The MG42.

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[RubixCubed]

EIRR has been great for my three weeks of playing it but this problem is bugging me. MG42 just feels so underpar in this mod. Aside from what it does "surpress" troops its really not as great as the one in vanilla Company of Heroes. Well now before everyone says but wait! aren't they identical stats wise (or somewhat)?

The Problem: The counters to an MG42(mortar,vehicles,snipers) are fielded instantly. As in vcoh the early game counter to MG42 is only flanking. The problem is that MG42s are too often thrown away because keeping them alive is nearly impossible. It's bound to get mortared, rushed by clowncar, and attacked by some tank when you stick it in the building.

The MGs (of every faction) just seem underpar to this mod. You can only field a number of 6 mgs! Holycrap 6!!!! But your opponent can somehow field 20 riflemen! Now since stats wise they are simlar to vanila coh you should at least be able to field 10 Machine guns. In VCOH you have the standard 4 riflemen vs the volks-mg-volks-mg build order. That one is one of the most balanced battles. MG42 I believe is the core of the wehrmacht army and thus should be able to be assembled in larger numbers than 6 or recieve some range buff to stick with the scope of this game. When I say scope I mean largeness of the battles. I mean these battles are taking place over LONG distances. At guns and tanks in the 45-60 range and the mg 42 sits there at 45. Its like the tiger it just gets outranged and killed.

The MG is underpowered. I believe they should be use to support units instead of just sitting in a building the whole game begging to get blown to bits.

 

[gamesguy2]

Its also 3 pop compared to riflemen's 5 and you can't retreat and reinforce in this mod.

MGs are extremely good if anything.

[RubixCubed]

Its also 3 pop compared to riflemen's 5 and you can't retreat and reinforce in this mod.

MGs are extremely good if anything.

Exzactly! you can't retreat your mg. Presevation of the mg is "pack up".. and run back. In the process of time its screwed. How often do you see a well microed MG actually do damage in this mod without getting gayed by something else? It rarely happens. Make one error and you have AT guns sniping the thing, mortared, Shermaned, or any other unit that I can add -ed to emphasize my point.

[jackmccrack]

Only 6? Only?

[Smokaz]

At guns need to have their accuracy versus mgs reduced, right now 6 pounders and 57mms are sniping mgs and mortar teams like they were a hard counter.

[scrapking]

You need to play more to fully realize how broken this mod would be if either HMGs were more effective or you could have more of them.

And to elaborate on something you said with greater relevancy...  "Preservation" of an MG is more accurately simply recrewing it.  Which means if it is under fire, DO NOT move it, and often MGs are better off not being in buildings if there is any significant threat about.

You'll see.  

[jackmccrack]

Try these call ins -- [HMG and Sniper] or [HMG, Mortar, Bike] or [HMG and MP40 Volks]
-- The HMG is there to suppress while the other things do the killing.

[Blitzen]

Learn that in Eirr, mgs don't just sit in houses.  Move em around, push with em, fire a burst, then move.  Mobility is key.

[RubixCubed]

Insert Quote
Learn that in Eirr, mgs don't just sit in houses.  Move em around, push with em, fire a burst, then move.  Mobility is key.

Yeah i know that. My argument is that MGs are so useless outside of buildings because of all the counters availble.

And to elaborate on something you said with greater relevancy...  "Preservation" of an MG is more accurately simply recrewing it.  Which means if it is under fire, DO NOT move it, and often MGs are better off not being in buildings if there is any significant threat about.

If an MG42 is underfire from a flank you better as hell move it.

Try these call ins -- [HMG and Sniper] or [HMG, Mortar, Bike] or [HMG and MP40 Volks]
-- The HMG is there to suppress while the other things do the killing.

MY mgs come to support my guys. I don't stick them in buildings.

[jackmccrack]

Well the Axis combat mentality states that your men are there to support the HMG, not the other way around.

If you are having trouble becoming successful with the HMG maybe you should listen.

[scrapking]

Rubix, you are misunderstanding me about moving or not moving an HMG.  If you move it when its death is imminent, the MG itself will not be able to be recrewed  - so my point is, regarding its preservation - sometimes you are better off in the long run letting it die in place before packing it up and running.  That way it can be recrewed.  Depending on its health, and the situation, of course.

And seriously...  get more than 3 weeks under your belt, and perhaps more importantly - let go of vCoH-preconceived notions; before you make major criticisms regarding balance.  This isn't vCoH.  You'll be happier, and the community - and DEVs - will be happier with you.

[Tymathee]

IRL, hmg's would get "decrewed" all the time because they'd lob mortars, use snipers always constantly always try to take out that hmg cuz they could cover a huge area. So this is probably one of the few "realistic" things in coh.

[wildsolus]

this is the nature of eir...

when something is on the field that you need to counter, you bring out the counter for it. sometimes it takes only a couple minutes (like calling double jeeps to kill a sniper who just fired his first shot). mg42's are unlucky because they are great at what they do, but they are countered by so much shit that vetting them up is incredibly hard. mortars, snipers, clown cars, tanks, heroic brit blobs, fired up american noobs, offmaps, onmap arty the list goes on.

the most you can do is not put them in house so that when the crew does die or retreat, the gun is still there to recrew 

[brn4meplz]

Play PE for a week, then go back to Wehr. I can guarantee you you'll miss and respect what an HMG can do. ALot of people still have the mentality that an HMG is a defensive weapon. You know what happens when in a basic infantry firefight a HMG starts setting up? The same thing that happens when use a tank. Shit either moves and dies running away, or sits still and dies. All you gotta do i carry around 3 pop behind your force and set it up when you encounter problems. and the MG42 is much better suited for this role because of the Range discrepancy between it and it's Allied counterpart.

[Malevolence]

MG42 is a wonderful and necessary forward support unit. It is your mobile fall-back position. When the shit hits the fan, retreat a half-screen away to your MG42 base of fire and it's all warm and cozy by the fireside as your opponent can no longer super sticky bomb bar nade flamethrower rush you.

[spinn72]

MG42 is the second best (or maybe equal best) MG in the game alongside the brit MG.  It has crazy suppression and insta suppresses anything.  Even scarier about it is the amazing range it has which goes beyond its sight and also just into most enemies sight so most likely when your enemies see the MG42 its firing at them and therefore suppressing them.  In Buildings its range is increased even further too.

Use it with Axis OP mortars to kill infantry squads quickly and always try to use them in buildings.  MGs are purposely healthed so that even engineer squads can kill them when they're not set up.

Most of all, these are defensive weapons and should be a fall back point for infantry and tanks so that they dont have to be retreated.

[BradAnderson]

Lol you guys are hilarious, your trying to lecture one of the best wher players in vcoh! i'm sure Rubix understands the concept of the HMG a million times better than you idiots. The only thing he is asking for is more HMGS so the game is similar to Vcoh

[anthony210]

Is he one the best players in EiR?  Because the way EiR plays out and the way VCoH plays out are pretty differant.  I dont think anyone was lecturing, more so advising someone new to EIRR how to better use his limited HMG's in EIR.

[wildsolus]

being amazing at vcoh doesn't mean it'll translate over...obviously he's done quite well since he's only been here for a few weeks but like anthony said... if you play vcoh so much you have shit hardwired into your brain about what works and what doesn't and it doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in eir.

[jackmccrack]

Brad you don't even play this game anymore.

And good players never complain (no offense).