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Author Topic: Some thoughts  (Read 3898 times)
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Shabtajus Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2564


The very best player of one of the four factions.

« on: April 01, 2016, 04:16:55 am »

I have decided to share my personal opinion about current balance we have in game. Some of my thoughts i believe will be a good information for developers who don't have much time for playing games and i am not biased allied nor i am biased axis player. So more or less this information should be accurate.


Repairs:

Well i personally think there should be done some changes. Overall idea is a good one and refreshing game play but it favorites tanks too much and leaves lw at shadow. What i am saying repairs must be split for lw's and for tanks. No point spend 60muni and effort for repairing scout cars, lahts, flameHFTS and so on. For the same cost you should not repair vehicles of different price. It does not matter what you are repairing but once you do it you lose 60muni. Maybe add repair squads of repairs costing 30muni and they repaired les HP and costed 1 pop? Especially it will help axis since they have a worse lws in general.


Officer/cpt:

First of all i think captFOO and officer barage should not be available when game starts. It creates unfair situation especially now when all we play is R+ modes. I abuse them a lot so as other players do the same and it is a little bit stupid when you can instantly kill or make move back/forward support weapons to gain advantage for charging and killing whole starting call in because of this "i win" button. It's not only about killing stuff it also give unfair advantage to secure more map in first 4mins and the rest players who are waiting for turn come on the field are punished of this as well since are forced to fight estabilished defenive line.


Tanks vs atgs:

I believe some modifiers (Hicks your call about numbers) should be added so tanks could not park in front of atg/pak and kill it. Now we have multiple repairs for 60muni (100? pop?) and its more than a good trade to park in front of atg/pak whom cost almost 3 times more and get out after killing it.



LW meta game:

Why don't try and give P2 as a LW by default since allies got chaffe? Because at this moment axis has puma (upgun now is a shit) AC and nerfed version of laht and i dont see PE infHFT as a LW btw. Those lws has to compete vs stag, t17, m8, quad. Personally i don't see it's even worth to repair axis lws because they are just too bad generally.


Infantry meta game:

After doctrines were disabled you get a fair ground play but..  Axis always had more focused and overall better buffs. Doctrines created a situation where axis infantry cost more but they are superior compared to allies. Well doctrines are gone now but most of it lost once again axis. They did not just lost buffs but at the same time allies got buffs. Now with marines (lmg+nade) being as regular unit and rifles getting zoox also add to the list mandos (stens+nades), buffs brit get by lt/cpt you see there are no advantage for axis at all. It leads axis having expensive infantry and not so much you get back for paying this cost. I do believe giving proper grenades to grens/volks could soften this problem.


I will continue with tanks and support weapons later since i gtg
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I feel like if Smokaz and Shab met up it would be a 50/50 tossup to see which one of them robbed the other first.
Tries to convince people he's a good guy,says things like this. Scumbag Shab.
GORKHALI Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1472



« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 05:21:59 am »

I like the idea about repairs they r too expensive if u r running light tanks and vehicles but good for heavies maybe give 1 man repair unit with 15 mu repair with half of the repair wat u get with 30 mu.

allied light tanks r fast, the only way to defeat them is mine spam, and they r like snipers kils inf so fast.

atguns should not be able to kill inf at all, espically seen snipers killed in one shot is fuking hilarious and at the same time its painfull for the player who loses it, and atguns who get cloak from covers shouldn't decloak after everytime they fire, espically for brits ,coz they decloak faster then sniper

heavies ,
ammunition toggle button should be given to King tiger and chruchill as well,maybe make firefly same as marder shouldn't be able to fight off inf like sherman , coz its a freaking tank reaper,

panzerfaust r useless , only good at killing light vehicles or u need like 4 volks firing at the same time to do decent damage.

at the current state bren guns r better then lmgs coz they get 2 of them + captain buff  and marines with johnson lmgs r way better then gren withlmgs they rape face and axis grenades do shit damage as ally grenades will fuck up everything.

allies having fire up and smoke like ninjas with out doctorine as stormies has to buy mp44 to get cloak is kinda unbalanced as they r only 4 men and all allies inf r 5 men strong and rangers get revive kit.

Ik am not good at pointing things out so try to be patiënte with my writing.







 


« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 11:57:28 am by GORKHALI » Logged

ItsDouggernaut Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 81



« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 03:27:40 pm »

Allies tanks are not that good, well placed atgs supported by schrecks are still a massive deterrent.

The chance of an atg killing inf is utterly tiny and it's just unbelievably unlucky if you get killed by one

Churchill's gun is mediocre and it's main focus is in being a meat shield.. feel like giving it toggle would make it redundant

If a faust pens it does do significant damage but I can see why you may want some buffs to it.

Firefly is shocking against infantry and almost every shot will miss them, not sure where you are getting this idea that they kill inf from?
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GORKHALI Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1472



« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 09:26:00 pm »

All i am saying is all medium and heavy tanks should get toggle then it would be fair for both factions except tank destroyers like m10 or hellcats.

Atm tiger is jumped by medium tanks which r fast and with toggle it is impossible to fight of inf and light tanks harassment  as heatrounds damage and accuracy is notalways reliable and those commandos can take the shot to the face and still walk away .

U might be right about ff itsDoggernaught, but the british atgun cloak needing cover which is  ok but camouflaged so fast after every shot that u can't even counter it, german pak takes a time to camo again after reveling it self .

Just my thaughts and concerns
Allied grenedes more powerful then allied
Stickies r better then faust ( maybe increase fause price to stickies and give same engine damage and peneetretion ) and u can use stickies from any place behind obstacle for eg. As faust user need to put himself in danger.
Gwagen need s to be looked at its too fragile turn too slow and it has very slow rate of fire even rapid fire takes longer time to shoot and i don't see any difference.
Anyway as tank Said hè will decide How the mod should be so we can only hope That watever hè comes up with shall be a good one.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 12:28:36 am by GORKHALI » Logged
tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 09:45:26 am »

Quote
Atm tiger is jumped by medium tanks which r fast and with toggle it is impossible to fight of inf and light tanks harassment  as heatrounds damage and accuracy is notalways reliable and those commandos can take the shot to the face and still walk away .

If you are running an unsupported Tiger and relying on a toggle to save your ass, your ass will be handed to you.

I made this point before: Stop running heavies like you used to. The unit has been redesigned. You have the versatility of using the unit for AI or AT, but don't expect it to do that in the heat of fast battle toggling back and fourth.

Think of it this way: Tiger used to be much better at AI than AT. If you need lots of AT, you pulled your Tiger back and let it sit in the backfield. Now you can pull it back, toggle and go back in as a different role. BUT - you still have to support it. We do not want units that can be multi purpose with out some kind of sacrifice to their effectiveness.
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Quote
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I'm not going to lie Tig, 9/10 times you open your mouth, I'm overwhelmed with the urge to put my foot in it.
Walkin Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 59


« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2016, 12:42:16 am »

I wanted to post a thread like this when I got some time next week, so thank you Shab for talking about it. It can be tough to break the ice on a conversation like this, so it's great that you bring it up. I'll share my opinion on the stuff you mentioned.

Repairs:
I feel like the switch from vehicle-based self-repair (Repair Kits) to a more limited approach (Repair Engineers) was an excellent direction for the mod to take; not because I think Repair Engineers are a particularly well implemented, but simply because it requires a little more involvement on the player's behalf, and not every player decides that they have to invest resources into repairs anymore. That is a good game mechanic: one that some players see as an opportune investment, while others decide that they can forego it and still run an viable company.

I feel like vehicle repairs can actually be a very interesting and meaningful game mechanic, but that methods of repairing vehicles in this mod's past have usually not worked out very well, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Officers:
Officers need a complete rethink. The aura buffs they provide have never been particularly fun or interesting to play either with or against, I find. Heck, I think that officers and sergeants in Dawn of War are more interesting that what's currently implemented in EiR. There are so many stats attributed to each unit in the game that can be tinkered with in interesting ways (for example, I think that Scatter Angle is a woefully underappreciated and underutilized weapon stat), so I'm sad to see officers that have very boring modifiers like +X% damage, or -X% received accuracy (though I find this to be true of many unit abilities, not just officer aura buffs).

Their off map barrages are patently broken and unfun, but that's been true of just about all off map barrages throughout EiR's existence.

Tanks vs. ATGs:
Tanks vs atgs:
I believe some modifiers (Hicks your call about numbers) should be added so tanks could not park in front of atg/pak and kill it. Now we have multiple repairs for 60muni (100? pop?) and its more than a good trade to park in front of atg/pak whom cost almost 3 times more and get out after killing it.
The issue here isn't that certain AT guns or vehicles need special modifiers on them, it's that support squad sizes are woefully inadequate. Three-man support teams is a vCoH design decision that simply does not work in EiR. While CoH2 is by no means a masterpiece of game design, I think one of the greatest lessons we can learn from it is that larger squad sizes (but more equal individual soldiers) makes for more varied and interesting gameplay. Four man engineering squads (that can actually contribute in a meaningful capacity, unlike vCoH's pathetic two- and three-man engineering squads with gimped weapons), six-man weapon teams (that aren't immediately invalidated by a single sniper or grenade), and a multi-dimensional cast of units (for example, the 76mm ZiS field gun's ability to fire a middling HE barrage) all make for a much more involved experience, relative to vCoH.

LW meta game:

Infantry meta game:
I like the changes that have been made to heavy vehicles recently. The removal of Repair Kits has had a positive impact on the game, and the sight/speed reductions has made properly utilizing armor a more involved process, but not at all a hassle. It's great to see the community and dev team come together to solve a problem, and I hope that we've learned our lesson here: that relatively small, appropriately applied changes (in this case, a 10% reduction in vehicle speed, and 7% reduction in vision range) can have a hugely beneficial impact on gameplay.

Inf/LV meta and unit design is such a fundamental thing to EiR that they definitely deserve a post all of their own to explore. But I do hope that eventually they will be examined and improved in the same subtle-yet-effective manner which tanks have been treated to.
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aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2016, 02:00:09 pm »

IIRC changing the scatter of alot of things can be really really scary
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You are welcome to your opinion.

You are also welcome to be wrong.
jackmccrack Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2484


« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 01:54:29 pm »

+1 Walkin
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Let's talk about PIATs in a car.
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