Extra Shrek + Extra LMG

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[vivie5]

I feel this benefit for both Terror and Defensive should give you 1 extra guy, with said weapon.

4 men squad's with these upgrades are too vulnerable to getting caught under arty or being wiped out fast by a sniper. While grens do have a fair bit of hp, I feel these upgrades are seldom used due to the fragile nature of both squads. And those who say its a risk return trade off, there's no risk being taken if people are simply not using these teir unlocks due to the fragile nature.

As it is, I don't trust a 4man vet3 gren squad with 2 lmg's because I know how easy the squad can be wiped out. I have not seen many double shrek squads either, with the exception of double shrek storms who can mitigate the weakness of small squad size with stealth.

So my suggestion is to modify the doctrine unlock to add 1 squad member and I would be comfortable with paying the price of the lmg/shrek.

Or give the option to buy a vet sergent both these squads, again to make it worth while to take this upgrade.

[lionel23]

I concur, either a more significant buff to vet sarge (something like how the airborne doctrine makes that one guy have a crazy amount of HP, especially when stacked with Easy Company and Vet 3 HP bonus) or make a 'vet sarge' add a 5th member to the squad or something when you buy a 2nd shrek or LMG make that 2nd weapon come with its own guy.

The riskes far, far outweight any reward in putting so many weapons into such a small squad currently.  And considering you have to take a T2 doctrine unlock (for shreks) or I believe its a T1 unlock for Terror's double LMG... well, it sucks to take an unlock that makes the squad more of a target.  Give me a reason to sink 220 MU (shreks) or 140 MU (double LMGs) into a single squad that has fewer men and weaker armor than their airborne or ranger counterpart, and also minus any get out of Dodge ability to run back and heal.

[Unkn0wn]

Give me a reason to sink 220 MU (shreks) or 140 MU (double LMGs) into a single squad that has fewer men and weaker armor than their airborne or ranger counterpart, and also minus any get out of Dodge ability to run back and heal.

Allows you to pack a bigger punch for your pop. This is a huge +, especially at the start of a game.

[Jazzhead]

Give me a reason to sink 220 MU (shreks) or 140 MU (double LMGs) into a single squad that has fewer men and weaker armor than their airborne or ranger counterpart, and also minus any get out of Dodge ability to run back and heal.

Allows you to pack a bigger punch for your pop. This is a huge +, especially at the start of a game.

Not when that squad drops your huge investment on the ground so quickly..

[lionel23]

It's a non-cloaking squad.  I focus everything as a US player to easily wipe the floor with such a squad that's double packing.  It's like will I face constant streams of Shrek Squads or the 2-4 double shrek storms that I can mass force off and know I'm free of AT the rest of the game.

It's too huge a risk, especially if given such a situation, say I'll use Mountain Man as an example, who may start with 3 T17s or Greyhounds to rape your double shrek squad and dominate your infantry the rest of the game while his allies can run mass infanry/armor to make up for his weakness.

[Jazzhead]

It's a non-cloaking squad.  I focus everything as a US player to easily wipe the floor with such a squad that's double packing.  It's like will I face constant streams of Shrek Squads or the 2-4 double shrek storms that I can mass force off and know I'm free of AT the rest of the game.

It's too huge a risk, especially if given such a situation, say I'll use Mountain Man as an example, who may start with 3 T17s or Greyhounds to rape your double shrek squad and dominate your infantry the rest of the game while his allies can run mass infanry/armor to make up for his weakness.

I think the non-cloaking part is the biggest thing. Ofc you would put 2x shreks on a storm squad because they have stealth and can unload on vehicles and limit the ability of the enemy to kite. When you have just plain grens, shreks only help to score lucky hits or support a pak/vehicle. Otherwise they can be kited all day and get gibbed by pretty much anything. As long as grens are such a small squad, i wouldnt want to invest too heavily in single squads

[Ununoctium]

The interesting thing behind this idea is that by adding a man it reduces the power boost per popcap  by 20% since its an lmg per 6 pop not 5.
However, this also makes it harder to drop the weapon, increasing its time on the field.

This could hover as a decent idea to have in mind for other things if they come up, but currently not needed change.

[lionel23]

6 pop is just fine for a 5 man gren with double weapons, would put it on par with allied elite units (6 pop Rangers and Airborne).  If you chose to go for the 'smaller' 5 pop squad, don't take the 5th guy.  Now you're talking about elite doctrine infantry fighting basic company infantry being supplemented by a doctrine T1/T2 unlock and not taking a huge penalty on doing that.

[Ununoctium]

I'm not sure what your second point is lionel. is it supporting this idea or against it.
or are you saying choose between the 4/5 squads?

Another thing suggested unclearly that I overlooked was what if the 5th man is special. he has more health and carries the lmg so he cant drop it. I don't like this but it was suggested so clarifying it if you missed it.

[Tymathee]

how about no? 4 man kch are already hard enough to kill and grens get 90 health, so you have 5 guys with 50 health. Grenadiers aren't Elite infantry, although they have health and weapons like elite infantry, they're kinda in between because they only have infantry armor so they're still pretty vulnerable.

Leave it as is, they're already quite powerful, you just have to use them differently now that u know the become a target once on the field.

[vivie5]

Airbrone guys have 107hp each with vet 3 and the benefit from Easy Company.

So...

[gamesguy2]

Airbrone guys have 107hp each with vet 3 and the benefit from Easy Company.

So...

Grenadiers have 124 hp each with vet 3 and fatherland defense, KCH have 138 hp each with the same.

Hell, storms with just vet 3 and no doctrine buffs have 128.5 hp each. EHP with battle hardened rises to 151 hp each.

[Jazzhead]

Airbrone guys have 107hp each with vet 3 and the benefit from Easy Company.

So...

Grenadiers have 124 hp each with vet 3 and fatherland defense, KCH have 138 hp each with the same.

Hell, storms with just vet 3 and no doctrine buffs have 128.5 hp each. EHP with battle hardened rises to 151 hp each.

All all of the nice health wasted when a lowly rifle squad hits suppression fire...
"I'm a vet3 grenadier with 206 XP and i can be beaten by a vet0 rifle squad"
"Yay I'm a flaming homosexual (aka AB) and i have fire-up to avoid any fight or get out danger, especially when the whole fucking company is nothing but AB"

I definitely would like to see Terror Assault be made into an anti-suppression ability

[smurfORnot]

especially when the whole fucking company is nothing but AB"

and how big is this company...since every inf unit is 280mp 
for airborne it's fine...but for rifles I dont see point in this,I will rather have them come a bit later and pay 90mp less....with extra hp and dmg bonuses I will consider them ,right now...nah...maybe just for looks...

[BigDick]

6 pop is just fine for a 5 man gren with double weapons, would put it on par with allied elite units (6 pop Rangers and Airborne).  If you chose to go for the 'smaller' 5 pop squad, don't take the 5th guy.  Now you're talking about elite doctrine infantry fighting basic company infantry being supplemented by a doctrine T1/T2 unlock and not taking a huge penalty on doing that.

you play axis u'll need some skill
its not like blob some rangers, hit fireup from time to time and mob everything up
and if there is a point not know what to do..build up a howitzer
deal with it