Well

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[acker]

So you could get eaten by monkeys....TWICE  ?

No, I get what you mean. Still, I wouldn't bet on flipping a coin twice and getting heads both times. I guess it's just human instinct or some sort of gambling fallacy that I'm prey to.

[Malevolence]

Alright, we calced it out.

5% bug 7 times = 1 out of every 14,000 chances.

I just had an event occur that is less statistically likely than being struck by lightning at least once over a course of 80 years.

Extreme examples are required to get rid of ridiculous stats. Fix.

[acker]

Extreme examples are required to get rid of ridiculous stats. Fix.

...For all 5% cases, I hope. I disagree with Shoe's viewpoint.

[Malevolence]

At the very least on AT guns. 5% bug on tanks is harder to fix due to the critical destroyed types (which can be rerolled and thus have no effect).

[gamesguy2]

Extreme examples are required to get rid of ridiculous stats. Fix.

...For all 5% cases, I hope. I disagree with Shoe's viewpoint.

Its different for vehicles.

For ATGs, there is a 25% chance nothing happens when it gets hit at 5% hp.

For vehicles, there is only vehicle destroyed, main gun destroyed, or engine destroyed.   So even if you 5% a vehicle, it at least will have lost its main gun or its engines, rendering it much less dangerous.

A 5% ATG just sits there firing.

[acker]

At the very least on AT guns. 5% bug on tanks is harder to fix due to the critical destroyed types (which can be rerolled and thus have no effect).

For 5% cases on tanks, couldn't you simply change all critical destroyed types to "wreck" or "out of control" once the tank reaches 5%? I'm no modder, but I'm pretty sure that tank criticals depend on whether the tank is at "green", "yellow", or "red" health, and "red" health determines tank criticals at 5%->0%. So you just have to change "red" health crit values.

For vehicles, there is only vehicle destroyed, main gun destroyed, or engine destroyed.   So even if you 5% a vehicle, it at least will have lost its main gun or its engines, rendering it much less dangerous.

...Not exactly. The vehicle could stave off attacks through the 5% bug, then repair, which would make it much more dangerous than an AT gun. Or it could just as easily escape offmap, which makes it more dangerous overall, as it will ravage your tanks in the next game, with the vet it gained in the previous game. Or surrounding forces could use the time delay to take out your forces dedicated towards destruction of said vehicle, so said vehicle can't go through #1. All of these are arguably more dangerous than a 5% AT gun.

None of these scenarios are particularly likely, but I'm pretty sure that most veteran players have gone through at least one of these scenarios. I doubt that I'll have trouble killing a 5% vet0 KT in the near future, but it still happened. Killing something should mean it stays dead...

[Jazlizard]

Basically right acker, at least how I understand it. You have 3 states, Green, Yellow and Red health. Each of these have separate crit entry tables you can apply to, with most green criticals having 100% chance to do 'no critical'. You could easily design every red health hit to cause a wreck or out of control if you wanted to.

[gamesguy2]

...Not exactly. The vehicle could stave off attacks through the 5% bug, then repair, which would make it much more dangerous than an AT gun. Or it could just as easily escape offmap, which makes it more dangerous overall, as it will ravage your tanks in the next game, with the vet it gained in the previous game. Or surrounding forces could use the time delay to take out your forces dedicated towards destruction of said vehicle, so said vehicle can't go through #1. All of these are arguably more dangerous than a 5% AT gun.

None of these scenarios are particularly likely, but I'm pretty sure that most veteran players have gone through at least one of these scenarios. I doubt that I'll have trouble killing a 5% vet0 KT in the near future, but it still happened. Killing something should mean it stays dead...

Uhh because an ATG can't escape or repair?   Have you seen vet 3 ATGs?  They're monsters.   Also they get free repair if there is a triage/CCS/support scout car, unlike vehicles, which can only repair once.

You are also ignoring the fact that the 5% engine destroyed main gun destroyed tank isn't doing anything to your troops, so you can focus fire on other units and deal with it later.

The 5% ATG is still raping your tanks and your ATGs.

[Malevolence]

For 5% cases on tanks, couldn't you simply change all critical destroyed types to "wreck" or "out of control" once the tank reaches 5%? I'm no modder, but I'm pretty sure that tank criticals depend on whether the tank is at "green", "yellow", or "red" health, and "red" health determines tank criticals at 5%->0%. So you just have to change "red" health crit values.

Correct, but the problem would be that all the crits such as "damaged engine" or "main gun destroyed" we've all come to know and love would be moved to yellow health only or disappear entirely.

...Not exactly. The vehicle could stave off attacks through the 5% bug, then repair, which would make it much more dangerous than an AT gun.

Not in an immediate sense. The vehicle at the least is taking some form of damage to its offensive and/or defensive power, whether it survives the hit unexploded or not. The ATG remains an ATG unmodified.

Or it could just as easily escape offmap, which makes it more dangerous overall, as it will ravage your tanks in the next game, with the vet it gained in the previous game. Or surrounding forces could use the time delay to take out your forces dedicated towards destruction of said vehicle, so said vehicle can't go through #1. All of these are arguably more dangerous than a 5% AT gun.

For every 5% bug or critical the tank undergoes and survives, so does this AT gun. Except the AT gun is firing at you while the tank has no gun, now no engine, now is immobilized, now engine destroyed. See the difference? 5% bug or criticals on tanks will destroy parts of the tank. The ATG suffers no such ill effects.

None of these scenarios are particularly likely, but I'm pretty sure that most veteran players have gone through at least one of these scenarios. I doubt that I'll have trouble killing a 5% vet0 KT in the near future, but it still happened. Killing something should mean it stays dead...

For the last time, it DEFLECTED the shells that didn't penetrate, and two or three of the ones that did it wasn't even in 5% health yet. It had around 10% when you guys bumrushed it, which is a good two or three penetrating shots given its GS health buff.

Yeah the Pak v. 57 was lame.

But, the zombie 57 was killed shortly thereafter and had nothing to do with you losing your KT.


Sorry for you loss though.  I lost my vet 3 crokhill the other day, I know how it feels to lose a unit to over extension.  You never really know what is up there in that FOW.

But this is where you're wrong. A vet 2 pak would make all the difference in stopping shermans from running rings around my KT with overdrive, thereby making it survive. Too bad it died to a fucking 1 in 14,000 chance. I played the game fucking right and it bit me in the ass.

Less luck more skill. Needs fix.

[gamesguy2]

And people need to stop saying 5% KTs happen oh so often.  99% of these claims are false because the KT has enormous hp and it was probably at like 10% or something when it got penetrated.

Basically, you have not brought a KT to 5% hp till it either blows up, gets destroyed engines, or loses its main gun.

And deflections are not 5% bugs.

[Malevolence]

Rage more or less about KT doesn't matter anyway.

The point is 57mm and PaK has an intentional 5% bug built in, and I think it's retarded because shit like this happens, and will not be playing until it is fixed.

[AmPM]

I just watched the replay.

57mm vs Pak happens about 8 minutes prior to the KT moving back up from the spawn after repairing.

KT then decides to solo invade the town, meanwhile Gamesguy is busy getting XP for his P4's.

KT gets jumped by rifles, 57mm, 2 shermans; is at about 1/3 health.

Drives around ineffectually trying to find a way to back out, never picks a direction, basically gets shot.

Gets blocked by shermans, P4 finally arrives...

KT has no engine, is at 5% or so, continues to back up. Sherman dies, jeep dies, P4 and KT shooting at other sherman, 57mm basically left alone.

Sherman and KT die, P4 goes around continuing to shoot infantry, Mal quits.

http://www.filefront.com/14086539/KTvet3.zip Replay


Other than that, it was a really good game.

[Malevolence]

I just watched the replay.

57mm vs Pak happens about 8 minutes prior to the KT moving back up from the spawn after repairing.

KT then decides to solo invade the town, meanwhile Gamesguy is busy getting XP for his P4's.

KT gets jumped by rifles, 57mm, 2 shermans; is at about 1/3 health.

Drives around ineffectually trying to find a way to back out, never picks a direction, basically gets shot.

Gets blocked by shermans, P4 finally arrives...

KT has no engine, is at 5% or so, continues to back up. Sherman dies, jeep dies, P4 and KT shooting at other sherman, 57mm basically left alone.

Sherman and KT die, P4 goes around continuing to shoot infantry, Mal quits.

http://www.filefront.com/14086539/KTvet3.zip Replay


Other than that, it was a really good game.

Rage more or less about KT doesn't matter anyway.

The point is 57mm and PaK has an intentional 5% bug built in, and I think it's retarded because shit like this happens, and will not be playing until it is fixed.

Don't care. Off topic.

[acker]

Uhh because an ATG can't escape or repair?   Have you seen vet 3 ATGs?  They're monsters.   Also they get free repair if there is a triage/CCS/support scout car, unlike vehicles, which can only repair once.

I've seen one or two vet3 ATGs, yes. However, I've easily seen over a dozen vet3 tanks. The leaderboard seems to indicate the same pattern as well. There are far more vet3 tanks/vehicles than there are vet3 ATGs, and each tank lasts far longer than each ATG. Which means that there are even more chances for the 5% bug to matter for tanks than ATGs. The free repair is nice, of course, but most ATGs that I see end up getting attack-grounded after the crew is shot to hell. Not so with tanks.

Correct, but the problem would be that all the crits such as "damaged engine" or "main gun destroyed" we've all come to know and love would be moved to yellow health only or disappear entirely.

...That's kinda the entire point of changing the "red" crit tables. Tanks/vehicles can no longer cheat death by losing spare parts.

Not in an immediate sense. The vehicle at the least is taking some form of damage to its offensive and/or defensive power, whether it survives the hit unexploded or not. The ATG remains an ATG unmodified.

Of course it isn't in an immediate sense, but there's no point in debating in whether or not an unmolested, damaged tank with a repair kit is going to come back or not. A 5% Pershing that takes secondary damage to the engine five times over still has its gun, and can dish out damage/finish off a target before it even begins to repair. Far better than an ATG in the same predicament, I might add.

For every 5% bug or critical the tank undergoes and survives, so does this AT gun. Except the AT gun is firing at you while the tank has no gun, now no engine, now is immobilized, now engine destroyed. See the difference? 5% bug or criticals on tanks will destroy parts of the tank. The ATG suffers no such ill effects.

You seem to forget tanks can take damage to the same component multiple times, which results in no net damage. The tank could easily do exactly the same thing as your AT gun, except with better anti-inf modifiers, bulletproof armor, and, in some cases, more mobility. I don't think anyone here will argue that a medium tank is more flexible than an AT gun.

For the last time, it DEFLECTED the shells that didn't penetrate, and two or three of the ones that did it wasn't even in 5% health yet. It had around 10% when you guys bumrushed it, which is a good two or three penetrating shots given its GS health buff.

If you don't want to listen, then that's fine. My memory is pretty shaky in the best of times, and dravidian could just be lying for the heck of it. Dravidian might even be stoned, and I could be dravidian's evil twin account that works on an IP changer-thingy. OR maybe dravidian is my evil account with an IP-changer, and I possess the ability to play 2 accounts of EIR simultaneously. I doubt it.

It's not exactly as if that's the first KT that's ever benefited from the 5% bug, either. And its effects were far more devastating than, I would assume, most 5% bugs to AT guns (AT gun survives 3 shreks and an Ostwind shot? 5% bug right there. but no one's reported it). Besides, the case I laid out is an "Extreme example" that you are arguing for the abolition of. The 5% bug is gamebreaking in rare circumstances.

Less luck more skill. Needs fix.

In the end, we agree. Less luck, needs fix.

[AmPM]

As long as 5% is removed from everything else, I'm tired of vet 3 panther/tiger/etc making it off with destroyed gun and 5%.

[DasNoob]

Point has been made.

I will make sure that the %5 gets looked into by Salan or EIRRmod Mal.

[EIRRMod]

The 25% no crit is there intentionally.

It will not be changing.

I guess we're saying goodbye to Mal.