M36/M10 statistical comparison.

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[Artekas]

First of all: this is NOT a balance thread. I was simply interested in the differences between these two tanks, so I made a list of every single difference between them. Wherever the stats are the same, they are not listed. This was made for myself but I thought other people might be interested so I'm posting it.

HP: M36 has 450 hp, M10 has 400 hp.
MP: M36 costs 420 mp, M10 costs 300 mp.
Fuel: M36 costs 280 fuel, M10 costs 190 fuel.
Pop: M36 takes up 13 pop, M10 takes up 10 pop.
Sight: M36 has 46 sight range, M10 has 35 sight range.
Speed: M36 has a max speed of 6, M10 has a max speed of 6.8.
Accel: M36 has an acceleration of 1.5, M10 has an acceleration of 1.7.
Acc: M36 has a long range acc of 0.75x, M10 has a long range acc of 0.9x.
Damage: M36 does 165 damage per hit, M10 does 112.5 damage per hit.
Pen: M36 has 0.9 long pen 0.95 med pen, M10 has 0.84 long pen 0.9 med pen.
Reload: M36 takes 6 seconds to reload, M10 takes 4.2 seconds to reload.

Flakpanzer: M36 has 1x dmg, M10 has 1.25x dmg.
StuG: M36 has 1x acc 1x dmg 1x pen, M10 has 0.85x acc 1.03x dmg 0.6x pen.
PzIV: M36 has 1x dmg, M10 has 1.25x dmg.
Panther: M36 has 1.1x dmg 0.88x pen, M10 has 1.25x dmg 0.4x pen.
Tiger: M36 has 1x dmg 1.09x pen, M10 has 1.25x dmg 0.55x pen.
Hetzer: M36 has 1x dmg 1.44x pen, M10 has 0.73x dmg 1x pen.
Jagdpanther: M36 has 1.1x dmg 0.7x pen, M10 has 1x dmg 0.42x pen.

Panzershrek: 0.87x pen against M36, 2.27x pen against M10*
50mm PaK: 0.43x pen against M36, 0.83x pen against M10*
50mm Puma: 0.53x pen against M36, 1.04x pen against M10*
50mm Hotchkiss: 1x dmg 0.53x pen against M36, 0.8x dmg 1x pen against M10
75mm PzIV: 0.83x pen against M36, 1.61x pen against M10.*
75mm StuG: 1x dmg 1x pen against StuG, 1.25x dmg 2.6x pen against M10.
75mm Panther: *
75mm Marder: 1.5x dmg 0.81x pen against M36, 1x dmg 1.59x pen against M10
75mm Geschutzwagen: Same as 75mm Marder.
75mm Hetzer: Same as 75mm PzIV
88mm Tiger: 1.16x pen against M36, 2.24x pen against M10*
88mm King Tiger: *
88mm FlaK 36: Same as 88mm Tiger.
88mm Jagdpanther: *
*These guns have 1x acc against M36 and 0.93x acc against the M10.

With the updated gun there isn't really anything interesting, but it is worth noting that the M10 gun is better in some situations. If penetration is guaranteed, then the M10 will out-DPS the M36 if it has a 1.25x damage modifier against the target (PzIV, Ostwind, Wirbelwind, rear armour of heavy tanks) or if it's at long range, where the M10 has an accuracy advantage. M36 has a big advantage in fighting the StuG,  Panther, Tiger, Hetzer, and Jagdpanther head on. There was a nice advantage to the old M36 gun - it had 1.5x damage to Wehrmacht light vehicles.

On the other side of things, survivability. The M36 has 12.5% more health and significantly better armour. There are two interesting things to note here. The first is that the 50mm Hotchkiss is obviously not meant to be put against Axis armour - this gun with usually great penetration vs everything struggles with StuG armour. The other thing is that the Marder and Geschutzwagen do 1.5x damage against the M36, raising their damage from 150 to 225. If the Geschutzwagen still had the original gun from vCoH, it would raise it from 250 to 375. To my knowledge, 375 damage is the highest damage any gun in the game could do with one shot.

And lastly general stuff that doesn't fit into the gun or armour. The M36 is obviously quite a bit more expensive, and takes 3 more pop. The M10 is just slightly faster. The M36 has the amazingly awesome advantage of 46 sight range which goes well with its gun.

[TheLastArmada]

ATM i dont think the M36 or the Achilles have really been worked on, theve been around for ages but no one has really tested them untill now, and here we have found the bucket load of bugs/faults with both units.
the Jackson should hit harder then the Wolverine in all cases seeing as its using the pershing gun,
The M36 costs more on all levels compared to the wolverine, yet its not spammable and in its current form is a complete waste of space

[brn4meplz]

The M36 Jackson was implemented with all the wrong Weapon stats.

Go back and copy all the stats of the Pershing HVAP, and ignore anything to do with infantry.

That should give you a better feel for the unit.

Also it's Armour type is changing because Panzerfausts doing 2.25 dmg to the M36 while funny, is not intended.

ATM i dont think the M36 or the Achilles have really been worked on, theve been around for ages but no one has really tested them untill now, and here we have found the bucket load of bugs/faults with both units.
the Jackson should hit harder then the Wolverine in all cases seeing as its using the pershing gun,
The M36 costs more on all levels compared to the wolverine, yet its not spammable and in its current form is a complete waste of space

Both were extensively tested before being made available and all related bugs were found with them, unfortunately we've learnt nothing we didn't already know. We have fixed all the issues in the next patch, but due to the doctrine rework were unable to put it out to the community.

[Tymathee]

so it's sort of a cross between an m-10 and the m-18 with better armor

okay, so the m-36 actually kills infantry atm? nice. heh

[Unkn0wn]

M10s big brother if you will.

[Artekas]

I was under the impression that it's not going to be using Pershing HVAP until after the patch? Which is admittedly tomorrow, but still. I wouldn't say it's useless at all in its current incarnation, and not being spammable is probably a good thing. Right now it has scout-level sight range, which really compliments the 45 range gun. I love that so much.

[Mysthalin]

It's one of my favorite tanks to use, tbh...

[Artekas]

Updated original post with stats for the Pershing HVAP gun.

Updated original post again, I thought the only differences between the 90mm Pershing HVAP and 90mm M36 were target tables but in actuality they have a couple of different base stats. The 90mm Pershing HVAP does less damage and has less range.

[brn4meplz]

I should have specified the Pershing HVAP target table stats. Damage and range were staying on the M36.

[Artekas]

Herpaderp, updated original post again to account for that.

The M36 is pretty impressive, for 280 fuel you get an improved anti-tank version of the improved Pershing gun on a fast platform with decent survivability and large sight range. Shows how much the base Pershing gun sucks at anti-tank though, it requires two upgrades (base --> hvap --> m36) to become good.

[TheLastArmada]

nope just HVAP for it too become useful, still for an AT platform nothing beats the M10 due to its spamability

[Unkn0wn]

Once the better gun and armour are implemented there's no guarantee that it will stay at 280F.

[Nijo]

i like my vanial pershy baby only sucks against KT's and Tiger's

[Artekas]

Is there any particular reason why the armour type will be changed entirely, instead of simply changing panzerfaust modifiers against StuG, as there is no other situation in the game that would be affected by doing so?

[Tymathee]

Is there any particular reason why the armour type will be changed entirely, instead of simply changing panzerfaust modifiers against StuG, as there is no other situation in the game that would be affected by doing so?

probably will be changed to churchill armor just like the croc used to be stug armor with the dozer upgrade then changed to churchill. its pretty much the same.