oakleaves and swords (terror)

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[Mysthalin]

No, BAR with suppresion just won't be capable of killing a 4 man KCH. They'll sit through the getting pinned part, then kill the BARs once they're out of the pinning(if they don't do that before they're pinned).
LMG will pretty much destroy a commando squad if it's in any kind of cover, and if it also pops medikits, gg.

[CafeMilani]

LMG will pretty much destroy a commando squad if it's in any kind of cover, and if it also pops medikits, gg.

nope, completely wrong. seems u gotta try mados out

[gamesguy2]

No, BAR with suppresion just won't be capable of killing a 4 man KCH. They'll sit through the getting pinned part, then kill the BARs once they're out of the pinning(if they don't do that before they're pinned).
LMG will pretty much destroy a commando squad if it's in any kind of cover, and if it also pops medikits, gg.

No, once you pin with bars the KCH will stay pinned.   KCH is hard to suppress but once they suppress they have the same recovery rate as everything else.   Meaning once they are pinned, as long as the bars fire at them, they will always be pinned.

No, I've seen commandos destroy two single LMG grenadier squads.  Run in, pop smoke, throw nade and start shooting.  Focus fire will rape one LMG squad extremely fast and you get the free first strike+get into close range with the smoke.

[Mysthalin]

Aloha, knowing you, your immense capabilities at logical thinking and completely unbiased take on things, I am sure to do exactly what you suggested, seeing as you always test out any unit you have any hunch of being OP versus very good players and do not have to constantly smurf just to get games.

1. The KCH won't stay pinned, actualy, due to 0.5 recieved suppresion modifier from BARs to them.
2. If we're taking into account smoke AND nades, I think it's fair if I take assault into account on KCH. There, BARs suddenly not capable of suppresing the KCH, at all.

[gamesguy2]

.
1. The KCH won't stay pinned, actualy, due to 0.5 recieved suppresion modifier from BARs to them.

You make me do the math and prove it to you everytime mystalin, and everytime you are wrong.

Two bars at close range output 0.045 suppression per second.  The garands add a little more but lets ignore that, halve that against KCH and its 0.0225 per second, halve it again for light cover and its 0.01125 per second.

KCH suppression recovery rate is the same as grenadiers at 0.008 per second.

So no, as long as two bars fire on the KCH at close range, the KCH will never be unpinned.

2. If we're taking into account smoke AND nades, I think it's fair if I take assault into account on KCH. There, BARs suddenly not capable of suppresing the KCH, at all.

You only need nades against two LMG armed grenadier squads.   Against one you can just charge, you don't even need smoke.

[Mysthalin]

Gamesguy, you have not once proved me wrong, only corrected me on the way bursts work and I am rather offended by the tone you approach me with.
Two bars actualy deal 0.0525 suppresion per burst vs KCH, so that means it will take 4 bursts to suppress the KCH, with a 1.75 second cooldown on the BARs.
With suppresive fire, the rifles will suppress the KCH in a single burst, then take 4 more before they're pinned, already taking immense casualties until they suppress the KCH, and by the time suppresion fire is over(if the rifles survive until pinning), the rifles will have to reload their BARs - that's 3 seconds of doing nothing while the KCH gracefuly slither away into a cave, having taken basicaly no damage due to the dodge bonuses suppresion gives them, and the debuffs SF gives.

[CafeMilani]

who fucking cares about which unit will win this stupid fight?
fact is that these KCH need a long time (due to stupid SF) to kill them. this makes rifle BARS so strong.

and now stop this, get back to KCH only (or make another thread, i dont care)

[gamesguy2]

Gamesguy, you have not once proved me wrong, only corrected me on the way bursts work and I am rather offended by the tone you approach me with.
Two bars actualy deal 0.0525 suppresion per burst vs KCH, so that means it will take 4 bursts to suppress the KCH, with a 1.75 second cooldown on the BARs.
With suppresive fire, the rifles will suppress the KCH in a single burst, then take 4 more before they're pinned, already taking immense casualties until they suppress the KCH, and by the time suppresion fire is over(if the rifles survive until pinning), the rifles will have to reload their BARs - that's 3 seconds of doing nothing while the KCH gracefuly slither away into a cave, having taken basicaly no damage due to the dodge bonuses suppresion gives them, and the debuffs SF gives.

1v1 me in vcoh with KCH vs bar rifles, I guarantee you the KCH will not win.

Your anectodal evidence is worthless.

And I've proved you wrong lots.  Every single time you force me to boot up corsix and make a screenshot of the game stats, and thats happened what? Three times now?  Its a pain in the ass to have to dig through game stats  and prove it to you everytime you claim something thats completely wrong.

[Sharpshooter14]

1v1 me in vcoh with KCH vs bar rifles, I guarantee you the KCH will not win.

Your anectodal evidence is worthless.

@ Gamesguy (My posts fail I already know so..)

Im sorry but whens the last time you've played vCoH?
There are so many factors to consider, like..RANGE, what type of cover, WHAT vet level both units are.. ETC.
Vet 3 rifles with BARs in heavy cover are going to win against KCH vet 3, thats because US units with veterancy recieve not only defensive bonuses but offensive too. The reason why is obviously, US has to earn vet, wehr just has to buy it..this is nothing like vCoH when it comes to veterancy. In saying all of this, Vet 3 KCH VS vet 3 rifles would be a pretty even match up but you have to consider many factors before saying ''RIFLES BEAT KCH WITH SF''

[gamesguy2]

1v1 me in vcoh with KCH vs bar rifles, I guarantee you the KCH will not win.

Your anectodal evidence is worthless.

@ Gamesguy (My posts fail I already know so..)

Im sorry but whens the last time you've played vCoH?
There are so many factors to consider, like..RANGE, what type of cover, WHAT vet level both units are.. ETC.
Vet 3 rifles with BARs in heavy cover are going to win against KCH vet 3, thats because US units with veterancy recieve not only defensive bonuses but offensive too. The reason why is obviously, US has to earn vet, wehr just has to buy it..this is nothing like vCoH when it comes to veterancy. In saying all of this, Vet 3 KCH VS vet 3 rifles would be a pretty even match up but you have to consider many factors before saying ''RIFLES BEAT KCH WITH SF''

In anything except heavy cover(why would you charge heavy cover KCH?), suppressive fire outputs so much suppression that the KCH literally cannot win, ever.

Vet 0 rifles vs vet 0 KCH, the rifles will win with SF every time.

[Mysthalin]

Go ask KeithTharp (vet3Keeps) how much his useless KCH that can't beat anything deal with BARs.
Clearly, with BARs being such uber weapons KCH would never vet up to vet 2, let alone vet 3.
Oh wait, we got 6 Vet 2 and above KCH from one single player - clearly BARs aren't much of a problem to him, seeing as they're uber pwning and thusly every allied player has millions of them.

Honestly, your tone is very insulting, and there is no point in attempting to continue a discussion with you - even aloha is more civil than you are(and that's saying something).

[Sharpshooter824]

Lets say KCH and rifles are in no cover, the BAR rifles start using suppression fire while losing squad members from those crazy MP44s. Those rifles are busy suppressing the KCH but not doing much more then taking a sliver of HP from them, (Because of the accuracy modifiers while using SF) while KCH are being suppressed they are owning the rifles before they even get pinned, by the time the rifles manage to completely pin the KCH, (IF they even do) the rifles are down to 2-3 squad members and don't have the firepower to kill the KCH before the KCH become unpinned and eat the rest of the rifles for lunch.

Vet 0 KCH > Vet 0 rifles

[gamesguy2]

Go ask KeithTharp (vet3Keeps) how much his useless KCH that can't beat anything deal with BARs.
Clearly, with BARs being such uber weapons KCH would never vet up to vet 2, let alone vet 3.
Oh wait, we got 6 Vet 2 and above KCH from one single player - clearly BARs aren't much of a problem to him, seeing as they're uber pwning and thusly every allied player has millions of them.

That proves nothing.  You argued that KCH will beat bar rifles in 1v1, this is not true.   Bar rifles with SF will beat KCH.   Vet 3 KCH gets another halved suppression modifier so its possible they will actually win, but even then its risky because you could get naded while suppressed.

And the top commandos have vastly more xp than KCH, if we're measuring unit effectiveness by the leaderboard.

Honestly, your tone is very insulting, and there is no point in attempting to continue a discussion with you - even aloha is more civil than you are(and that's saying something).

I'm sick and tired of you claiming something thats not true, me correcting you, and you forcing me to dig up game stats with corsix to prove it to you.  You do this everytime.    The only time I'm forced to make screenshots of corsix is you.  Everyone else just looks it up themselves, you should try that sometime instead of forcing me to do it.

[Akranadas]

Oh get off your high Horse Gamesguy.

Enough of this, if you guys can't act civil to each other. The you don't have the right to have this discussion.

-Closed-