How to counter wher mortar spam?

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[Killer344]

Following Freek´s logic if they are so survivable there should be more vet 3/2 mortar hts.

[pernik]

Hmm I think the problem with MHT is that it just stays on the field till it dies and it is easier to kill when you drop Paras with RRs or hunt it down with tank (if it got destroyed engine it's basically dead even behined enemy lines) BUT it causes a lot of troubles while on the field... If Axis mortar is threatened and takes shot, that 1 guy (even more if it's babysitted by vetwhore)who'll most likely survive will flee to spawn saving the veterancy.  

[Tymathee]

mortar ht's die really easy to any type of anti tank.

also, because mht's are so deadly, they're usually a huge target, and they're very vulnerable to both artillery fire (any type) and anti tank (any type) so thats why there's so few. Its so easy to forget about it at times and then a ranger duo or rr duo or a tank comes up and rapes it.

[Duckordie]

Armor rush

[BigDick]

Don't get me started on mort-ht's  Those things are fucking impossible to hit if the PE dude isn't a no0b.
There is 0 reason to use allied mortar, because axis mortar will just wtfpwn it.

mortar ht can be good but only it hides behind a building and you are very close to that on the other side of this building
otherwise a infantry supported AT gun crawl completely destroys PE

Precision strike- so f***ing fast that even a microed at gun can't escape.  I've seen first call in's get anihilated after their atg get's destroyed by an axis player's 'I win' precision strike.

that is fucking bullshit
a precision strike never destroys an AT gun it takes out the crew and damage the AT gun to more than health HP
other than e.g. infantry company offmap that is in most cases a destroyed pak38

that is why a precision strike on AT guns is a waste and only in "i need that at gun fast decrewed to escape with my tank" cases viable on AT guns

So, in short, there is no hard counter to axis mortars.  Howie's die too easily, and actually getting the mortar is not guaranteed, much less a mort-ht.  Offmaps are too slow to hit.  Banzai charges, even if they get the mortar (don't get me started about mort-ht), actually offset the axis' loss of 1(!) mortar vs. inumerable allied casualties.

there are snipers, counter mortaring (the range is not that much bigger so counter mortar works in most cases), rush it with a tank, onmapsoffmaps...

and i barely see wehr players with more than one mortar

Just an FYI, the highest vetted allied mortar has less than 100xp.  The highest wehr mortar has 360ish xp. 

the highest vetted axis halftrack has only 3xp the highest vetted us halftrack 14XP

the highest vetted quad has 97xp the highest puma 50xp

nernerfnerf rarrarwararabrawar

[Baine]

AFAIk (I don't know much about emplacements) the mortar pit takes much longer to move, and has shorter range... and building under axis mortar fire is risky. 

You really don't know much about emplacements.

Mortar pits pwn every other mortar, especially since they are so hard to kill(basically indestructible through indirect fire).

[Tymathee]

AFAIk (I don't know much about emplacements) the mortar pit takes much longer to move, and has shorter range... and building under axis mortar fire is risky. 

You really don't know much about emplacements.

Mortar pits pwn every other mortar, especially since they are so hard to kill(basically indestructible through indirect fire).

but if you're spotted building it, you're screwed

[Latios418]

mortar ht's die really easy to any type of anti tank.

also, because mht's are so deadly, they're usually a huge target, and they're very vulnerable to both artillery fire (any type) and anti tank (any type) so thats why there's so few. Its so easy to forget about it at times and then a ranger duo or rr duo or a tank comes up and rapes it

I have to seriously disagree.

MHTs outrun most types of anti-tank, and regardless should be protected.They should be supporting your troops, not off on the other side of the map with no other units nearby whatsoever.

MHTs are a huge target, yes. They're not vulnerable to artillery fire at all. Mortars are useless against them. They will escape the barrage AoE of any type of howitzer after the first shell, which will require completely luck to hit and not come close to killing the MHT.Calliope fares a bit better but that's a 600mp/450fu t3 investment so it should.

They die to anti-vehicle weaponry just as fast as.... every other armoured car/halftrack variant in the game. They can survive a couple of hits, dodge a lot, and quickly escape max range. The only difference between them and say, a quad, is that they can't kill the infantry at close range (dur). But that's what your other units are for.

"it's so easy to forget about it" is a sign of a huge lack of skill. If you forget your units, especially in something this small scale, you have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself.

[Jazlizard]

As someone who tries to make the most out of his mortar. I felt I needed to weigh in.

First off, counter motaring as an ally isn't impossible, far from it. As someone has already mentioned your rate of fire is higher, and I find when you do get the drop on an axis mortar usually once is all you need unless the opponent has very good micro. However, I repeat it's not impossible, but I see people make the same mistakes over and over with their motars.

I wouldn't use the amount of xp as an example either, other then myself and TerrorTactics, the mortar xp tables are much closer then what some would like to admit, although I will conceit that the axis mortar comes out ahead, however ours also costs 65mp and 15mun more then the allied version.

You don't have to snipe the mortar, although obviously this works well,  but if it's covered too well by other units to risk your sniper, then use it as a spotter! When it moves and sets up, blow it to hell with your already setup mortar with your superior rate of fire and bye-bye axis mortar.

Anyways, I obviously don't want to give away too many strategies (hey my poor guy has a bounty on his head). But I honestly feel that some people are trying to exaggerate a bit much.

[Sharpshooter824]

I really don't see how the RoF is any good considering by the time you've popped all those shells off with an allied mortar the damage is so crappy that only 1-2 shells hit before the axis mortar has moved..

And armor rush is just a plain stupid idea if you want to suicide tanks

And another note, how are you supposed to flank on neunen? Especially with MGs in buildings covering mortars that just get recrewed after we manage to get lucky enough to decrew one. 

[DuckOfDoom]

You counter wehr support spam with the following units:

[Osprey]

Hehe 

AVRE isn't a bad counter if you can avoid the Paks, Shreks, Marders, Henschels and Geshutze thingys...

[AmPM]

I really don't see how the RoF is any good considering by the time you've popped all those shells off with an allied mortar the damage is so crappy that only 1-2 shells hit before the axis mortar has moved..

And armor rush is just a plain stupid idea if you want to suicide tanks

And another note, how are you supposed to flank on neunen? Especially with MGs in buildings covering mortars that just get recrewed after we manage to get lucky enough to decrew one. 

Wehr 81mm Mortar - 36 damage
Allied Mortar - 20 damage

Wehr 81mm Mortar Damage Modifier vs Infantry = 1
Allied Mortar Damage Modifier vs Infantry = 2

Final Damage per round:
Axis 36
Allied 40

Allied has faster RoF, and HIGHER damage per hit.

Axis one has range.

At least know what you are talking about when you argue.

[DuckOfDoom]

I really don't see how the RoF is any good considering by the time you've popped all those shells off with an allied mortar the damage is so crappy that only 1-2 shells hit before the axis mortar has moved..

And armor rush is just a plain stupid idea if you want to suicide tanks

And another note, how are you supposed to flank on neunen? Especially with MGs in buildings covering mortars that just get recrewed after we manage to get lucky enough to decrew one. 

Wehr 81mm Mortar - 36 damage
Allied Mortar - 20 damage

Wehr 81mm Mortar Damage Modifier vs Infantry = 1
Allied Mortar Damage Modifier vs Infantry = 2

Final Damage per round:
Axis 36
Allied 40

Allied has faster RoF, and HIGHER damage per hit.

Axis one has range.

At least know what you are talking about when you argue.

Except allied infantry has so little health that the axis mortar doesn't need the excess damage to gib half a rifle squad with 1 shot.

The axis mortar is also much more accurate where the allied mortar cant hit a broad side of a barn.

[Sharpshooter824]

You know what I mean duck.. allied units have less HP meaning wehr mortar is gonna gank them easier..

[AmPM]

Actually, the Axis Mortar team has the same health as a Rifleman, 55hp per guy.

So in the context of counter mortaring, its not an issue.

vs Grenadiers or Stormies, yes they have more HP. They also cost more, and have fewer men per squad.

Panzer Grens are the worst off, with 55hp and small squads.

[Baine]

AFAIk (I don't know much about emplacements) the mortar pit takes much longer to move, and has shorter range... and building under axis mortar fire is risky. 

You really don't know much about emplacements.

Mortar pits pwn every other mortar, especially since they are so hard to kill(basically indestructible through indirect fire).

but if you're spotted building it, you're screwed

DOH! Same with 88 by the way... DOH! again.

[Osprey]

Oh come one, you know that in a battlefield environment the Axis mortar always gets in first due to it's range, battlefield experience proves this to be true. Only axis commanders silly enough to put the mortar close up loses them to US mortars, and only idiots would put one in the range of a Brit mortar (About the same range as a grasshopper trying to throw a shot-put).

True, when the Brit or US mortar get a volley on target, they will win out. But the range and accuracy of Allied mortars means this is uncommon as best, and as for the PE Mortar, the allies don't stand a change at barraging back.

I'm not saying Axis mortars are OP, just that they are clearly superior to allied mortars. This is a subject that has been argued countless times and we all know the balance is right, even if no-one will admit it.

[Malevolence]

Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance

Because we all know that extra damage, speed, health, armor, accuracy, et c. are nonrelevant to how well a unit can do its job, right? 

[Benevolence]

Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance

As mal says, the extra health, damage, accuracy have large part in battles. Especially the cooldown modifiers on things like calliopies, mortars and nebels.