3v3 Montherme-Issues Shown [V1.3a]

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[acker]

Please do not add LOS to spawn points. As stated above, wiring someone in is a strategy that is somewhat easy to counter. Last game, in a attack/defend game, I noticed my partner's spawn go red. My partner noticed this, waited a minute, and called in a sherman. Apparently, the enemy had sandbagged and put MGs all around the spawnpoint. The result: dead/dying Mg gunners.

We should wait until we can actually call in heavy crush vehicles before we make any decisions on LOS.

And, on a unrelated note, those Stuhs in the replay were much more effective than any Croc I've ever seen. That was slightly unreal, seeing body parts fly through the air...

[Unkn0wn]

Please do not add LOS to spawn points. As stated above, wiring someone in is a strategy that is somewhat easy to counter. Last game, in a attack/defend game, I noticed my partner's spawn go red. My partner noticed this, waited a minute, and called in a sherman. Apparently, the enemy had sandbagged and put MGs all around the spawnpoint. The result: dead/dying Mg gunners.

We should wait until we can actually call in heavy crush vehicles before we make any decisions on LOS.

And, on a unrelated note, those Stuhs in the replay were much more effective than any Croc I've ever seen. That was slightly unreal, seeing body parts fly through the air...

Wiring someone in is not easy if you also place tanktraps and mines.
However I do agree it is a strategy and should be kept, if we can control it.
By that I mean that I would like to see people defend their entry points as well, it's a part of the game, yet I would not like to see every game depend upon who rushes the spawnpoints and rapes it.

[fldash]

yet I would not like to see every game depend upon who rushes the spawnpoints and rapes it.

Exactly, this is my only concern with the tactic.

[Demonic Spoon]

I played a game against a friend of mine on McGaechan's War. I was south, pushing up the middle. I saw the territory on the right start turing red...around my spawn point, and I responded. He would not have had time to wire me in even if he tried, and even if he did, I would simply break the wire down.

[DBSights]

I'm unsure about the feasibility of these, but a possible way to prevent base-raping from becoming a staple strategy is to vary the call-in locations.  Perhaps have 3 spawn points for each player. The units will approach from the closest point.  This also has a historical base. Realistically, troops would not walk down the same road each time to the same location; especially if it had wire + 5 mg's.

[Jazlizard]

Seriously this should not be a strategy, just because it currently is possible to do so, does not mean it should stay the way it is. Realistically it's lame and I don't think that the intent of this mod is to have players not be able to bring their units to the field because of some sort of wiring / tank trap scheme on a very small portion of the map, thats just silly and an abuse of the way a map is shaped and not dynamic in size, in reality you'd come in at a different spot or walk around.

Come on guys do you really want to win like this? Even if the guy is so called 'stupid' enough (which I disagree with) to let this happen, it shouldn't be allowed. This is my opinion and I respect others who feel differently, but whole heartily disagree with their sentiments. I belive the tactic is very lame and fairly easy to do with devestating effect and not to mention super unrealistic (yes I realize it's a game).

Anyways it's up for the makers to decide I suppose but if you've ever had it done to you (and I haven't only seen it done to teammates in 3v3 or larger) you know it just ruins your experience.

[Unkn0wn]

Europe in Ruins

[fldash]

I agree with Jazlizard almost to the 'T'.  I don't want EIR to be about lame tactics however feasible you may think they are.  The wiring/tank trapping of someone's entry point is lame no matter how much you want to claim it being a viable strategy.

I have no problem with you setting up an ambush just outside of it, but actually closing it off it not what's intended and is the result of map issues more so than anything else.

The point is that there isn't a viable alternative for the player at this point and so it becomes a gameplay issue, not a tactic issue.

If this becomes a norm, I'll have it look for enemy structures within a certain radius then have that player spawn at the that player's offmap point.  Immediate flank.

[Demonic Spoon]

erm...Whatever. I'd say setting up an ambush outside it would be even more devastating because instead of locking you in and giving you an opportunity to break out, it just kills you...But hey, whatever. I'll just set up an HMG and an At gun or two, and be done with it.

Come on guys do you really want to win like this? Even if the guy is so called 'stupid' enough (which I disagree with) to let this happen, it shouldn't be allowed. This is my opinion and I respect others who feel differently, but whole heartily disagree with their sentiments. I belive the tactic is very lame and fairly easy to do with devestating effect and not to mention super unrealistic (yes I realize it's a game).

I do appreciate how you can state this opinion without flaming, unlike some other people 

[fldash]

The problem is, at what range is it 'gameplay friendly' enough to setup an ambush.  There's too many potential issues here.  We had a long discussion on this before already (in our pre-alpha test) and we didn't really come up with a solution.  I suppose we keep it the way it is for now and see if it becomes a big issue. 

[Jazlizard]

I'm actually more ok with the ambush, as you have to at least commit some amount of units to make it work, with the wire/tank trap, you can pretty much do it and only leave a spotter (say a cloaked sniper) to just monitor when the oppent breaks free while still using most of your army elsewhere.

I don't know what the perfect solution is, there isn't one really as I guess different people prefer different methods of getting the win then I do.

Perhaps if there was some way to code it so you could not wire or trap a certain distance from the spawn point, make random spawn in points (within reason) or if the ultimate plan is to create custom maps (I belive this is the case?) design them with this flaw in mind and don't create choke points @ the spawn in.

Again this is assuming as designers you want to eliminate this 'strategy'.

Really though there are several different solutions to this issue, it's all about how one would like to go about fixing it w/o making a 'safe zone' on the map etc.

Don't get me wrong I am all about strategies and ambushes, I just feel that in order for this to be a fun competitive game the oppenent at least has to be able to bring his units on the field and move them at least a little bit. Again the only reason this works at all is because maps have fake 'borders.'

[Skunker]

yeah, i agree with you and fldash both.

[Stranger491]

I just played a game with sights and he put wire infront of the entry point and at the end of the game he had all his people there and  he killed all my guys coming in. I think you should put a lOS at the entry point

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Can you make areas invalid for placing tanktraps or wire or mines using the map editor?

[Unkn0wn]

Yes.

[Ucross]

I think the problem is now solved

[Jazlizard]

Sweet, is it via the method mentioned above?

[Stranger491]

thanks

[Unkn0wn]

Well obviously though that'll only work for custom maps.

But fldash can probably do some magic and make no enemy buildings able to be constructed in their spawn sectors.