Ok after some exploratory stuff I believe that the 57 needs some work..

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[NCOIC]

It seems that the paks get this cloaking device that enables them to get the bennies of AP rounds on the first shot. While one may have to reset the cloak after it's cool down time it in effect the pak gets unlimited AP rounds if you do this.... Also I understand that this is a passive thing in that you can set it and leave it alone until something triggers it. So ya get a gun that requires fairly less baby sitting than an 57, uses the AP ability a lot more than the few measly times that the 57 does thru the cloaking ability.


So how about evening things up a little bit here? Mebbe after you buy the AP rounds (that an AT gun should have by default!) You don't have to babysit the damm gun? Set it and let it loose. Now ya might keep it limited to 2 or so uses or charge more but i think that it's a bit unfair that the .57 has this limtation.

[EIRRMod]

57 vs Pak *AGAIN*

I thought after removing move from cloak this might go away

Still, interested what peoples thoughts are.

[Tymathee]

its fine. pak does 115 damage and the "ap round" makes it do better penetration and i think 140 or so damage one thing i'm still waiting for is the hold fire on at guns

[Aggamemnon]

Agree with the hold fire thing (personally I'd prefer it to never fire at infantry unless told to).

Again, personally, I think AP rounds should be single shot then timer single shot, would alleviate a few of the problems people have trying to get an effective use of Ap rounds, plus you could remount the gun and still have the benefit of what you paid for (like Pak Cloak is).

I wouldn't mind a slight damage reduction on normal rounds if it had to be price balanced. (prefer not to mess with base costs, as it fits a company well with what it is now).

Right now, I take British reinforcements and use their AT-guns, as they get cloak for free.
I used to take 2 ATG and 2 Airborne ATG, but it annoyed me there was a higher price on airborne ATG's AP rounds, especially as it's hard to keep them long enough to even get the full use.

I always thought the doctrine choice that gave cheaper airborne grenades should reduce the cost inline with ground based ATG-AP rounds (the name of the unlock escapes me now).

[Mysthalin]

Increase cost of 57s by 20 munitions, make AP round an ability on a cooldown like treadbreaker is - click it, use it against an enemy tank(treadbreaker style), fire normaly, after 2 minutes(and possibly 1987520 recrews), fire another AP round.

[Malevolence]

Make PaK decloak after one shot. Done.

[Jazlizard]

Doesn't it do that already?

[Malevolence]

No, the gun decloaks after 2, the crew after 3. Except the third guy, but he doesn't actually appear uncloaked until the third shot to your opponent.

Unless they changed it and I haven't noticed, that could've happened, too.

[EliteGren]

Pak decloaks after the first shot, no matter what.

[Mysthalin]

However, it goes like this :
Cloak shot - decloak shot - decloak shot - cloak shot - decloak shot - decloak shot - infinite loop.

[DuckOfDoom]

Paks are fine, 57mm and 6pnds NEED a hold fire button though, badly.

[Mukip]

By the way, has anybody noticed that at guns seem to be hitting each other most of the time again?  Was the accuracy nerf removed at some point?

[Malevolence]

I've been noticing PaKs getting anal raped by 57mm and 6 lber all of the time, otherwise no.

[Jazlizard]

Paks seem to get destroyed by 57mm.

[RikiRude]

paks have a higher muni cost to make up for their "free AP rounds" but this doesn't matter because AP rounds I believe make the 57 more expensive anyways, also a pak will get it's free AP rounds as long as it is on the field. a 57 could lose its AP rounds before it even gets a chance to use it on something, this of course carries over to the MG. which in my opinion is a good reason why there shoudl be a cost decrease on both of these. you assume the AP rounds would be left at the gun, not carried by the soldiers (not that realism really has a foot in here). I have all 4 MGs and all 4 ATGs in my infantry company, i win most games and I have AP rounds on every one of them. some games i am very thankful i have them, i pop AP rounds as soon as i see even a bike because i fear i won't be able to get all my uses out of them, same with sticky bombs, ill toss a sticky on a fucking ketten grad if it gets close enough. but that's just a liability of playing allies, one of the benefits of playing axis imo.

lets look at the sticky, 80 muni, same as an lmg, imagine if you bring out a lmg gren squad and you never even fire the lmg on them before they get killed. anyways im going off topic, ill stop haha.

[tankspirit666]

So how about evening things up a little bit here? Mebbe after you buy the AP rounds (that an AT gun should have by default!) You don't have to babysit the damm gun? Set it and let it loose. Now ya might keep it limited to 2 or so uses or charge more but i think that it's a bit unfair that the .57 has this limtation.

sarcasm on
Let's make an uniform army. Every faction can do the same as the other factions can at the same price of course.
sarcasm off

Pak40 was nerfed by not being able to move while being cloaked. An AT Gun deals more damage than a Pak40. Buffing the AT Guns makes the PE even less attractive, that they currently are.

Nuff said.....

[Mysthalin]

An AT Gun deals more damage than a Pak40

First of all, it's a pak38.
Secondly, an AT gun deals as much damage on each shot as a pak deals on it's first, and even if a pak and a 57 are put together, without either AP rounds OR cloak being used, the pak does more damage per second than the 57.
Actualy, it is not even WORTH USING the semi-auto ATG bug on a pak, due to how fast it shoots.