Boyz AT Rifle

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[Piotrskivich]

RE could have a 2x build speed for sappers. Mines for sappers? (If it's not in yet)

Gammon bombs for tommies? (Oh dear button would be way OP with that)

lol just some ideas.

[Osprey]

On inspection I'm going to try out the Royal Artillery tree, if all else fails I can just arty spam like I used to back with old EIR US Infantry Company with T4 Arty...

[Scyn]

Don't really understand the problem here.. The AT rifle is not supposed to kill infantry.. it's a Light Vehicle killer. is it a price issue then I guess?

[Relay]

So now its almost the same cost as 2 brens to get a single AT rifle, the infantry accuracy was too high but the result of the price increase is that you won't see AT rifles fielded in the numbers required to do any significant damage to even the lightest vehicles.

Sappers with PIATs are cheaper in manpower and barely different in munitions, yet they can do incredible damage to any vehicle.

Keeping in mind that AT rifles are a tier 2 doctrine choice they should have some kind of advantage over the regular upgrade options. Can I suggest you make the Boys upgrade come with 2 AT rifles (like Brens and PIATs) and increase the price to around 120 munitions.

That way a player who chooses the doctrine has a reason to field AT rifles as an alternative to the more versatile and damaging PIATs should they prefer the accuracy, as a hard counter to light vehicles.

[Draken]

First post and with sense.

Are you RiceTea?

[DasNoob]

Aye Relay,

Nice post, sensible arguments and suggestions.  Wish a lot more posted like this instead of the normal half-throughout garbage.  Your doctrine argument holds some weight.

Ultimately we just need to start somewhere and begin pricing them into the game.  Give it some time, it's not like EIRRmod only updates every 3 months like old EIR 

[Relay]

Yes I am RiceTea. The reason I used AT rifles so much was not because they were OP, but because the concept of high powered rifles tearing through armor is kind of appealing. You probably expect me to be unreasonable in defending the rifles, but that is not my intent.

Its understandable that, although quite realistic, the rifles can't for gameplay sake be so effective against infantry. But as it stands it is unlikely you will ever see anyone fielding AT rifles again rather than brens. The addition of a completely original weapon in the mod is a great idea and it would be a shame to see it wasted by too much nerfing.

Perhaps with some more testing it will turn out to not be an unreasonable nerf. But when a weapon with such a specific role is priced individually more than an all round anti vehicle weapon, one would expect it to become ridiculously rare.

[Scyn]

x2 AT Rifles would incur twice the amount of damage as a Shreck to a Light vehicle. It has to be minimized in order to get the desired effect, which is that you can damage, deter, or kill Light vehicles without a 6lbr or a tank.

[Latios418]

Then minimalize the cost too. For 20 more munitions, you get the ability to completely destroy light vehicles and medium tanks without a 6lber or tank. For 5 less munitions (iirc) you get a weapon that will create a no-go zone around one of your infantry squads that no vehicle will dare enter, lest it die a painful death. That weapon is also incredibly effective against infantry. This Boys AT is sadly more expensive, nigh useless against infantry, and not even as useful as bren guns against a vehicle. I would rather face a Boys than a Bren if I were using a Puma.

[Scyn]

Actually, we just got done nerfing the AT Rifle vs Infantry into oblivion.

[Latios418]

err, I was talking about the bren gun when I said for 5 less munitions. (brens ARE 75 right?)

[Unkn0wn]

Brens are 90 Mun.

[Scyn]

See I was unaware you can't get a Boyz AT and a Bren gun. That's quite a possible incoming change.

[Relay]

AT rifles by themselves can't do anything to tanks so it would make sense to always have an 6lbr or tank in support or your infantry sections would be massacred. The shrek is an all purpose anti vehicle weapon able to penetrate and do great damage to every vehicle the allies can field.

The point I was trying to make was that if you wish for AT rifles to have such a specific anti light vehicle role, they ought to be proficient at it. Because chances are, they won't find a place in call ins when PIATs and Brens are the alternative.

[Scyn]

It's incredibly hard to say No to Piats when they can pass through objects.

[Latios418]

Oh, 10 more munitions. Woops.

The point still stands, though. For 10 more munitions, you get an excellent set of anti-infantry weapons that also create a complete no-go zone for vehicles. I simply do not see any reason to take a Boys AT. It costs 80 munitions to take away 20% of your squad's anti-infantry firepower and replace it with something that'll kill light scout units and maybe frighten PE Armoured Cars. For 10 more munitions you can INCREASE your anti-infantry by more than 20%, and at the same time getting an increase in anti light vehicle power (brens are somewhat effective against lighter units themselves) and an ability which makes a complete no-go zone around the squad for vehicles of any type, which can seriously limit mobility and get a vehicle to stop chasing one of your units by going behind your bren.

[EIRRMod]

And its a baseline price.

If its too much, we reduce it.

Or make it more appealing, with an ability etc.

[Latios418]

Are the Boys AT statistics changed at all from vCoH? I modded a squad of two in to see how effective they were and two of them took well over a minute to kill a single wehr halftrack in the open. If that's what 160 munitions has to offer....

EDIT: Just fyi, it was at medium range. And perhaps their is some sort of modifiers involved with halftracks, because at the same range they were much more effective against a puma.

More EDIT: Boys AT seemed to be completely unable to destroy buildings. For base buildings, it would take them down to 5% health and never kill them. At one point I had 50 Boys firing at said buildings to no effect. This includes bunkers and the Flak cannons. As for map buildings, the Boys seems almost completely incapable of damaging them. One or ten firing at it does absolutely nothing; fifty took it's hp down in slivers.

[salan]

See I was unaware you can't get a Boyz AT and a Bren gun. That's quite a possible incoming change.

Uh, why would that be a possible incoming change, specially after grens can't double up.

[Relay]

Are the Boys AT statistics changed at all from vCoH?

The AT rifles are in vCoh? I have never seen them, where are they?