Improved Armor

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[acker]

+10 range is a lot of range when you figure it out.  When an M10 can outrange a P4 by 15 range, it's almost impossible for the p4 to win.

IMO range bonuses should be very, very limited, and only +5 at most.  It changes the game mechanics basically, look at the T4 airborne now with range longer than a p4!

+5 range and sight or even +10% range and sight is a fantastic bonus for almost any tank, worthy of a T4 spot. I could only compare it to +20% damage or +30% health.  M10 with health bonus will basically be used like a cromwell with flank speed anyway, for running inf over.

Yes exactly, and with tanks which can kill infantry to some point (such as a P4) these range bonuses are a godsend since no handheld AT will be able to get in range, even from a building.

+10 range is probably too much (well, it only applies to one dedicated TD model for most players). +5 range and something else would probably more balanced. But, seriously, +5 sight? It's been pointed out multiple times that you're going to need a spotter anyways, even with the sight bonus. So the sight bonus is kinda redundant.

So the T3 is like the T2 Improved Barrels. That only applies to M10s/M18s. With a redundant "buff" attached to it.

[jackmccrack]

So the T3 is like the T2 Improved Barrels. That only applies to M10s/M18s. With a redundant "buff" attached to it.

aka it's a piece of shit bonus that would only affect 2 vehicles that die quickly. All that for a T3.

Don't even waste my time.

Leave Improved Armor as it is.

[Tymathee]

Another reason why range is a useless buff to M10s is because its primary use it to circle strafe (close range dance of doom). That "extra shot" you get from having more range is likely to misfire anyways.

I use my m10's to kite tanks even now with that extra 5 range. I've won m any a fight that way. Move out of range liek 50-55 away, move in to 45, shoot, scoot away before they can fire back. Circle strafing only works when y ou've got the openness to do that but what about city fights with tanks? Or if there's no room to circle strafe or if there's a tank coming and they've got a pak or schrecks behind it so you can't circle stafe, and the m10 is your only at at that moment, then what? Allow your position to get run over? Circle stafe anyway and get raped? Or do you kite it? Me, I kite it, if I had the +5 sight/range, then I can easily out range the tank.

So the T3 is like the T2 Improved Barrels. That only applies to M10s/M18s. With a redundant "buff" attached to it.

aka it's a piece of shit bonus that would only affect 2 vehicles that die quickly. All that for a T3.

Don't even waste my time.

Leave Improved Armor as it is.

25% health isn't that great of a T3 for m10's and m18's, just like 15% health for infantry with rifles is a sucky t3, i've made that argument already but that's for another post.

The thing is like ampm said, that one extra shot can be huge. You can shoot without being shot at, you can draw them in and with +5 sight, you can see them and they can't see you, even if its just 5 sight, you still out range and out sight them, that is freakin huge. Also, since you love circle strafing...you can circle strafe from out of their range as well and really screw them.

[spinn72]

+5 sight will help when the tank rushes in first, like all tank's youll need a spotter to shoot further.  It's not completely redundant, actually it helps the enitre team a little.

Really i thought the goal of armour company was to make all tanks act like they've got a CCT attached to it by the end of T3, and make the T4 make the tanks seem like they have 2 CCTs on them.

[Tymathee]

+5 sight will help when the tank rushes in first, like all tank's youll need a spotter to shoot further.  It's not completely redundant, actually it helps the enitre team a little.

Really i thought the goal of armour company was to make all tanks act like they've got a CCT attached to it by the end of T3, and make the T4 make the tanks seem like they have 2 CCTs on them.

I didn't get htat but it'd be awesome if it makes tanks actually perform better at what they're good at. I'd love to see Shermans get an ability that ups their splash damage but lowers their penetration and/or accuracy.

[acker]

+5 sight will help when the tank rushes in first, like all tank's youll need a spotter to shoot further.  It's not completely redundant, actually it helps the enitre team a little.

Does it help your team as much as Improved Barrels? Would you trade that +5 sight for +5 range on your Pershings, Shermans, Crocodiles, and M10s (not to mention every other tank you get from the Reinforcement packages)?



You've said what I've been saying all this time again. You need a spotter regardless.

On the defensive, people don't exactly place their M10s on the front lines. They use Jeeps or Rifles as the front, to spot ahead. The sight bonus is useless on the defensive.

On the offensive, the situation is somewhat different. As you've stated, the +5 sight helps when the tank rushes in first. However, only the +5 sight helps. If the tank rushes in first (as per your scenario), it's spotting the enemy first. However, the sight bonus is still 5 units less than the M10's original range. In short, the M10's extended range doesn't do anything, only the sight bonus helps. If you are advancing ahead with infantry before armor, then the sight bonus is, once again, worthless.

So, in short, you are getting a T3 that adds +5 range OR +5 sight in the best case scenario, on one vehicle model. That isn't exactly T3 worthy. Improved Barrels grants the range bonus to all your tanks, including heavies, mediums, and anti-infantry as a T2.

I'm done here. I'll do my best to avoid this topic.