Improved Armor

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[AmPM]

+5 range +5 sight

[jackmccrack]

Hardly worth a T3

[acker]

It would need a spotter to use the extra range, anyways. +5 sight isn't exactly a good buff.

[AmPM]

lol, +10 sight and +10 range is a t4.

A t3 costs half as much of your company options.

[acker]

Yeah, it's called Telescopic Sights. It's probably underpowered, but it still applies to the Jagdpanther, Panther, and Hetzer (not just the M10), as I noted before in a post directly responding to yours. Did you read it? It's Reply #12.

*edit*: Sorry, Reply #12's part about Telescopic Sights was directed towards Warlight, not AMPM. But the post is still there.

By the way, Telescopic Sights give +5 range, not +10. Unless they changed it from the Doctrine list in Important Information and Download Links.

[jackmccrack]

We will see how it goes when the numbers are actually implemented. Even though the ability says "completed", the +25% HP bonus was not correctly given. I've told salan about this bug and he says it will be fixed next patch. We will see how it goes.

[AmPM]

Its now +10 range +10 sight.

Its damned good actually.

+5 range and +5 sight applying to M10's and M18's would not be a bad choice. You get a load of cheap anti armor that can't be hit back by most tanks. All it has to watch out for is ATGs.

[acker]

Its now +10 range +10 sight.

Its damned good actually.

+5 range and +5 sight applying to M10's and M18's would not be a bad choice. You get a load of cheap anti armor that can't be hit back by most tanks. All it has to watch out for is ATGs.

+10 range/sight to JagdPanthers, Panthers, and Hetzers? That's really good, then. Much, much better than +10 range or a +5 range/+something to the M10.

In response to the last part of your post, in case you didn't read the two posts directly under your first post suggesting this...

Hardly worth a T3

It would need a spotter to use the extra range, anyways. +5 sight isn't exactly a good buff.

M10 gun also has a .8 second windup, unlike most other tank guns. You have to stay in range longer to fire. Read my first post on this again.

[Tymathee]

Its now +10 range +10 sight.

Its damned good actually.

+5 range and +5 sight applying to M10's and M18's would not be a bad choice. You get a load of cheap anti armor that can't be hit back by most tanks. All it has to watch out for is ATGs.

Agreed. I like that, and with the +5 to sight as well, you get 40 range, which means if you run into a p4 or stug, which has range 40 and sight 35, you're going to get the first shot off every time, which is huge with m10's and m18's.

A +5 sight and range on the m18 pe rsonally isn't that huge since m18's have low frontal penetration anyway, it'll mainly be good on the first strike bonus but after that unless you're behind the tank wont matter.

[AmPM]

Yea, but the M18 has that problem anyway, may as well give it a boost.

Umm...oh no, a spotter....darn, so you can't just go off all Rambo?

Tell me that range bonuses suck when you get hit by my MARDER from 70 range.

Or my Hetzer at 60.

[jackmccrack]

The range bonus sucks.

[acker]

Yea, but the M18 has that problem anyway, may as well give it a boost.

Umm...oh no, a spotter....darn, so you can't just go off all Rambo?

Tell me that range bonuses suck when you get hit by my MARDER from 70 range.

Or my Hetzer at 60.

Nice non sequitur. At least you acknowledged you'd need a spotter anyways, making the +5 sight on the M10..well, not worthless, but probably not adequate. Did you read my first post?

+25% HP is going to be implemented anyways...ah, well. Best to bring this up later if need be.

[Warlight]

Its +10% range, I think thats differant than the +1-.  Unless the Tooltip is wrong in the launch for the Tank Hunters T4.

And thats a big differance from +10, though I'm not even sure +10% even makes sence.

[AmPM]

There is nothing wrong with a Doctrine not making a vehicle RAMBO.

Range bonus is nice, it allows you to hit first every time, it allows you to kite. Having to put a unit slightly ahead is not a bad thing, and makes play more interesting.

+5 range is the important part, but +5 sight is nice to have too.

Remember, range lets you AVOID damage entirely.

[acker]

Its +10% range, I think thats differant than the +1-.  Unless the Tooltip is wrong in the launch for the Tank Hunters T4.

And thats a big differance from +10, though I'm not even sure +10% even makes sence.

*confusion*

Is it +10%, or is it +10?

[AmPM]

IT is supposed to be +10, however its bugged because someone put it in wrong, and its +10%. Its getting fixed.

[acker]

There is nothing wrong with a Doctrine not making a vehicle RAMBO.

...Non sequitur (and no shit), once again. If you really wanted this vehicle to not be RAMBO, as you put it, you wouldn't suggest the sight increase.

Range bonus is nice, it allows you to hit first every time, it allows you to kite. Having to put a unit slightly ahead is not a bad thing, and makes play more interesting.

No shit. Once again, the sight bonus is probably not worth it because you're going to need a spotter anyways, as you've pointed out yourself twice. Do you even read my posts?

+5 range is the important part, but +5 sight is nice to have too.

...As a T3? Exclusively on the M10? Do I have to quote Jack again?

Remember, range lets you AVOID damage entirely.

No shit, once again. Sorta like T2 Improved Barrel Panthers, right?

Unless you're honestly saying that +5 sight/+5 range for one tank model is better than +10% range for all your tank models...as a T3-T2 comparison...

Edit: 2 Tank models, sorry. If you own TOV, of course.

[spinn72]

+10 range is a lot of range when you figure it out.  When an M10 can outrange a P4 by 15 range, it's almost impossible for the p4 to win.

IMO range bonuses should be very, very limited, and only +5 at most.  It changes the game mechanics basically, look at the T4 airborne now with range longer than a p4!

+5 range and sight or even +10% range and sight is a fantastic bonus for almost any tank, worthy of a T4 spot. I could only compare it to +20% damage or +30% health.  M10 with health bonus will basically be used like a cromwell with flank speed anyway, for running inf over.

 

Remember, range lets you AVOID damage entirely.

Yes exactly, and with tanks which can kill infantry to some point (such as a P4) these range bonuses are a godsend since no handheld AT will be able to get in range, even from a building.

[jackmccrack]

Range bonus is great until your spotter gets 1 shotted by a Pak/Marder. Oopsies, back to the drawing board!

[jackmccrack]

Another reason why range is a useless buff to M10s is because its primary use it to circle strafe (close range dance of doom). That "extra shot" you get from having more range is likely to misfire anyways.