[PE] SE PIV IST

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[nugnugx]

Put a +5 range buff on a sherman, p4, panther, tiger, pershing and watch how it just makes the unit better.

anyone remember +5 range p4s? everyone had p4's, and they spammed 'em mercilessly

but their normal range is 40 and  ists range not.

people use IST because it's the only inf tank PE has ffs Tym ,  Wehr has stuh and ostwind.

[LeoPhone]

lol. and you can see how many wehr players use stuh and ostwinds...

[brn4meplz]

More AB players = More Ostwinds. It's a typical EiR trend

[nugnugx]

lol. and you can see how many wehr players use stuh and ostwinds...

l2p ?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

L2B   

[Tymathee]

but their normal range is 40 and  ists range not.

people use IST because it's the only inf tank PE has ffs Tym ,  Wehr has stuh and ostwind.

and? does thta mean it has to have an AI tank? it has plenty other AI units and vehicles.

The fact is, people are not only using them now, they're being spammed. On regds i see 3-5 a game playing against a Pe player and if they dont have SE they dont use the IST's, that shows not only how overpriced the unit is but how good the buffs make it.

When a buttoned ist can beat the buttoner + the atg, then it's pretty rape, the only tank that can do that is a tiger and at least that makes ssense.

[nugnugx]

and? does thta mean it has to have an AI tank?

does that mean brits need 95mm cromwell,  or sherman croc ?   croc rapes inf even better than ist and clears out buildings faster and with buldozer is tougher.

[NightRain]

and? does thta mean it has to have an AI tank? it has plenty other AI units and vehicles.

The fact is, people are not only using them now, they're being spammed. On regds i see 3-5 a game playing against a Pe player and if they dont have SE they dont use the IST's, that shows not only how overpriced the unit is but how good the buffs make it.

When a buttoned ist can beat the buttoner + the atg, then it's pretty rape, the only tank that can do that is a tiger and at least that makes ssense.

Perhaps you'd want to provide some replays where PE players have 3-5 of them- one player or two players. Seeing 2 ISTs from 2 different players is normal. Seeing 2 out from 1 player is extra ordinary- because you see, Panzer Elite vehicle army gets often 2 shotted with few exceptions. P4 IST is one of them and iti s the most reliable form of anti infantry vs elite infantry blobs with Tommies and zooks or against RRs. Blobbing means death vs IST staying apart from it means defeat for the IST.

[brn4meplz]

As a predominantly tank user I say, BRING IT!

[nugnugx]

Tym is forgetting that allies spam more inf and axis needs AI tanks and vehicles in comparison to allies.

[Uglysori]

you play as allies lately? atg's dont work dude, i usually have to bring firefly's or m-10's because if i bring atg's, then he either hits it with flammens, which still have soldier armor so brens and bars if u dont use suppression suck against them, or he just lobs a flame round at it and it melts the crew.

Ok i am starting to get confused by the complaint here.  From what I can gather Tym is complaining mainly about long range destruction giving +5 range to ISTs that mobile in lock down.  If we go by that then inc shot should never be an issue for you since in order to get both those buffs you need mobile platforms and long range destruction precluding the ability to get inc warheads which gives you the inc shot.  Now if indeed the enemy is using mobile lockdown ists and is melting your atgs with inc shot well guess what the poor tank only has 30 range then for both its main gun in lockdown and inc shot.  On the otherhand if it's melting you at 40 range with inc shot then it doesn't have access to mobile lockdown.  

On the button issue, the best counter has ironically always been inc shot since it would allow u to either flame out the brens or the atg before the button totally disabled you.  Which again means u don't have the +5 range buff.  Relying on just the regular cannon to kill a full strength bren squad or enough squad while you back out of range doesn't happen the majority of the time.  Either way its not killing your ATG which means you are still getting free shots on the IST which the P4 platform can ill afford.  In turn if the IST has somehow already opened up on your ATG before you buttoned  despite the range advantage you have on both button and the ATG well I am not sure what to say.  Even then unless the crew has already been weakened its unlikely that you'll kill the ATG within 2 shots frontally.  The gun shield simply blocks that much splash.  Only flanking an ATG will kill it that quickly.  Heck even if the ATG goes down and still have the IST buttoned there is still usually enough time to bring by another piece of AT or drop a FOO on it.  I've always thought the Brits had the best counter to ISTs and outlined them like 8 months ago in a post.

In turn, the speed decrease on lockdown should also mean its even more unlikely the IST can back out in time after u initiated the button or should give even more time to hit the IST with your atgs.

Costwise, ISTs are actually 10 pop Nightrain and frankly the only armor I can field short of a Panther that can take any hits whatsoever.  I mean I used to have good airborne players literally kite my entire army because of the range limitations of the IST and the fragileness of the rest of my army to handheld AT.  Tankhunters rarely use the IST because they have access to Hetzers but I have seen Luft players field ISTs simply because of their superior armor.  

[nugnugx]

Tym is rushing AI tank with infantry and wondering why do they get killed 

[Demon767]

IST and AVRE range buffs are totally different. One is an artillery type unit, the other is a constant fire unit.

That reminds me of HE pershings and Inc ISTs

Inc ISTs is like a Arty unit, but HE pershings is a constant firing unit 

[Sachaztan]

Imo brits a perfectly capable of countering these monster ISTs. Americans on the other hand...

[TheVolskinator]

Aye. Americans have:

Stickies - are you fucking high? Its an IST, lolcharge it to sticky at your own peril, dude.
ATGs - lol whatever, just inc shot melt it, spam MHT inc shots, or field 2 and trolololflank them with a couple of flammen clowncars in the mix. Blob of PGs with sprint or assault grens rush in and lolrape. Same goes for any HMGs, just pop sprint and win.
Bazookas - right, these do jack shit to ISTs. Shoot spitballs, they have more 'splash' damage .
M10 - Marder foodz. Clowncar foodz.
Sherman - you're kidding, right? Marder foodz. 50mm foodz.
Pershing - Great, I brought out a ?16 pop doctrinal tank killer to destroy....a lowly inf support tank.

The Americans get trolled against a legitimate spam of ISTs. 2-3 is fine in a game, its players that field upwards of 6 or even 8 during the entire duration of a match in pairs or trios that just unnerv ami players. Infantry and AB players especially get the short end of the stick, as Inf Coy more or less relies on ATGs (melted/rushed) or a couple of M10s for AT. TR doesnt do much as bazookas need to get close to reliably hit a target, and stickies to make sure it doesnt lolkite. AB needs RRs and ATGs to function, and the IST duos I sometimes see hard-counter the former and soft counter the latter. The only instance of succes versus a shit ton of ISTs is if you manage to nab his marder AND/or his IST hits a mine and becomes a much, much easier target for your ATGs--assuming infantry in some form or a MHT doesnt lolkill them. The moving lockdown is...ludicrous. Yes, PE lacks a dedicated medium tank like the crommie or sherman, ACs are somewhat easily shredded, but these things are like rapeface ostwinds. A fact that seems to be overlooked is that players wont pop the lockdown untill they're right on top of your shite--where lower speed doesnt matter at all, and the IST in its normal state has no issue running down infantry. The brits can counter, the amis...its a tough thing to pull off, especially with enemy temmates adding other factors into the fight.

[Malgoroth]

If you're seeing players spamming 6-8 (is 8 even possible?) ISTs then the only AT they'll have is schrecks. Bring out M10s or Shermans. I've used them a lot in my SE company and they are nowhere near uncounterable. If it bothers people that they need to bring on a tank of their own to beat a dedicated AI tank... then I don't even know what to say. Balance your army out and quit relying on endless hordes of infantry.

BTW, if you activate lockdown in the midst of an inf blob, it resets the ISTs gun so it has to start the reload cycle over again (At least... I think that's why there's such a huge delay between when you activate lockdown and when the thing actually starts to shoot) It gives you the perfect opportunity to button it or sticky it.

[TheVolskinator]

I dont horde infantry, far from. Never did I state I was doing so.

[DarkSoldierX]

Imo brits a perfectly capable of countering these monster ISTs. Americans on the other hand...

Stop reviving 1+ month old threads if you there isn't anything new to the state of balance of the unit. Its not really you sach this is the first time ive seen you do it, but other players are doing it.

Then again I'm not EiR police but just saying......

[Sachaztan]

If you're seeing players spamming 6-8 (is 8 even possible?) ISTs then the only AT they'll have is schrecks. Bring out M10s or Shermans. I've used them a lot in my SE company and they are nowhere near uncounterable. If it bothers people that they need to bring on a tank of their own to beat a dedicated AI tank... then I don't even know what to say. Balance your army out and quit relying on endless hordes of infantry.

BTW, if you activate lockdown in the midst of an inf blob, it resets the ISTs gun so it has to start the reload cycle over again (At least... I think that's why there's such a huge delay between when you activate lockdown and when the thing actually starts to shoot) It gives you the perfect opportunity to button it or sticky it.

You should see what happens when an IST player teams up with a wehr with tiger/kt and they face 2x americans