State of this mod....

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[Mgallun74]

ok, just a observation post..   first off want to thank all the Devs here that do so much free work to allow us no lifers have something to do, you guys do all this work for free.. so hats off to you.

We all obviously enjoy this game, its fun, eventhou i dont agree with stats of some units, this game by far has the best online, gameplay and with this mod best persistency of any game out there imho.

A few concerns or observations.

1.  Doctirines:  Yes they are cool, alot of good work, but are we going too far?  Some of these buffs i feel are just kinda crazy or too much.. some units get such good buffs that stack, it makes for giant blobs, be it allied or axis, happens on each side.. makes gameplay kinda crappy imho. 

2.  Offmaps:  Getting a bit out of hand, i have seen and heard people say they can get 8-10 a game, which is a obvious i win solution.. sure you have to pay pp, but if you have that many offmaps you can basically win a game on your own, say that last night in a game i was in, my teammate had a ton of offmaps, and each time the axis did a forceful attack, wham, off map and your done.. seen it done with axis too..

maybe tone down a bit of these buffs, it gets really crazy when you have tough as shit units that get major bonuses.. and tone down the amount of offmaps, last few days i have played i have seem more art crutches than ever.

* for bigdork -- i know i use art, but i only have 2 offmaps and 1 howi, the offmaps are slow and easily avoided, only work well on people who are not paying attention.. and well the howi can be countered really easily, especially with the amount of offmaps currently avail.

[salan]

you do realize point 2 counters point 1 right?

also going an off map route, while building a company, will mean no company progression, no vet, a lot less to hardly any passive buffs in their company.

right now ... you see end game companies without the progression, you can't say offmaps are OP in the end game, or that they are I win situations.

more often then not they just win the psychological war and people quit, but i guarantee you raid assault gets more kills per game then any offmap usage.

[BigDick]

we played a 3v3 today all 3 canadian artillery

we spamed the shit out of artillery with maxed out offmaps (5 earthshaker each = 15 mortar satuarations maxed out 3x4=12) and onmaps (everyone had 2x25pounder and two of us had a priest all with creeping barrage) captains with victortarget foo and leutnants with foo
we couldnt even manage to use all that stuff while playing almost only with some AT guns some bren tommies and onmap/offmap

but it was fun in some way 


probably it pws so hardcore now because everyone can have everything and pp go directly into SP cause there is nothing other to spend PP

(that will be not to common in a normal war)

[salan]

I made that note to EIRRMOD myself before we reset, that the fact people are gaining full pp without a growth sink will cause both availability and SP uses to spike in use.

of course this means that for the next tiny bit, we get to see how the system works if everyone reaches end game levels.   

[Aggamemnon]

Yeah, massive difference in actually building up an arty doctrine (with the sacrificed buffs and vet etc) and simply getting them maxed out.
There will always be people who will stack shit up if it's given to them, actually working towards and gaining it is a totally different experience and prospect.

[Two]

we played a 3v3 today all 3 canadian artillery

we spamed the shit out of artillery with maxed out offmaps (5 earthshaker each = 15 mortar satuarations maxed out 3x4=12) and onmaps (everyone had 2x25pounder and two of us had a priest all with creeping barrage) captains with victortarget foo and leutnants with foo
we couldnt even manage to use all that stuff while playing almost only with some AT guns some bren tommies and onmap/offmap

but it was fun in some way 


probably it pws so hardcore now because everyone can have everything and pp go directly into SP cause there is nothing other to spend PP

(that will be not to common in a normal war)

OMG thats what i do too, its funny all the arty

[Unkn0wn]

Now that a lot of the doctrine abilities are in we will be focussing on finetuning them and addressing a lot of these issues.

[SaintPauli]

I really appreciate the hard work that the devs have put into making this mod but I feel disheartened by the direction the mod has taken in terms of blobs and artillery. 

[DasNoob]

Suggestions to fix?

[LuAn]

Isnt there like a Negative Group-Zeal Bonus for Pioneers or so?

[Ununoctium]

add a radius 5 zeal like negative modifier a la pioneers to elite and standard inf

Artillery - well it has to pay for itself so if the arty T3 does as good as a perhsing or a tiger or KT (i know awful range here) then its fair. But thwn there is the micro arguement. I wish you could micro arty....

[SaintPauli]

Suggestions to fix?

For starters: Remove or drastically cut down the number of offmaps. Reduce availability of special troops (I hope the change in reinforcements will help a bit here).

I could do a full list if you really want me to.

[Two]

Suggestions to fix?

For starters: Remove or drastically cut down the number of offmaps. Reduce availability of special troops (I hope the change in reinforcements will help a bit here).

I could do a full list if you really want me to.

Because cutting down on the amount of offmaps given will make those certain t4's even more desirable then they already are.....

[LuAn]

Negative Group Zeal based on the amount of men in the radius? Starting at 6-9 or more men or so?
However command/utility squads should be excluded.

[DasNoob]

Suggestions to fix?

For starters: Remove or drastically cut down the number of offmaps. Reduce availability of special troops (I hope the change in reinforcements will help a bit here).

I could do a full list if you really want me to.

Sure put up a full list.

I hope it doesn't surprise anyone to know that the exact same thread concerning blobbing is up and being discussed in the dev forums too.  Now is the time to provide constructive solutions along with the constructive critiques

[Baine]

Accuracy debuff for the units, because "they can't shoot through their own buddies or aim that well"

Maybe with 4 or 5 and more units.

[BigDick]

add a radius 5 zeal like negative modifier a la pioneers to elite and standard inf

Artillery - well it has to pay for itself so if the arty T3 does as good as a perhsing or a tiger or KT (i know awful range here) then its fair. But thwn there is the micro arguement. I wish you could micro arty....

how about antigroup zeal for onmap artillery

e.g. every onmap artillery peace on the map raises the cooldown of each artillery
or if(distance(arty1,arty2)<=10) selfdestruct;

actually i was scared playing tanteville with 3x canadian artillery that there is not enough space left for all of our huge 25 pounder emplacements   

[salan]

make sure to add in there that if a side puts a heavy tank on the field the rest of their force gets a huge negative too. 

The effect of getting a offmap vs a heavy tank is something people always seem to forget. 

how many off maps get the same kill ratio as a tank?

really the offmap issue simply comes from the impunity of its use.  Tie them to spotters and you have a good work around and in game cost scheme.

[Raio]

Suggestions to fix?

For starters: Remove or drastically cut down the number of offmaps. Reduce availability of special troops (I hope the change in reinforcements will help a bit here).

I could do a full list if you really want me to.

   +1

[SaintPauli]

Once again I enter the paralympic sport of making suggestions on the internet…

Suggestions for anti blobbing:

• Reduce the availability of special troops.
• Remove group zeal.
• Remove get out of jail (suppression) abilities or give them an increased incoming accuracy penalty.
• Increase incremental accuracy on automatic weapons.
• If possible remove the ability to manually target enemies when more than one unit is selected*.
• Remove command units or edit the way they work**.

 

* The strength of the blob is the ability to target a single enemy with all units. Removing the ability to manually target enemies when more than one unit is selected will greatly decrease the power of the blob.

** Command units currently have a small aura that buffs infantry/tanks only. This leads to blobbing and goes against the usage of combined arms since you want to max out on the number of units benefitting from the buff. One idea would be to remove the command units. Another idea would be to change the way they work. Here is my suggestion:

All fractions get a commanding officer, a highly adaptable unit that can give different orders depending on the battlefield conditions. The orders work in a large radius (big enough to affect a large number or units. Small enough to avoid him sitting at the spawn point). The commanding officer can on the fly chose between 3-4 different orders/buffs. The available orders will be mixed to promote differentiation between fractions. In terms of effect the orders should be less powerful than the current auras. The strength of the orders should be in the adaptability. Examples of orders: Don’t read into the specific examples or numbers

Bunker down! - Unit builds at faster speed.
Charge! – Less suppression but greater incoming accuracy penalty
Duck and cover! – Big cover attacking penalty
Take cover! – Small cover bonus small attacking penalty
Supervise! – Orders a single unit for greater effect. 

The commanding officer is no Rambo and should not be able to pick up bazookas or LMGs. Command tanks should be fully operational battle stations tanks to avoid problems with pop. Difference in rank/veterancy could determine strength and number of available orders.