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Author Topic: General balance & design  (Read 25049 times)
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SaintPauli Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 530


« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2011, 07:38:21 pm »

If every doctrine choice was a purchasable upgrade, you would have less units but more powerful ones than a fresh company. But the question is if that's beneficial? I don't see much point in this kind of system, people like myst prefer lots of cheap units because they are more forgiving if something unforeseen happens.
You mean Just like Wehr units generally are more powerful/expensive compared to the American units… Wink  It would just be different ways of building companies. More choices for experienced companies while new players would start with a more limited selection. Besides upgrades does not necessarily have to be buffs only. It can be things that changes the functionality of a unit – Cangeing the 88 into an arty unit.  Upgun on Puna to make it an AT unit…
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2011, 07:57:14 pm »

I think this could be solved by utility bonuses like popcap, capping time, call-in time, builidng times, you know, the axuiliary, not offensive buffs, being the top doctrine trees.

Stuff like tank reapers, triple bars, invisible assault, marksmen etc

All should be upgrades you pay for

That negates the reason to get them. You get said abilities to make your company stronger.

Preferably I would remove doctrines and make unit bonuses dependent on a branching vet tree.

But how do you balance upgrades vs offmaps? Offmaps are free.
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SaintPauli Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 530


« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2011, 08:29:15 pm »

But how do you balance upgrades vs offmaps? Offmaps are free.
You put a MU price on offmaps (or remove them preferably)
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2011, 08:50:47 pm »

Preferably I would remove doctrines and make unit bonuses dependent on a branching vet tree.
I like branching vet trees.....
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Jstek Offline
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Posts: 144


« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2011, 09:26:30 pm »

Dont you guys have stats on how many ppl play what factions/doctrines/unlocks?  Then also have stats for what was killed in the battle.  Aka, battle 393920 for player 1 had 30% from rifflemen, 10% sniper, 60% sherman and ect ect ect..

Whithout any kind of overall auditing controls, balance is going to be just guessing or you will be able to spot major imbalances.  So i would encourge this wealth of infomation be posted automatically and such for each build.  Without it, its just a shot in the dark.

Your goal should be to have roughly about every faction / doctrine choice / unlock equally used.  Why?  Well, if you don't your metagame is going to fuck up balance big time.  Let me explain.

If everyone plays axis defensive because its so bad ass and the allies all play airborne because its also equally bad ass much more so than the other doctines....  Well now when you start balancing the game, your not really balancing anything.  Your balancing the entire game based on 2 specific factions with certain doctrine choices.

The goal should be to make all doctrines be appealable.  If you don't the entire gameplay suffer.  AKA..KCH spam.. Why is it a problem!?!?  The question should be why is everyone playing only that dontrine combo / faction?
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2011, 09:29:23 pm »

I like branching vet trees.....

sort of like how PE is implemented in vcoh, except with more variations?
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies

RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
Jstek Offline
Donator
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Posts: 144


« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2011, 09:32:05 pm »

I think this could be solved by utility bonuses like popcap, capping time, call-in time, builidng times, you know, the axuiliary, not offensive buffs, being the top doctrine trees.

Stuff like tank reapers, triple bars, invisible assault, marksmen etc

All should be upgrades you pay for

This makes sense.  But also some vet tree stuff could be cool too..
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #107 on: July 19, 2011, 09:49:41 pm »

Dont you guys have stats on how many ppl play what factions/doctrines/unlocks?  Then also have stats for what was killed in the battle.  Aka, battle 393920 for player 1 had 30% from rifflemen, 10% sniper, 60% sherman and ect ect ect..
Nope, we dont.  The data itself would be useless and skewed due to player preferences rather than usable as statistical data for balance.

Quote
Whithout any kind of overall auditing controls, balance is going to be just guessing or you will be able to spot major imbalances.  So i would encourge this wealth of infomation be posted automatically and such for each build.  Without it, its just a shot in the dark.
Again, as a balance tool - Id disagree with its worth.  As a statistical tool to see what IS being used, thats about it.

Quote
Your goal should be to have roughly about every faction / doctrine choice / unlock equally used.  Why?  Well, if you don't your metagame is going to fuck up balance big time.  Let me explain.

If everyone plays axis defensive because its so bad ass and the allies all play airborne because its also equally bad ass much more so than the other doctines....  Well now when you start balancing the game, your not really balancing anything.  Your balancing the entire game based on 2 specific factions with certain doctrine choices.
Here is where I believe your example is partially flawed.  Firstly, perception of power of a doctrine can come from more than just selected doctrines or unit choices - personal observation / skill with said units, heresay, following a trend etc.
Thats not the only problem.  I personally play Airborne as US or Infantry - not because of the choices, but thats just my gameplay style - I prefer to use troops rather than vehicles, which would further skew the statistics.

Quote
The goal should be to make all doctrines be appealable.  If you don't the entire gameplay suffer.  AKA..KCH spam.. Why is it a problem!?!?  The question should be why is everyone playing only that dontrine combo / faction?
KCH spam (purely as an example) - might be more of a problem with their effectiveness vs a strong-point of an infantry company, which multiple people might be playing at the time (even if the total Infantry companies were the lowest of the 3/6 Allied factions) - again, providing a false positive.

Each doctrine indeed *should* be equally attractive as the others, and that is what we balance on - attractive in power/bonuses, yet also utilitarian buffs that can help playstyles rather than units themselves.

All in all, its more of an organic, evolving balancing than a statistical analysis - which quite honestly, we dont have the manpower nor time to invest in something we provide for free.
As the meta-game changes, different strats and balance issues change.  What was once seemingly all-powerful, is now mediocre - while the stats themselves have changed.
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #108 on: July 19, 2011, 09:51:13 pm »

sort of like how PE is implemented in vcoh, except with more variations?
Yes, with more variations, and given in the Launcher, not in-game.

There will also be one-shot cards that give a benefit/upgrade to a squad.
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