Shrek price

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[AmPM]

Armor Company

Defensive Company

Blitz Company!!

ZOMG!!

I play the majority of the time as axis, when I can get a game as them anyway.

[FailHammer]

The shreck is shit right now. If you dont believe it you are dumb. I used to play alot of axis,(PE with max tankbuster squads)  but I am armor now and shrecks fail. I run all m10/18s and t17s and quads. Shrecks are the best counter to this garbage but I just crushasize all the shrecks or stay at range and they miss 90% of the time. Even if they hit it is just one most of the time so the damage isnt that great. With the reload time they are lucky if they get another shot off before they gum up my treads. 140 is it? hah.

[AmPM]

Actually, Schreks are the counter to M18s and other tanks, the counter to the T17 is the PAK.

The only real issue is the T17 needs to be 90 or so FU. Everything else is ok for the most part.

[DasNoob]

The shreck is shit right now. If you dont believe it you are dumb. I used to play alot of axis,(PE with max tankbuster squads)  but I am armor now and shrecks fail. I run all m10/18s and t17s and quads. Shrecks are the best counter to this garbage but I just crushasize all the shrecks or stay at range and they miss 90% of the time. Even if they hit it is just one most of the time so the damage isnt that great. With the reload time they are lucky if they get another shot off before they gum up my treads. 140 is it? hah.

And 20 less MU make them magically hit those same targets again?  Hah.

[Dragon2008]

I don't get shreks any more. They r too dam inaccurate for there price. I had a situation where a T-17 was stood still repairing so I sent a gren squad with one shrek to kill it. Out of 3 shots from short range only 1 hit the stupid thing. 

 I mean it was stood still and I was like 10 meters away and the first shot hit the floor and the second flew wide of it. I had to bring a stug jus to finish it off. Either one of to things need fixing with the shrek right now.

Either the accuracy gets increased but the shrek stays the same price/ the shrek gets a price decrease with no change to accuracy.

As it stands id rather have a RR/PIAT/Zook than a shrek. What is the point of avin a high damage handheld AT when it can't hit the side of a barn door from 10 meters away. 

ATM I av more paks then shreks for 2 reasons:

1: Cheaper and rarely miss.
2: Worth the price and does more damage.

PS: I know the devs r trying to make the game as balanced as possible but at the moment its more sense to choose a pak or any other handheld over a shrek. If you can afford it you have to buy 2-4 and blob them together to actully hit something and make the target back off.

[tankspirit666]

The Balance issues in this mod are so annoying, so I stopped playing it.

[VERTIGGO]

The shreck is shit right now. If you dont believe it you are dumb. I used to play alot of axis,(PE with max tankbuster squads)  but I am armor now and shrecks fail. I run all m10/18s and t17s and quads. Shrecks are the best counter to this garbage but I just crushasize all the shrecks or stay at range and they miss 90% of the time. Even if they hit it is just one most of the time so the damage isnt that great. With the reload time they are lucky if they get another shot off before they gum up my treads. 140 is it? hah.

+1
Finally; thanks for an objective assessment from someone who knows how to play! It's definitely tough to counter the light vehicle spam.

Actually, Schreks are the counter to M18s and other tanks, the counter to the T17 is the PAK.

The only real issue is the T17 needs to be 90 or so FU. Everything else is ok for the most part.

That would be nice, but the counter to the speediest vehicles is never the immovable crewed weapon. PaKs are great, and can ambush, but the only units that can actually counter the T17s, Stags, and M8s are Panthers and Clown cars essentially. Nothing else is fast enough to get close without enemy mistakes. However, both of those have absolute shite for accuracy vs. them.

Think conversely. Sure 57mms are great for getting shots off, but no one charges them head on if they can help it. The counter to Pumas and ACs? RRs, stickies, bazookas, PIATs, T17s, Stags, M8s, etc. All of which, besides the RR phase problem, reduce the axis light vehicles to rubble without hardly a scratch to themselves.

The whole reason light vehicles can work is that it is a guerrilla tactic, and the only way to counter guerrilla tactics is with effective "guerrillas" of your own. That's pretty much the oldest lesson in military history.

Honestly, it's not necessarily the accuracy of or the other that makes the most difference, it's things like sandbags that just break the balance. For a paltry 50 mun, the speedy T17 can suck up 2 good schreck hits,  3 consecutive AT shots or 2 Vet3 panther shots and zip away to repair without any trouble. Mind you these are both nearly impossible anyway with the accuracy tables. I think Relic may have originally introduced this bit of malarchy, but it's a good example of the THC induced weirdness we have in some of our balance and counter-balances.

[Unkn0wn]

Again, important to note is that the received accuracy modifier all light vehicles get at vet 1 makes shreks even worse against light vehicles than they normally would be. This plays a major factor in the perception that shreks are generally unreliable to combat light vehicles with and once the vet list gets reworked this bonus will be swapped out for a received damage modifier.

In addition, it is possible that panzershreks receive a minor price decrease again in a future patch.
I think it's only fair however that the panzershrek's stiuation gets assessed again AFTER measures taken in next patch to reduce light vehicle spam and the general over-abundance of fuel based units in comparison to others.

[Blitzen]

As of late, I'm not having any problem with shrecks.  They are pretty decent where they are.  If they go up, we'll have a problem, if they go down, well then we can buy even more shit to rape with!

[Demon767]

using shreks is just old school now.

[Illegal_Carrot]

And 20 less MU make them magically hit those same targets again?  Hah.

Right now, Schrecks are no where near cost-effective
Before, at 120Mu, they were a bit overpriced, but you still saw them occasionally because they were better than PaKs in niche roles (mostly urban fighting), or spammed in clowncars.
Now, other forms of AT are more often taken; even though they may not be as good as Schrecks in certain situations, they are always more cost effective.
I don't care that the Schreck has some shitty stats (long reload + horrible long range), I (and most other Axis) care that we have to pay so much for a weapon with such downsides.
Only PIATs/RRs price should have been increased; Schrecks (and Zooks) should go back their previous prices.

Again, important to note is that the received accuracy modifier all light vehicles get at vet 1 makes shreks even worse against light vehicles than they normally would be. This plays a major factor in the perception that shreks are generally unreliable to combat light vehicles with and once the vet list gets reworked this bonus will be swapped out for a received damage modifier.

In addition, it is possible that panzershreks receive a minor price decrease again in a future patch.
I think it's only fair however that the panzershrek's stiuation gets assessed again AFTER measures taken in next patch to reduce light vehicle spam and the general over-abundance of fuel based units in comparison to others.

Because so many light vehicles have vet 1 (and it's so easy to get), it's not a perceived, but totally real unreliability.
I agree that we should wait and see how the new vet works out, but it's a problem that affects all vehicles, not just light ones.

I've played several games recently where Schrecks have done jack shit vs me. Even near the urban areas of Shindjel, my Shermans were easily able to kite/dodge/avoid/snipe massed Schrecks (3-4 at once). I don't remember exactly who was playing, but I remember that AmPM was one of the Axis.
I've played several other games where even in their prime (short-med range in urban areas), Schrecks weren't able to do anything against my armor (50mms and Marders were what game me the hardest time, though those were easily dealt with with an AB rush, heh).

[VERTIGGO]

Again, important to note is that the received accuracy modifier all light vehicles get at vet 1 makes shreks even worse against light vehicles than they normally would be. This plays a major factor in the perception that shreks are generally unreliable to combat light vehicles with and once the vet list gets reworked this bonus will be swapped out for a received damage modifier.

In addition, it is possible that panzershreks receive a minor price decrease again in a future patch.
I think it's only fair however that the panzershrek's stiuation gets assessed again AFTER measures taken in next patch to reduce light vehicle spam and the general over-abundance of fuel based units in comparison to others.

I respect your perspective in the sense that we should assess all angles before making changes, however this one has been imbalanced for a long time already. If the RR package is 180, and the PIAT package is 110, that's 1.44 * Relic prices. If the schreck costs anything more than 110, it is a blatant wehrmacht handicap. I also would like to point out, that no case has been made or evidenced, that the schreck has suddenly increased in "overpoweredness", so there is absolutely no legitimate excuse to charge more than 110.

Please EIRR team, return the schreck to its natural price. Don't let the balance be bullied by a loudmouth majority.

[VERTIGGO]

I would also like to remind everyone that the storm shreck is only more expensive because too many people complained about stealth attacks. All the while cloaked piats are cheaper than uncloakable piats. I understand the difference between moving in stealth and setting up in ambush, but storms don't get any ambush bonus. In fact, their ambush shots miss more often than they hit, and are usually a single use unit, while commandos can pop smoke and survive.\

Regardless, I'd like to know who thinks these increases were warranted:
Relic: schreck on grens is 75mun
Relic: schreck on storms is 75mun
EIRR: schreck on grens is 140mun
EIRR: schreck on storms is 160mun

while...
Relic: piats on sappers are 75mun
Relic: piats on commandos are 75mun
EIRR: piats on sappers are 120mun
EIRR: piats on commandos are 100mun and the T4 unlocks 3 for 140

The Wehrmacht prices increase exponentially, while the Commonwealth prices decrease with viability. The commando piats, which can cloak and recieve ambush bonuses and also has invisibility for escaping costs less than the sapper piats!

I think there is justification for a slight price overhead for superior platforms, but if we are making it up as we go, lets do it universally, not give one faction the shaft while handing out walmart discounts to another.

[AmPM]

Schreks work fine, I use them in my Defensive company all day.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I respect your perspective in the sense that we should assess all angles before making changes, however this one has been imbalanced for a long time already. If the RR package is 180, and the PIAT package is 110, that's 1.44 * Relic prices. If the schreck costs anything more than 110, it is a blatant wehrmacht handicap. I also would like to point out, that no case has been made or evidenced, that the schreck has suddenly increased in "overpoweredness", so there is absolutely no legitimate excuse to charge more than 110.

Please EIRR team, return the schreck to its natural price. Don't let the balance be bullied by a loudmouth majority.

The only reason PIATs are so cheap in vCoH is because Brits have no other AT at the time. With the inclusion of the 6pdr, the general cheapening of the 17lbr (though it's RE only), and most importantly the ability to call on any unit at any time (so you're not stuck with PIATs as your only AT for the beginning of the game, like in vCoH), PIATs really do need a general price increase, before you take the 'general EIRR price increase' into account.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Schreks work fine, I use them in my Defensive company all day.

While we all appreciate the insightful cometary of 'nuh-uh there good,' would you mind explaining a bit more?
While everyone stating their case has provided comparisons, examples, stats, strategies/tactics, etc, you just seem to post 'I use them and they're good.'
I really am interested in how you use them effectively, because you're a skilled player who know what their doing, and because noone else can seem to figure how to make Schrecks work, but if you want your opinion to carry any weight, you going to have to back it up.

[Killer344]

Don't use them against light vehicles, don't get kited by medium tanks, use cover if you use them offensively, and try to not get shot by pershings or crocos, done.

[VERTIGGO]

The only reason PIATs are so cheap in vCoH is because Brits have no other AT at the time. With the inclusion of the 6pdr, the general cheapening of the 17lbr (though it's RE only), and most importantly the ability to call on any unit at any time (so you're not stuck with PIATs as your only AT for the beginning of the game, like in vCoH), PIATs really do need a general price increase, before you take the 'general EIRR price increase' into account.

I agree... That wasn't my point, my point was that PIATs are not cheaper in vCoH. Compared to the schreck, they had a price reduction, and price just gets lower as the platform gets better, whereas the schreck costs more on better platforms.

When HHAT sees a price increase, it needs to be 1.44 * whatever, not "oh lets make piats this, and shrecks that."

[Killer344]

Stop basing your arguments on vCoH, because, this is not vCoH.

[VERTIGGO]

Schreks work fine, I use them in my Defensive company all day.

I've never said that shrecks need a special bonus. My entire argument is that they are not magic like some have claimed, and they should see the same Relic-EIRR price transition that all other HHAT weapons see. I.E., 2 sapper piats and 1 gren shreck cost the same thing. Other tweaks, like giving three piats to one cloaked squad, can get special treatment because they are extremely reliable and arguably more gimmicky than storms.