Quad pop needs increase

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[Baine]

As stated in the headline i think the Quad needs a pop increase, because as it stands right now it's way over effective for its pop.

Either reduce the availabilty or raise the pop. It should be somewhere at the 8 pop line.

I would even go as far as to say it should be the same as the Wirblewind in cost, pop and availability.
That way it would leave more munitions for infantry upgrades and yet cost a decent price in fuel.

[Scyn]

Quads, as well as all other burst-fire units are being addressed to bring them in line and fit in with the rest of the game.

[Mysthalin]

Quad pop needs to go up to 7, availability down to 2, tbh.
Price shouldn't be altered too heavily before those two changes, though. It's not exactly as powerful as a wirblewind - far from it. Fuel, as someone has said, should reflect the unit's ability to soak up damage - a quad is hardly close to a wirblewind in armor and HP.

[Smokaz]

Dont see why the quad needs a nerf. Because it rapes when its used well? A lot of units do that.

Captain obvious: It has no AT capability, so just send upgunned pumas or stugs against it (which are surprisingly good against quads) Thats only 3 pop more than a quad. Against a good quad user, shreks and paks are very vulernable.

Captain Tactical Reminder:Its not that good against infantry in cover either, so use green cover against it to drastically reduce damage and stop supression if you are forced to use shreks against it. Mines are also extremely punishing against quads, go go pios.

Its availability.. hard to say. Pumas and AC's (which fill the same role more or less) are all at 3. One of the balance devs should comment upon this difference in availability.

[Baine]

Quad pop needs to go up to 7, availability down to 2, tbh.
Price shouldn't be altered too heavily before those two changes, though. It's not exactly as powerful as a wirblewind - far from it. Fuel, as someone has said, should reflect the unit's ability to soak up damage - a quad is hardly close to a wirblewind in armor and HP.

A wirblewind will probably take as much hits from an atg as the quad from a pak - about 3. A wirblewind has more armor but is significantly slower. I know that one is a vehicle and one a light tank, but its more like a stuart to me (armor wise).

Dont see why the quad needs a nerf. Because it rapes when its used well? A lot of units do that.

I never talked about nerfing it. But a pop increase is needed.

Its not that good against infantry in cover either

What do you mean? If you mean damage wise then yes, it's not as good but hey, that's with nearly every weapon.
It still suppresses them, no matter what cover. Not to mention that it can circle the cover due to its speed

[Bubz]

As Scyn said not specifically the quad, but every burst bugged vehicle tbh is insane.

[Smokaz]

Well the reason why the quad is so much better than the AC and the puma is that it takes a lot of hits to bring it down imo compared to zooks against pumas and ACs. You can just rush the quads in there and cause mayhem as well as supression. AC is good, but it has to be babied and you cant rush it in there.

[Scyn]

Its availability.. hard to say. Pumas and AC's (which fill the same role more or less) are all at 3. One of the balance devs should comment upon this difference in availability.

Availability is the best way to handle it. As Baine said, Quads and Wirblewinds take the same amount of shots from an ATG so it's reflection on how much damage they take isn't really so much of an issue, nor is their speed. The kicker is the suppression dealt, combined with the burst-bug you see squads literally suppressed a few moments after being engaged. Wirblewinds are far more superior in this manner than Quads are, but Quads have the superior speed and maneuverability to get behind the enemy and disorient them. The Wirlewind has so much suppression that literally if you get shot by it, it's literally like taking a full burst of an HMG 42.

[Unkn0wn]

Old news

[Smokaz]

Please dont make the wirbelwind any weaker than it is currently, at least now its very good to have those 2 (2!) wirbelwinds you can have in your luft company. It can only fight infantry and sucks against units in buildings.

[Mysthalin]

Thing is, the burst bug doesn't help the quad all that much unless it's a prolongued engagement. It never kills on the first burst, and sometimes not even on the second one - even at point blank range. If you're letting a quad utilise it's burstbug, you've already been fucked by him - he's killed your pak and your shreckers, which is why the burstbug can now roam free. Unlike the puma/ostwind/wirble, for which the burstbug happens very, very often and it can be seen litelarly as a puma shoots infinitely at an advancing blob.

Just rushing in with a quad is pretty much a death sentence for it - flanking is key. Pumas should be doing it as well for extra power. Paks are just... wierd when they come up against quads. Sometimes they do so little damage on the first and second shots that you jsut lol at it, sometimes those two shots will mean certain death if a shrek shot lands on you when you're past the pak :S.

I dunno, quads need a nerf, I've stated it, there's been tell of the quad getting nerfs in the near future, I think this can be locked.

[Malevolence]

I never talked about nerfing it. But a pop increase is needed.

A pop increase is a nerf, lolz.

Old news

Hope the fix works.

Please dont make the wirbelwind any weaker than it is currently, at least now its very good to have those 2 (2!) wirbelwinds you can have in your luft company. It can only fight infantry and sucks against units in buildings.

It also beats an ATG from the front, mite bit overpowered, but other than that I agree.

Captain Tactical Reminder:Its not that good against infantry in cover either, so use green cover against it to drastically reduce damage and stop supression if you are forced to use shreks against it.

The rule of thumb: the faster the gun shoots, the worse it is against buildings. Quad shoots very, very fast and is very, very bad against buildings when compared to open ground.

Just rushing in with a quad is pretty much a death sentence for it - flanking is key.

The recent HP buff in retail means they can blitz down a road before the PaK can kill it and circle around it forever.

[Baine]

I never talked about nerfing it. But a pop increase is needed.

A pop increase is a nerf, lolz.

From my POV a nerf is something that changes stats of the units :p

[Mysthalin]

A nerf is anything that reduces a units combat effectiveness as oposed to it's cost. So a cost increase is also a nerf. Here you ask for a popcap cost increase, which is a change in the unit's stats, however .

[Unkn0wn]

Actually in terms of overall game balance a pop increase is just as much a nerf to the unit.

[Baine]

Locked because there is too many smartasses in my Thread!