trenches too powerful, even inbalanced like in vanillaa

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[Guderian]

My list of a good trench


1. Good against tank shoots

2. Godly cover for the troops against artillery (but should be partly easy to be destroyed by it)

3. Green cover as now against troop fire.

4. some limit to it (1-2 trenches per unit)

5. double-triple build time as of the sandbag.

[stumpster]

We can but it involves changing every single weapon, which is time-consuming and goes against the team rules of not changing statistics.

Well you already changed the trenches once 

What he means is that this would involve changing weapon statistics, not the trench statistics.

Ideally, Trenches should be worth their setup time.  But if a Mortar or Howitzer shell happens to land in the middle of an enclosed space like the trench, expect to lose a lot of guys.

[MistenTHA]

One thing that could be worth trying is balancing trenches differently instead of damage taken.

Modify accuracy received.

At long range almost nothing can nail the troops instead except snipers, medium range it's a bit better but not. At short range trenches provide very little cover.

Trenches will be almost immune to tank, gun, artillery, mortar fire as well.

The main things that will work against trenches are the ones in vCoH, flamers, grenades, incin grenades. (but not the nebel)

What this means is that if you wanna engage in long range combat with a trench, the trench will beat you or hold you off a long time. Even heavy support weapons won't do anything.

But if you have overwhelming force, you can rush the position and take it fast.

If it's fairly even troops on both sides in that engagement and you still want to attack, then you need specialised weapons to clear the trenches out in quick time without closing too close.

[Pak75mm]

mortars own trenches like woah! so yeah

[jackmccrack]

Gives Axis a reason to carry nades 

Except Assault nades, screw those

[BigDick]

trenches are good like they are now...definitely not "under"powered

it is good that some kind of artillery will blow up the dudes inside

to get them just out by charging with infantry is just stupid...green cover is directional and when you charge sandbags you praise to live long enough to get behind it or into green cover as well...

you cannot get behind a trench or into get cover by yourself while standing close to the trench...

so it is no viable counter to charge with infantry (without nades)
so it is ok that mortar and offmap/onmap counter trenches when they hit (sounds realistic too)

[Spartacus85]

read it first bigdick....

it was about changing cover to "weak" for the close range... like reducing accuracy received on different distances.

tommies cost much more than any other infantry. they fight like shit, they die like flies and they can, if you have half an hour spare build a trench. when they get into the trench they're down 2 men down 4 men ... dead ...

so why use trenches at all? why use tommies? why play brits?

the axis have got a new army. the usa just lost all their doctrine abilities ...

[Mysthalin_Axis]

BigDick, how many times did you play brits now?
Oh, really, zero?
You've only played axis?
Stfu now please.

[BigDick]

tommies cost much more than any other infantry. they fight like shit, they die like flies and they can, if you have half an hour spare build a trench. when they get into the trench they're down 2 men down 4 men ... dead ...

lol tommies cost much? are you kidding me? They are 450 MP in vCOH and 265MP in EiR that is almost 50% off and ontop of this they move @ fullspeed
other infantry like e.g. volks are almost the same like vCOH

i hop near allways in a EiR trench when i see an empty...

and what should PE players say? they start with 3 men units

so why use trenches at all? why use tommies? why play brits?

tommys are one of the best brit units for that price....maybe the brit lack in mobile AT capabilities but definitely not in AI capabilities
i've to experiment with piats in brens a bit more

the axis have got a new army. the usa just lost all their doctrine abilities ...

they lost all their spam abilities yes.....and know have to think different in playing combined arms....


there is one very annoying thing that is the threadbreaker...that is for me a kind of broken because you can't self destroy your sitting duck and its immobilized until fully repaired (so u can't use this unit but it use popcap)

they should change this (don't know if it is possible) to be not immobilized after 2 minutes of repair....

[MistenTHA]

lol tommies cost much? are you kidding me? They are 450 MP in vCOH and 265MP in EiR that is almost 50% off and ontop of this they move @ fullspeed
other infantry like e.g. volks are almost the same like vCOH

Actually the 4 men gren squad of Wehr (300 mp) comes very close to beating the 5 man infantry section (450 mp). Try it out some time. That's why the pio spam -> grens works so well. Once you get grenadiers infantry sections lose their combat advantage squad vs squad.

They probably cost more because of the early MP boost Brits get in vanilla (no need for building or engineer-type units) and truck based resource boost.

[Mysthalin_Axis]

*sigh*
Brits have a resource advantage in vCoH, their T1 units are the same as T2 units of other factions which is why they cost so much more - to balance it out.
In EiRR brits don't have the tech advantage or the resource advantage, and that has not been taken into consideration when the brits were being made.

[CrazyWR]

Its realistic that trenches are cleared by artillery?  Have you ever read about WWI?

[UnLimiTeD]

I read when a 25pound grenade land's right on your head, you will likely die.
Unless your in a british invincibility trench, of course.

[acker]

Do more reading. You are 50 times more likely to survive a artillery barrage in a trench than you are on open ground. Unless you play COH, which is 1000x more likely...

Of course, this game also somehow allows you to maneuver out of an artillery barrage, so realism goes out the window there. Trenches are disproportionately huge in comparison to the concentration of fire, which also makes things seem screwy in COH.

A 25pdr shell only contains an average of 7% of its weight of HE. I'm not sure why, probably due to the quality of the shell.

[Lionel-Richie]

It's realistic that mortars clear trenches though, due to their arc.

Not entirely sure about artillery...it's better to be in a bunker though.

[MistenTH]

However in terms of gameplay differentiation we don't have a type of cover that provides very good artillery cover. The trench could be unique in this sense.

[Lionel-Richie]

It would make sense, given the nature of the brits.

[brn4meplz]

I've gotta clear something up here. This is painfull to read.


The modern Mortar as we know it(man portable) Fires in a high ballistic arc it's shells go up and down almost exactly like that the shells are manufactured in large quantities hence the need for the Mortar to change it's vertical angle to hit different distances.


Howitzers are also indirect weapons but because of the distances they typically fire their arc of shot is much more gradual over their distance. Like a Sharp mountain(mortars) to a gradual hill(Howitzers) Howitzers can also use different types of propellant to affect their shot

The reason why Howitzer shells carry less High explosive is because the shells are actually made thicker to take the impact of qucik acceleration so they don't shear in flight. Mortar shells don;t have this issue as their speed is much less, hence the reason why mortar shells carry a higher HE/Shell ratio. Also most artillery shells are designed as shrapnel delivery systems, much like a hand grenade. In an artillery barrage the reason why being closer to the ground or beneath it is safer is because when something explodes at ground level there is less likelihood that is shrapnel will travel parallel to the ground. IF however your trench suffers a direct hit from a Howitzer shell or mortar shell your boned, there is no way you'll survive that the blast forces alone in a confined area would tear your insides apart

sorry for the education lesson.

Back on topic. It woudl make sense that the closer you are to a trench the more accurate you are. MP44 storms rushing a trench SHOULD have no problem spraying the dudes inside it.

[Tymathee]

....2 much reading...must...play...video games