

The units I listed fit that bill.

[LeoPhone]

minesweeper unit is indeed not cool.
i mean US and WEHR could get a cheap upgrade for engineers, whats fine.
brits however had to buy a 70 munition upgrade for sappers and PE has nothing.

so recon sections and PE squads could detect mines. well thats gay.
but isnt it much easier to just give sappers another upgrade for minedetection without the explosives that costs less?

and only give the minesweeper unit to PE. no mine detection on inf and.. DONE

[sheffer]

it can work with scouts i suppose scouting much more importent in EiR than in vCoH, likewise minesweeping. basic doctrine independent unit can equalize fractions in basic aspect of game, while doctrines and fraction units provide same advantage.

[lionel23]

Leo, the whole reason to not offer the upgrade to an existing unit and instead make it its own unit is for the fact that engineers/sappers cost 2 Pool, which is very expensive.  I could get two riflemen squads for that (MP is not an issue, PP cost is) and use them to 'clear mines' for me for no MU cost and still have a sufficient fighting force.  I would never take mindsweepers on a 2 Pool unit and having lost them have to buy them again with PP (running heavy infantry with doctrine units, mind you).

To my knowledge, the ability to detect mines was removed from Recon and PE Squads, and everyone gets a cheap minesweeper unit.