balance musings

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[gamesguy1]

STG44's should cost 40 munitions and 300 manpower, roughly. G43's should be around 50. Panzer Grenadiers cost more than rifles and lose to them horribly without upgrades.

Where is a lol dream on smiley when you need it?

4 man PGs with no upgrades beat rifles with no upgrades, 4 man PGs with G43 beat rifles with bars(w/o suppressive fire).

Assault grens need to cost a bit less, but not that much less.

The reason almost all PE players are luft, is because FJ are the only viable infantry that PE possesses. Even they need to be used with a large degree of cunning and foresight to be effective for cost. I'm sick of hearing PE are OP, Wehr if any, are OP, not PE. Americans are perhaps OP, British are not.

Tank hunters is by far the best doctrine.   I've seen you play luftwaffe, you use your FSJs like theyre assault infantry and whine when you get owned.

Learn to micro ACs and rape allied infantry all day.

FYI the firefly is on par with the panther in terms of tank hunting capability, in fact I would argue it surpasses it, with that 55 range. Tigers have 40, snipe them. It costs what, 450 fuel? Panthers cost 590, tigers (all variants) around 700. Just nubs use it like a sherman at close range, I've seen people in this thread do that, so stop whining when in fact the reality is you don't know how to use it, check it up on CoH stats and perhaps then you will understand how its used.

I'd like to see you use a firefly, oh wait you never play anything but PE.  There should be a rule in this forum that says if you only play one faction exclusively you don't get to comment on balance.

Fireflies are good, but not invulnerable gods of anti-tank.  Panthers are much tougher, have nearly as much range(only 7.5 less) and can reliably engage infantry.  Try and shoot a MG out of a building with a firefly.  I can get up, go make a coffee, sit down, watch some tv, take a shower, and then come back and the MG would still be alive.   Panther will snipe a garrisoned MG pretty quickly, its accuracy is only bad against moving infantry.   With skirts panthers generally do not need to fear rangers or airborne.  I've seen fireflies die to one volley from two dual shreked grenadiers at long range on the front armor.

What currently slaughters PE, blobs. Infantry blob or tank blob, do either of them and you will guarantee success against a PE position unless they have help.

Yes I'd like to see your tank blob succeed against smokaz's jagd and tellar mines.  It'd be pretty amusing.

PE is somewhat vulnerable to a giant blob of infantry, good thing wehr has the godly MG42 isn't it?

[MannfredvonRitter]

1. I never said the firefly is a god of the tank world, but used right it can be one of the most powerful anti tank platforms in the game with a range bonus over virtually everyone.

2. The panther costs 770 manpower, more than the firefly.

3. The panther is more useful in certain conditions, but you can't charge a firefly up close if they know what they're doing. Button vehicle and sticky bombs ensure that a panther can't do so.

4. Claiming an allied(as in wehr to pe) faction has a powerful weapon, doesn't negate the weakness of another faction. Balance is never based upon what an allied faction has. They should be balanced in their own right so that in a 1v1 versus any faction they are competent.

5. You base my FJ usage off of one game I played with you, where I was even laughing hysterically whilst I ran them all at a HMG and clearly didn't care. In the second game I played with you, I used them in ambush and defensive roles. My FJ frequently get high kill totals and survive for very long periods of time.

6. Tank hunters aren't the best. You will have to search long and hard to get people to agree with that. Jagpanther is nice, but massed infantry assaults and suddenly 18 population isn't useful anymore.

[gamesguy1]

1. I never said the firefly is a god of the tank world, but used right it can be one of the most powerful anti tank platforms in the game with a range bonus over virtually everyone.

2. The panther costs 770 manpower, more than the firefly.

Panther is also much better in most situations.

3. The panther is more useful in certain conditions, but you can't charge a firefly up close if they know what they're doing. Button vehicle and sticky bombs ensure that a panther can't do so.

Certain conditions?  No.  Panther is better in almost all conditions,  firefly is a one trick pony, its only good at sniping tanks.   Yes you can.  With proper support you can charge a firefly despite button and stickies.  Just like how the firefly needs support to avoid being charged.

4. Claiming an allied(as in wehr to pe) faction has a powerful weapon, doesn't negate the weakness of another faction. Balance is never based upon what an allied faction has. They should be balanced in their own right so that in a 1v1 versus any faction they are competent.

Except this is a team game where 2v2s are the minimum.   If you buff Brits and PE to the point that they can stand on their own, they will be horribly overpowered compared to their vanilla counterparts.   Tommy blob+ actually useful support weapons?   PG blob+ super effective light vehicles and tanks?  Are you kidding me?

5. You base my FJ usage off of one game I played with you, where I was even laughing hysterically whilst I ran them all at a HMG and clearly didn't care. In the second game I played with you, I used them in ambush and defensive roles. My FJ frequently get high kill totals and survive for very long periods of time.

6. Tank hunters aren't the best. You will have to search long and hard to get people to agree with that. Jagpanther is nice, but massed infantry assaults and suddenly 18 population isn't useful anymore.

No I would't.  I'd just ask all the players that are actually good with PE I know.  All of them agree tankhunter is the best doctrine atm.

Massed infantry assault, meet MG42.

[MannfredvonRitter]

1. I never said the firefly is a god of the tank world, but used right it can be one of the most powerful anti tank platforms in the game with a range bonus over virtually everyone.

2. The panther costs 770 manpower, more than the firefly.

Panther is also much better in most situations.

3. The panther is more useful in certain conditions, but you can't charge a firefly up close if they know what they're doing. Button vehicle and sticky bombs ensure that a panther can't do so.

Certain conditions?  No.  Panther is better in almost all conditions,  firefly is a one trick pony, its only good at sniping tanks.   Yes you can.  With proper support you can charge a firefly despite button and stickies.  Just like how the firefly needs support to avoid being charged.

4. Claiming an allied(as in wehr to pe) faction has a powerful weapon, doesn't negate the weakness of another faction. Balance is never based upon what an allied faction has. They should be balanced in their own right so that in a 1v1 versus any faction they are competent.

Except this is a team game where 2v2s are the minimum.   If you buff Brits and PE to the point that they can stand on their own, they will be horribly overpowered compared to their vanilla counterparts.   Tommy blob+ actually useful support weapons?   PG blob+ super effective light vehicles and tanks?  Are you kidding me?

5. You base my FJ usage off of one game I played with you, where I was even laughing hysterically whilst I ran them all at a HMG and clearly didn't care. In the second game I played with you, I used them in ambush and defensive roles. My FJ frequently get high kill totals and survive for very long periods of time.

6. Tank hunters aren't the best. You will have to search long and hard to get people to agree with that. Jagpanther is nice, but massed infantry assaults and suddenly 18 population isn't useful anymore.

No I would't.  I'd just ask all the players that are actually good with PE I know.  All of them agree tankhunter is the best doctrine atm.

Massed infantry assault, meet MG42.

You again take everything out of context, again proving you're an American idiot and well beyond any point of arguing with. You sir are just a forum troll.

[gamesguy1]

1. I never said the firefly is a god of the tank world, but used right it can be one of the most powerful anti tank platforms in the game with a range bonus over virtually everyone.

2. The panther costs 770 manpower, more than the firefly.

Panther is also much better in most situations.

3. The panther is more useful in certain conditions, but you can't charge a firefly up close if they know what they're doing. Button vehicle and sticky bombs ensure that a panther can't do so.

Certain conditions?  No.  Panther is better in almost all conditions,  firefly is a one trick pony, its only good at sniping tanks.   Yes you can.  With proper support you can charge a firefly despite button and stickies.  Just like how the firefly needs support to avoid being charged.

4. Claiming an allied(as in wehr to pe) faction has a powerful weapon, doesn't negate the weakness of another faction. Balance is never based upon what an allied faction has. They should be balanced in their own right so that in a 1v1 versus any faction they are competent.

Except this is a team game where 2v2s are the minimum.   If you buff Brits and PE to the point that they can stand on their own, they will be horribly overpowered compared to their vanilla counterparts.   Tommy blob+ actually useful support weapons?   PG blob+ super effective light vehicles and tanks?  Are you kidding me?

5. You base my FJ usage off of one game I played with you, where I was even laughing hysterically whilst I ran them all at a HMG and clearly didn't care. In the second game I played with you, I used them in ambush and defensive roles. My FJ frequently get high kill totals and survive for very long periods of time.

6. Tank hunters aren't the best. You will have to search long and hard to get people to agree with that. Jagpanther is nice, but massed infantry assaults and suddenly 18 population isn't useful anymore.

No I would't.  I'd just ask all the players that are actually good with PE I know.  All of them agree tankhunter is the best doctrine atm.

Massed infantry assault, meet MG42.

You again take everything out of context, again proving you're an American idiot and well beyond any point of arguing with. You sir are just a forum troll.

Ya thats about what I expected from trolls like you.

[MannfredvonRitter]

1. I never said the firefly is a god of the tank world, but used right it can be one of the most powerful anti tank platforms in the game with a range bonus over virtually everyone.

2. The panther costs 770 manpower, more than the firefly.

Panther is also much better in most situations.

3. The panther is more useful in certain conditions, but you can't charge a firefly up close if they know what they're doing. Button vehicle and sticky bombs ensure that a panther can't do so.

Certain conditions?  No.  Panther is better in almost all conditions,  firefly is a one trick pony, its only good at sniping tanks.   Yes you can.  With proper support you can charge a firefly despite button and stickies.  Just like how the firefly needs support to avoid being charged.

4. Claiming an allied(as in wehr to pe) faction has a powerful weapon, doesn't negate the weakness of another faction. Balance is never based upon what an allied faction has. They should be balanced in their own right so that in a 1v1 versus any faction they are competent.

Except this is a team game where 2v2s are the minimum.   If you buff Brits and PE to the point that they can stand on their own, they will be horribly overpowered compared to their vanilla counterparts.   Tommy blob+ actually useful support weapons?   PG blob+ super effective light vehicles and tanks?  Are you kidding me?

5. You base my FJ usage off of one game I played with you, where I was even laughing hysterically whilst I ran them all at a HMG and clearly didn't care. In the second game I played with you, I used them in ambush and defensive roles. My FJ frequently get high kill totals and survive for very long periods of time.

6. Tank hunters aren't the best. You will have to search long and hard to get people to agree with that. Jagpanther is nice, but massed infantry assaults and suddenly 18 population isn't useful anymore.

No I would't.  I'd just ask all the players that are actually good with PE I know.  All of them agree tankhunter is the best doctrine atm.

Massed infantry assault, meet MG42.

You again take everything out of context, again proving you're an American idiot and well beyond any point of arguing with. You sir are just a forum troll.

Ya thats about what I expected from trolls like you.

You may actually have merit, but everyone knows you're one of the big stackers/stompers. The reason you are able to base your arguments on having a wehr ally is because you play with the same person every game. Stomp Stomp Stomp says the troll.

[gamesguy1]

You may actually have merit, but everyone knows you're one of the big stackers/stompers. The reason you are able to base your arguments on having a wehr ally is because you play with the same person every game. Stomp Stomp Stomp says the troll.

Ya when I play against smokaz/pauli/dnicee I'm stacking, thats right.

I prefer playing with people I know, I could care less who I'm against.  I hate incompetent teammates, I don't mind playing against extremely good opponents.

Learn what the word stacking means first.

[Tymathee]

there you go again ritter getting personal with things. Chill out on that.

Also, i've seen more tank hunter recently than the other 2 docs combined. It seems people have learned to use hetzers...

[MannfredvonRitter]

there you go again ritter getting personal with things. Chill out on that.

Also, i've seen more tank hunter recently than the other 2 docs combined. It seems people have learned to use hetzers...

Nah, he's a complete douschebag, I did aplogise to you Tym. But gamesguy follows even the most simple of posts around and picks at them like a needy woman. Every single intelligent discussion on this forum is quickly turned to a flamewar the second he appears on the scene to start attacking everyone and nitpicking on minor details.

[Smokaz]

I think balance posts should be shorted, and more similarily built up if civility cannot be maintained. Ventrilo is where the hate and aggression should be "vented".

Basically present the issue, your experience and take on it and propose a fix. Treat other people's suggestions as it were your own, with the same tact and approach you would deploy towards a friend.

Unless the changes are retarded in nature or the proposer is not credible. Then just ignore it and calmly post how you think the problem should be solved.

[gamesguy1]

there you go again ritter getting personal with things. Chill out on that.

Also, i've seen more tank hunter recently than the other 2 docs combined. It seems people have learned to use hetzers...

Nah, he's a complete douschebag, I did aplogise to you Tym. But gamesguy follows even the most simple of posts around and picks at them like a needy woman. Every single intelligent discussion on this forum is quickly turned to a flamewar the second he appears on the scene to start attacking everyone and nitpicking on minor details.

Ad Hominem attacks when you run out of arguments, sure sign of a troll.

[MannfredvonRitter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9teqnwiNTA&feature=related

I like this melody.