007 Availability - Tweak #1

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[Tymathee]

it's obvious its necessary if you're losing to it.  The fact is, both sides field a lot of vehicles and the allives have learned how to defeat a lot of axis builds now, it'll turn the other way eventually but for now it seems thea llies have the upperhand i guess. I really don't know what to say, the fact is both sides have counters but light vehicles i think have the biggest advantage becase of at accuracy.

Wehr's best solution is upgunned puma's, they do really good vs light vehicles and for PE, the IST does really well vs light vehicles as does the way underused uhh, damn if orget its name lol but because of its rapid fire gun, it does really well vs vehicles and as it vets gets a real good accuracy boost.

[EIRRMod]

I think I need to not play this mod for a while, I'm becoming to disgruntled.

Took another loss to light vehicle/tank destroyer spam backed by 57mms, feeling the same way. Had 4 light vehicle kills and 4 tank kills on my panther, still wasnt enough to help my 2nd panther get ahead enough for it to not be killed by t17s and m18s attacking me. They sure have succeeded in making the armor spam of the allies realistic, but the cost to my enjoyment of the mod has been great.

Right now the light vehicle armor spam is really annoying to fight as wehr as all your AT is so pricey and vulnerable to light vehicles, while your heavy armor can't really fight m18s and m10s cost-effectively especially if they have stuff like AP rounds or flank speed.

Sure I can gear my company towards defeating all this kind of crap, but I dont see allies completely rewiring all their AI and AT options because of specific allied doctrines or builds. If Im gonna defeat this combination without outplaying my opponent badly, I need to field a unneccessary amount of AT as wehr.

So, you feel the Vehicle pool of the allies is too high?
I was thinking of lowering it(vehicle), increasing another of their pools.

No company build should be able to overwhelm another company without severe weaknesses in others - what youre describing sounds like it isnt happening =/

[AmPM]

Its not vehicles, its the light vehicles that do it. You don't need to use Tank Destroyers, you can just use ATG spam supported by light vehicles.

Lower the number of light vehicles in non-Armor companies, lower the support pool in Armor companies. Raise the Armor pool in armor companies but not the light vehicles. Raise infantry on AB, raise Support on Infantry.

[Tymathee]

i'd be all for raising infantry's support if we got m ore than one thing that helped support weapons and that's L&L. If anything, airborne get stronger support weapons when they get that AB support T3 and then any t4rl.

[Tymathee]

and i guess you can include TR cuz of the atgs butg thats it. Everything else benefits rifles.

[Smokaz]

I base this on what I have seen ingame as wehr in lot of games now, and its those freaking quads, t17s and m18s just being spammed the hell out of with mindless zombie use of rifles just being sucided to help outattrition the axis infantry based AT.

There's no weaknesses to this as long as you have any kind of armor left that can defeat infantry without at. Even if it takes several minutes for a m18 to kill of 2-3 defenseless volks, it will happen and that retarded ass 1 man mine detector engineer squad hiding in the corner of the map can cap and secure victory.

The new availability system still needs more work before we can put an end to the super spam, my attempt at getting stupid amounts of storms (which sadly sucked) and the freaking mainstream blob of light vehicles backed by atgs

[Smokaz]

....makes me unsure of its current implementation.

[EIRRMod]

....makes me unsure of its current implementation.

Well, Im all ears Smokaz.

AmPm suggested something - how bout you too?

[Smokaz]

I kinda think vehicle and armor pool should be the same, albeit a bit bigger and that pool cost of all light vehicles should go up 1 point each.

[Smokaz]

I also think at guns should go up 1 point.

[Smokaz]

I also think AMPMs suggestions for infantry and airborne are good calls. You go way too fast into reserve in infantry and airborne just by fielding the units your doctrine is supposed to be all about.

Theres a design decision to be taken - right now the armor doctrine could easily swing both ways as it buffs both light vehicles and armor. But I think it would be better for balance if it emphasized strengthening american armor like m18, m10, pershing and sherman over t17, m8, quad. These vehicles already are immensily useful compared to their wehrmacht counterparts (because of what I call the principle of anus pounding wehr infantry support with light vehicles), while the basic american armor is comparably worse off like the wehr light vehicles.

[CrazyWR]

I'm gonna go watch the replay before I post Smokaz, but using nothing but storms and panthers for AT and vanilla storms with bundles is a failbuild...sorry, I was off, you also had 1 MG, 1 ostwind, and some vanilla grens and assault nade volks.  What the hell do you expect?  Using infantry based AT vs light vehicles fails.  Try getting some freaking paks.

You're complaining that your gimmick company isn't defeating a normal armor company build.  What do you expect from 2x Armor company players?  Are we supposed to spam vanilla rifles?  Our doctrine is based around vehicles and tanks, so we use as many of them as we can.  Its already the weakest of the American doctrines...all it takes is 3 pieces of AT together on the field to stop it cold.  For some reason you never felt like putting that much AT out.  You knew within 2 minutes of the start that it was double armor spam, and still never had enough AT on the field...

[CrazyWR]

3 pieces of AT per armor company player.  Sorry for not specifying above.  They aren't going to have the infantry to overrun you.

[Smokaz]

Im not complaining about that game, the stuff you guys were doing is what i've seen in the majority of my games and thats where I am voicing my concern from. As for my build I had 2 panthers (basically all my fuel in AT) and triple double shreked storms, so your point about me using too much infantry based at falls on its own lack of credibility. Please dont make it out like I lose a game and then come here crying my eyes out on the forum before more people than yourself have commented on the issues I am trying to draw a picture of.

[CrazyWR]

Using infantry based AT fails against light vehicles.  You know that.  So storms are useless against them.  Panthers can't hit light vehicles all the well either.  Paks are the answer, but for some reason you refuse to use them.  Also, volks with fausts are cheap and definitely will shut down light vehicle spam.  2 fausts and 1 pak hit and the vehicle is in deep trouble.

[Falcon333]

Using infantry based AT fails against light vehicles.  You know that.  So storms are useless against them.  Panthers can't hit light vehicles all the well either.  Paks are the answer, but for some reason you refuse to use them.  Also, volks with fausts are cheap and definitely will shut down light vehicle spam.  2 fausts and 1 pak hit and the vehicle is in deep trouble.

Contradiction?

[CrazyWR]

Ya, I meant shreks.  My bad.  I was gonna edit, but I can't edit in a stickied thread I guess.  Fausts are guaranteed to hit, so they're a different situation.  Anyways, he had no fausts.

[EIRRMod]

Well, the way I see it, the system is too lenient in some ways, and too strict in others.

Parts to tweak (that we can I mean)
Individual pools
Reserve pools
Unit pool costs.

Atm, I think the issue is the low pool costs, OR the high reserve pool.

[Unkn0wn]

Don't forget the perception of 'light vehicle spam' can also stem from:
- Too much fuel units in comparison to other resources and units fielded
- Vet 1 light vehicle bonuses granting received accuracy 0.8 making infantry based AT a terrible counter

[Malevolence]

Don't forget the perception of 'light vehicle spam' can also stem from:
- Too much fuel units in comparison to other resources and units fielded

Increase manpower! :/