Piat Ambush

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[anthony210]

I think adding a cooldown on cloak for all cloaked units exiting vehicle would be fair,  even cloaked units exiting after their ride is destroyed.

[SaintPauli]

QUESTION: The piats get the ambush bonus when cloaked in cover. Does the “garrison cover” they get when the halftracks count towards this?

ON A SIDE NOTE:  I have noticed that zappers are able to a territory even when cloaked. This is extremely OPowerfull on maps with large sectors!

[LuAn]

QUESTION: The piats get the ambush bonus when cloaked in cover. Does the “garrison cover” they get when the halftracks count towards this?

ON A SIDE NOTE:  I have noticed that zappers are able to a territory even when cloaked. This is extremely OPowerfull on maps with large sectors!

Answer: no it doesnt

On a side note: thats a bug i believe and not intended.

[EliteGren]

every cloaked unit can do that

no

[Baine]

ON A SIDE NOTE:  I have noticed that zappers are able to a territory even when cloaked. This is extremely OPowerfull on maps with large sectors!

Haven't seen that.

[Mysthalin]

QUESTION: The piats get the ambush bonus when cloaked in cover. Does the “garrison cover” they get when the halftracks count towards this?

Shows how little you know about the brits.
PIAT Ambush is a clickable ability that you can only click on when not moving and in cover - and the button goes away whenever you enter a halftrack, bren carrier, kangaroo or any other garrisonable entity.

[Sharpshooter824]

Gamesguy you seem to forget that stormtroopers are movable in cloak and PIAT sappers must find the perfect place to camo and then cloak, stormtroopers can use their cloak offensively to kill tanks at will

[Malevolence]

Storms cost 300 manpower and 280 munitions for dual shreks.   One volley from cloak does 240 damage to a sherman, out of 636 hp.

Piats cost 200 manpower and 100 munitions for a pair of piats.  One volley from cloak does 432 damage to unskirted P4s and 324 damage to skirted P4s, out of 600 hp.

I rest my case

Stormtroopers can cloak anywhere they want, anytime they want, while moving.

They bring cloaked AT to the enemy rather than vice versa.

[anthony210]

They also are very easy to suppress, if you keep your vehicles near your units its usually difficult for cloaked stormtroopers to be effective.  Killing unsupported tanks is where Stormtroopers shine.  Calliopes sitting alone at the spawn or somewhere on the map with no units near them are a prime target.  Also tanks rushing ahead of their support.  If the allies keep their tanks behind or with their support stormtroopers usually only get 1 volley off before they are suppressed and forced to retreat.

I do not know why we are arguing about stormtroopers effectiveness, this post is about PIAT ambush.  There is no comparison between a British basic unit with AT to Axis elite infantry with AT.  I have had PIAT squads devestate me before and I am not a newbie player.

PIATS in clown cars are really dangerous.  Perhaps not as much as a Stormtrooper squad behind enemy lines is but again theres no comparing an elite expensive unit to a basic unit with AT.  A better comparison would be a pioneer squad with schreks to a sapper piat squad.

A cooldown on all cloaking abilities when exiting a vehicle is fair IMO.

[Lemures]

Why not just a cooldown on all cloaking abilities period?

[Malevolence]

They also are very easy to suppress, if you keep your vehicles near your units its usually difficult for cloaked stormtroopers to be effective.

And PIAT sappers are different... how?

Killing unsupported tanks is where Stormtroopers shine.  Calliopes sitting alone at the spawn or somewhere on the map with no units near them are a prime target.  Also tanks rushing ahead of their support.  If the allies keep their tanks behind or with their support stormtroopers usually only get 1 volley off before they are suppressed and forced to retreat.

And how is this different from PIAT sappers, who are more fragile, more easily suppressed, and less easily able to escape suppression than stormtroopers?

I do not know why we are arguing about stormtroopers effectiveness, this post is about PIAT ambush.  There is no comparison between a British basic unit with AT to Axis elite infantry with AT.  I have had PIAT squads devestate me before and I am not a newbie player.

Because it's about a cloaking AT infantry unit. Stormtroopers are a cloaking AT infantry unit. It's a pretty easy parallel to make.

PIATS in clown cars are really dangerous.  Perhaps not as much as a Stormtrooper squad behind enemy lines is but again theres no comparing an elite expensive unit to a basic unit with AT.  A better comparison would be a pioneer squad with schreks to a sapper piat squad.

PIATs in a clown car cost 430 manpower, 100 munitions, and 30 fuel. A double schrek stormtrooper squad, as mentioned, costs 300 manpower and 280 munitions. The cost is close to comparable, and in my opinion the stormtrooper schreks are infinitely more dangerous than some clown car full of PIATs, even to tanks that are well supported (in fact, especially more to tanks that are well supported, as you can alpha strike the tank and cloak off into the night, whereas PIATs in a car you can see coming, and then blow up the car, drastically reducing their survivability).

A cooldown on all cloaking abilities when exiting a vehicle is fair IMO

Maybe even a cooldown on all abilities when existing a vehicle is even more fair. Prevents stickybomb clown cars, too.

[anthony210]

First, i would call a difference of 180 munitions quite a bit.  And if you add a clown car for those stormtroopers the difference is even more.

PIAT squads in bren carriers are not easy to suppress.  Why?  Because they are in bren carriers, you have to kill the carrier first.  And once you do they insta cloak behind the heavy cover of the wreck.

Would you be ok with allowing pioneer squads to purchase schreks and ride around in clown cars?  That would be a better comparison.

You cannot only look at the cloaking ability when comparing a sapper squad to a stormtrooper squads.  They are two differant units with the exception of being able to kill tanks.  If you really want to compare a stormtrooper squad to another squad,  I would compare them to Airborne recoiless.

Also you usually need 2 double schreck storm squads to alpha a sherman tank.  1 squad will not kill a tank.  In fact most of the time a single sherman will defeat a single double schrek squad.

A cooldown on all abilities when exiting is fair.  As long as the squad is atleast able to fire their weapons.

[tank130]

First, i would call a difference of 180 munitions quite a bit.  And if you add a clown car for those stormtroopers the difference is even more.

PIAT squads in bren carriers are not easy to suppress.  Why?  Because they are in bren carriers, you have to kill the carrier first.  And once you do they insta cloak behind the heavy cover of the wreck.

Would you be ok with allowing pioneer squads to purchase schreks and ride around in clown cars?  That would be a better comparison.

You cannot only look at the cloaking ability when comparing a sapper squad to a stormtrooper squads.  They are two differant units with the exception of being able to kill tanks.  If you really want to compare a stormtrooper squad to another squad,  I would compare them to Airborne recoiless.

Also you usually need 2 double schreck storm squads to alpha a sherman tank.  1 squad will not kill a tank.  In fact most of the time a single sherman will defeat a single double schrek squad.

A cooldown on all abilities when exiting is fair.  As long as the squad is atleast able to fire their weapons.

Airborne can not cloak, so there is no comparison to the completely ridiculous bullshit storms.
What elite at infantry would you like the Brits to use instead of the cheap sappers.
While stats say the piats are strong, you need to take into consideration their poor accuracy. Once again making them a poor unit, hence the price..
The only unit that should cloak in this game is a sniper. One solitary unit able to camouflage himself.
Cloaking tanks, squads, AT guns are all just bullshit that really only adds bitching to the game.
Get rid of it and the axis will bitch. Give more to the allied, the axis will bitch.
Does anybody else see a pattern here.

[LuAn]

The only unit that should cloak in this game is a sniper. One solitary unit able to camouflage himself.

I second that. (or maybe just remove moving and cloaking on all units but the sniper)

It would add more realism to the game, no more stealth units but the sniper.

[Malevolence]

First, i would call a difference of 180 munitions quite a bit.  And if you add a clown car for those stormtroopers the difference is even more.

I would call a difference of 50% more manpower and 30 fuel "a bit" just like I'd call slightly more than 50% more munitions "a bit".

PIAT squads in bren carriers are not easy to suppress.  Why?  Because they are in bren carriers, you have to kill the carrier first.  And once you do they insta cloak behind the heavy cover of the wreck.

PaK and a volk squad.

Would you be ok with allowing pioneer squads to purchase schreks and ride around in clown cars?  That would be a better comparison.

Pioneers are also much less expensive than Sappers and just as fragile. Plus a schrek is more expensive than PIATs. It would have all kinds of weird connotations. You'd have to let sappers buy flamethrowers and bunkers and shit and it'd be fine.

You cannot only look at the cloaking ability when comparing a sapper squad to a stormtrooper squads.  They are two differant units with the exception of being able to kill tanks.  If you really want to compare a stormtrooper squad to another squad,  I would compare them to Airborne recoiless.

Airborne recoilless do not do as much damage as stormtroopers with schreks, they cannot cloak (the only similarity being cloak and fireup lets you negate MGs, while cloak is immensely more strategically useful), et c. et c.

If you want to compare an AT unit with a cloak ability to another AT unit with a cloak ability, the only comparison would be storm schreks to piat sappers, as they are the only AT infantry units with cloak abilities.

Also you usually need 2 double schreck storm squads to alpha a sherman tank.  1 squad will not kill a tank.  In fact most of the time a single sherman will defeat a single double schrek squad.

Also you usually need 2 PIAT sapper squads to (attempt) to alpha a panzer tank. 1 squad will not kill a tank. In fact most of the time a single panzer will defeat a single piat sapper squad.

See wut I did thar?

A cooldown on all abilities when exiting is fair.  As long as the squad is atleast able to fire their weapons.

Would mean a stop to clown cars as we know it! Well, at least sort of.

[Blitzen]

Mal, so much fail in your post.  Lets see, you can't compare 2 piats to 2 shrecks to kill a main tank.  Why don't you compare the costs? See what I did there?  Next, a pak won't kill a bren.  It will get one shot, then be flanked.  Pak and volk squad what a joke.  The piats will most likely kill your volk squad, then kill the pak.  Brit players aren't retarded.

[LuAn]

A cooldown on all abilities when exiting is fair.  As long as the squad is atleast able to fire their weapons.

Would mean a stop to clown cars as we know it! Well, at least sort of.

I dont think that will change, since clown cars are supposed to be a mobile platform for piats and not a suicid-rush-then-piat-ambush-car.

@ Blitzen: Your post doesnt seem to make much sense to me. But 2 things ive noticed: one pak shot at a bc now takes away aprox 75% of a bc and its inside squad health. Units inside BC can currently be shot out by normal rifle fire(i think its not supposed to be that way?) Sappers very rarely win against volks.

[Baine]

Pak and volk squad what a joke.  The piats will most likely kill your volk squad, then kill the pak.  Brit players aren't retarded.

So true:
So how do the piats win against the pak and the volks.  Clown car comes, one shot from the pak, half of the men inside die, faust shot kills the bren carrier, piats go out and rape everything?
Volks will kick their asses even if they shoot with only one rifle.

[Malevolence]

Mal, so much fail in your post.  Lets see, you can't compare 2 piats to 2 shrecks to kill a main tank.  Why don't you compare the costs? See what I did there?  Next, a pak won't kill a bren.  It will get one shot, then be flanked.  Pak and volk squad what a joke.  The piats will most likely kill your volk squad, then kill the pak.  Brit players aren't retarded.

If you think that is true I don't need to even care about anything you say.

I mean, the stupid.

It just hurts so bad. In fact, it hurts so bad I have to leave this thread. And never, ever come back.

[VictorTarget]

Perhaps giving a short cooldown on all units that are dumped out of transports when they're destroyed, but permit them to jump out on their own safely without that taking effect?  It would allow you to have a mobile force, and encourage people to stop using BC's/IHT's as suicide boxes.