New Super Heavy Tank Request

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[LittleHillBilly]

You seem to forget the field repairs and onboard are the allies doctrine choices if they get them. The pershing and tiger are fine the only problem is the superheavies. As far as the repairs they are countered by HEAT rounds and German Steel very easily. So to talk about doctrines is not right. The main problem is the health of the JADG and KT and how they can counter all allies armor with such ease. That is why everyone in EIR is complaining and even the axis players are saying they are OP.

[Selmis]

jagh is vanilla based and like i said before is op with 4 buffs + vetrency bonuses so wtf u talking little billy? if peaple play pershings ofcourse tthy will take repairs or they are dumb. and if u are so anoyed against jagh kt complain it to coh creators so they should nerfed it. and ofcourse some axis say it's op but most peaple play both sides and half want them nerfed half not. and i suggest to make a poll about nerfing kt,tigers,jaghs , persh and stop spamming in forums. if they nerf kt and jaghs to limit it to 1 per cap ill just play tigers or perhsings and spam them unitll peaple start complaining about them 2.

[Aggamemnon]

Someone is forgetting in vanilla heavy tanks are capped 

[Wolster]

Well this Axis player isnt saying the Tiger is ever OP (dont use KT or Jagd so wont comment) id just be happy if the Tiger can destroy its cost in enemy units, which it consistently fails to do vs bloody RRs who must be a guarenteed win button on attrition cost to the enemy.

[Malevolence]

what kind of crack are you on lol?

Quiet.

I agree with Draken on this. The only feasible way to make a player second think buying two of the Supertanks is to make them cost more. Currently the cost of both the KT and Jadg are way too low looking at the hp's that they posess. They both need to be raised in accordance with the hp's that you have on the other tanks in the game. To put it simple the more health a tank has the more it should cost. Currently the Jadg  and KT have almost twice the health of any other tank so their cost should reflect closer to this.

And KT I know for certain costs almost infinity more pps than any other tank. 10 PPs for one is not cheap, nor is 30 PPs for 2.

By raising the cost then it would limit other units that the players are able to get. therefore if they want two of these beasts then they would not be able to have alot of supporting units for them and it would hurt them. At the current cost they can have one of the superheavies and still have almost the same ammount of supporting units as the players that dont have one. (inf, crew weapons ect) It is simple math based on the health of your units and forces you to judge if you want more units or less units but stronger. If you look at inf it is based almost the same way already. The inf with the greater health and strength usually costs more.

But it's been said time and again that using a heavy tank without support is a sure way to fail. If you are automatically given less support that is encouraging failure. It would be like buying airborne now limits the number of tanks you get...

I may be wrong but i dont think any player can argue. To put it simple if you could get stormies for the same cost or just a small amount more than volks you would get the stormies. The same is true for allies if airborne was the same as rifles or just slightly more then you would get more airborne.

This is actually the realistic case. Storms are only 60 manpower more than grens (25% more) for an additional ten HP each, cloak, and access to some wicked weaponry loadouts. They have no downside compared to grens, either.

Pershing costs a whole 125 manpower, 290 fuel, and 5 PPs more than a Sherman for an additional 300 hp (ish) and doubled armor protection/gun. Seems fair to me.


KT is literally more than twice as expensive as a Sherman or P4 in unit cost, then on top of that it is 10 PPs. And guess what? It has more than twice the HP, armor, and gun, too. Except it's also slow, unlike stormtroopers, which are just plain better at everything than grenadiers for their marginal cost increase comparatively.

Plus the fact that these are doctrine unlocks, something "normal" units don't cost, additional PPs and rank.

I won't say anything about the Jagd, it does indeed sound like at this point it's way too cheap, but the other heavy tanks are all more or less perfectly in line.

[acker]

You forgot to check out the rear shots, which tigers and kt's both tend to bounce but forget it on the jagd, you hit it in the rear armor, it wont bounce.

KT's are just big tigers, so they have the same armor and more health.

Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, the JagdPanther will have rear shots penetrate around 600% of the time, while the King Tiger will have rear shots penetrate around 198% of the time. The King Tiger has better armor from the rear, to be sure, but that better armor doesn't make any practical difference. Unlike, say, the frontal armor.

Both 198% and 600% are over 100%, and are sufficiently high enough to avoid the effects of veterancy/doctrine choices. Unlike the frontal armor...So yeah, the Jagd has tougher armor, unless COH does something screwy (which does happen).



Deflections from the rear for the KT are more likely from the doctrine choices like GS, which have been noted to cause strange results against the T4 AP rounds.

[Mysthalin]

Rear armor = frontal armor * rear armor multiplier, acker.

[Malevolence]

Rear armor = frontal armor * rear armor multiplier, acker.

Yeah, this. This is why the 2 modifier for a Tiger/KT's rear armor is so important, it's one of the only vehicles in the game able to consistently bounce midpowered shots from its rear armor.

Also Tym I believe that the KT's armor is the same as a Tiger with 20% less penetration as a standard bonus applied to the KT unit.

[Mysthalin]

KT and T definately use the same armor type. Not sure if KT has any extras, but I will check it out.

[sgMisten]

Just wondering, is a time-dependent dynamic PP scaling system possible?

E.g.
Your first heavy tank costs 5 PP to buy.

You lose it next game.

PP costs jumps up to 30 PP. If you're crazy or too rich (end game) you have to pay 30 PP to get it.

Every hour the PP costs drops by 1. Hence it takes 25 hours or about a day to get a new tank at the old PP cost, which is the minimum.

---

+ New / still growing companies get a chance to play with their shiny new toys without stunting their growth too much if they lose it.

+ Players with a lot of time to play and accumulate PPs now have a huge PP sink if they insist on using the heavy tank often.

+ Reduces the occurrence of heavy tank spam by 1 player to at most once a day once the heavy tank is killed.

Anyone know if this is possible? Because 1 flaw with the existing PP system is that new / less skilled players are severely punished for using their shiny new unlocks, which when they die slow down their company growth.

[Mysthalin]

It is possible, misten, but I don't believe it's too good of an idea. Punishing a person on top of him losing PPs and vet when he loses a tank should not be encouraged - stacking is already a problem.

[sgMisten]

It is possible, misten, but I don't believe it's too good of an idea. Punishing a person on top of him losing PPs and vet when he loses a tank should not be encouraged - stacking is already a problem.

It doesn't punish a player badly - only those who keep spamming a certain heavy unit within a short frame.

For new players it's a boon, they can get an unlocked unit for a cheap PP cost, and if they lose it, they just need to wait to buy it again for a cheap price, which hurts them less than currently. Imagine being rank 8 but needed 200 more PPs to complete your company, and you need to buy a 8-10 PP unit that if you lose every 2 games sets you back to 40 games total to finish the company. Instead you get to play with that unlock early on without too much slow down.

[Mysthalin]

New players, and even old players who don't know how to use a unit they just unlocked tend to lose them a lot until they learn how to use it effectivelly. It's a dent in their learning growth, rather than their company growth.