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Improved Barrels
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Topic: Improved Barrels (Read 19030 times)
0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #20 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:42:11 pm »
why? Tanks do get cover bonuses. Its only behind green cover though, mainly tank carcasses. You ever noitce how at guns fire at tanks and sometimes hit stuff? Thats the cover bonus...
this is the 57mm vs tanks that are "behind" green cover.
Heavy 0.25 1 0.5 0.5
thats accuracy .25, dmg 1 suppression .5 (sutpid anyway) and penetration .5
«
Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 09:43:54 pm by Tymathee
»
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
IIPraeToriaNII
EIR Veteran
Posts: 121
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #21 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:43:31 pm »
and double lmg's shouldnt be a tier 2 'placeholder', and inspired assault shouldnt be t3, btw what tier is fireup, ap rounds, etc, etc, etc...?
this doctrine shit is all over the place...
i thought the passive vehicle cover was in play....
Logged
fuck off...
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #22 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:49:02 pm »
Modify Improved Barrels to be Penetration bonus (higher velocity, longer barrel), then make HEAT extra damage and splash for improved infantry killing goodness.....mmmm.....STuH.....Tiger...
..mmmm
Logged
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SaintPauli
EIR Veteran
Posts: 530
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #23 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:52:36 pm »
Quote from: gamesguy2 on July 05, 2009, 09:39:30 pm
Quote from: DuckOfDoom on July 05, 2009, 09:38:26 pm
Quote from: gamesguy2 on July 05, 2009, 09:24:04 pm
Tanks don't get cover bonuses.
O rly
then why do their weapons have a COVER TABLE? wow you are retarded
I'm just going to quote this so you can't delete it.
LOL @ Duck
Logged
pqumsieh
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #24 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:53:31 pm »
I think making heat rounds increase splash damage/radias and damage against infantry only would be a good idea. However, you might have to reduce its penetration if you increase its splash.
PQ
Logged
Common sense is not so common after all.
SaintPauli
EIR Veteran
Posts: 530
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #25 on:
July 05, 2009, 09:57:37 pm »
Quote from: IIPraeToriaNII on July 05, 2009, 09:43:31 pm
and double lmg's shouldnt be a tier 2 'placeholder', and inspired assault shouldnt be t3, btw what tier is fireup, ap rounds, etc, etc, etc...?
this doctrine shit is all over the place...
Agreed. Since the doctrines were implemented I haven’t seen Assault on anything but KCH whodoes not need to unlock it. Even if you unlock it it’s still going to cost you 65MU on your storms.
Quote from: AmPM on July 05, 2009, 09:49:02 pm
make HEAT extra damage and splash for improved infantry killing goodness.....mmmm.....STuH.....Tiger...
..mmmm
That’s just going to make it even better and it’s already the most popular T4 choice in Blitz.
Logged
Malevolence
Donator
Posts: 1871
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #26 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:08:16 pm »
Quote from: Duck
rly
then why do their weapons have a COVER TABLE? wow you are retarded
Because those are for use against infantry in that type of terrain. Vehicles get a special kind of cover called "vehicle cover", which is around a 20-25% incoming accuracy reduction while the vehicle is in contact with "yellow" or "green" cover. The problem with this is that tanks like to crush yellow and green cover by running them over, so craters are most effective.
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Akranadas' Greatest Hits, Volume 1:
Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.
Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
acker
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2053
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #27 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:15:16 pm »
Most American tanks/vehicles don't get vehicle cover. At least, in vCOH they don't. Relic fucked up, I'm not sure if the EIR dev team corrected that or not. In the most glaring example, all three Shermans don't have vehicle cover enabled.
ALL British tanks/vehicles DON'T have vehicle cover. EVERY Wehr/PE tank/vehicle POSSESSES vehicle cover, including Flak88s and Flakverlings.
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #28 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:16:17 pm »
Actually, it used to be all American tanks other than things that could by Smoke, now even those benefit from it.
Logged
acker
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2053
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #29 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:17:41 pm »
When did the EIR devs change it? It certainly wasn't changed by Relic in...patch 2.600, at least.
Logged
acker
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2053
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #30 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:20:12 pm »
Quote from: AmPM on July 05, 2009, 10:16:17 pm
Actually, it used to be all American tanks other than things that could by Smoke, now even those benefit from it.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=3571589&highlight=vehicle+cover#post3571589
Post #218. It was supposed to be implemented, but it wasn't. Unless the EIR devs changed something or Yurdle is wrong, quite a few American and every single British vehicle lack vehicle cover bonuses.
«
Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 10:24:08 pm by acker
»
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #31 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:26:47 pm »
Quote from: Tymathee on July 05, 2009, 09:42:11 pm
why? Tanks do get cover bonuses. Its only behind green cover though, mainly tank carcasses. You ever noitce how at guns fire at tanks and sometimes hit stuff? Thats the cover bonus...
this is the 57mm vs tanks that are "behind" green cover.
Heavy 0.25 1 0.5 0.5
thats accuracy .25, dmg 1 suppression .5 (sutpid anyway) and penetration .5
Tym you are seriously misinformed.
Infantry and only infantry get regular cover. Vehicles and tanks get something called "vehicle cover", which gives a 25% dodge bonus if you are sitting in a crater. In theory you can get vehicle cover by sitting behind sandbags, in reality vehicles tend to run those over. So every now and then you can park something behind a wreck to get the dodge bonus. In reality however, vehicles have to be constantly on the move, so vehicle cover is rarely used.
There is also no such thing as shot blocking in the game. This has been conclusively disproven a long time ago, see below.
http://www.coh-stats.com/basics/shotblocking.html
Logged
DasNoob
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3430
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #32 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:29:04 pm »
SE roadblocks make GREAT cover for a marder III. Build one and then park behind it. You get the green cover, and your barrel is high enough to shoot over it.
Logged
Quote from: fldash on Today at 06:22:34 PM
DISASTER AVERTED... IM A MOTHER FUCKING GENIUS!
Quote from: Smokaz on February 24, 2010, 11:45:39 am
You have DasNoob who uses the mod as COHTV
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #33 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:30:57 pm »
Quote from: DasNoob on July 05, 2009, 10:29:04 pm
SE roadblocks make GREAT cover for a marder III. Build one and then park behind it. You get the green cover, and your barrel is high enough to shoot over it.
Shot blocking does not exist.
Parking a marder III behind roadblocks give you 25% dodge bonus due to vehicle cover, and thats it. The shots that hit the roadblock are calculated misses.
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #34 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:32:04 pm »
Gamesguy is correct, HOWEVER, many things that miss actually hit due to scatter being low or getting lucky, Roadblocks and other types of hard cover prevent this to a great degree, so instead of a "Miss" hitting you, it hits the object.
Logged
acker
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2053
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #35 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:33:03 pm »
As I've said before, every Axis vehicle gets vehicle cover, including the Flak88. That's why building sandbags around Flaks works, because they have vehicle cover, not because the sandbags block shots. It should be noted that if you set vehicle cover to 100% misses, everything WILL MISS. No scatter shots hit whatsoever. Strange, but...well, strange, AMPM. Defies my game experience...
http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/wehrmacht/abilities/vehiclecover.html
I was going to say back on topic, but this is on topic.
«
Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 10:46:37 pm by acker
»
Logged
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #36 on:
July 05, 2009, 10:49:37 pm »
Quote from: AmPM on July 05, 2009, 10:32:04 pm
Gamesguy is correct, HOWEVER, many things that miss actually hit due to scatter being low or getting lucky, Roadblocks and other types of hard cover prevent this to a great degree, so instead of a "Miss" hitting you, it hits the object.
Thats only a real concern with handheld AT weapons though. AT guns and tank guns tend to either hit or miss by a mile, with no inbetween.
Against handheld AT personally I would be too busy trying to run away unless its zooks.
This is why relic never fixed the issue of allied tanks not getting vehicle cover. Because it almost never comes into play and 95% of the time it doesn't matter.
Logged
Atlanton
EIR Veteran
Posts: 66
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #37 on:
July 06, 2009, 03:26:24 pm »
This could be a shitty idea.
But what would happen if the Vet 2 range bonus to Panzer IV's would be given to Vet 2 StuG's?
It would make it so Panzer IV's would be less able to kite handheld AT at Vet 2.
Logged
salan
Synergies TL2 mod!
Posts: 6290
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #38 on:
July 06, 2009, 04:07:25 pm »
All CW units will be effected by vehicle cover in O patch.
Logged
www.synergiesmod.com
gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Improved Barrels
«
Reply #39 on:
July 06, 2009, 07:50:37 pm »
Going back on point, a tier 2 that gives +5 range to all tanks is simply too much.
I'd be quite content if it was say +5 range to stugs, stuhs, tigers, and ostwinds. It would be a decent tier 2 rather than an overpowering one.
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