T1700 series

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[Warlight]

It does work It happened to my team mate last night. LVS is a pain in the ass at the moment.

now you know how allies feel about 3 puma starts and 2 p4 with blitzkrieg T1 of gayness.

Theres a Start, and then theres a whole game.  People can still win after a bad start. 

A stag hound catcing you at the wrong angle can easily kill two marders, with the epicness of marder pathing and all. 

t17s can kite any infanty based at better than just about anything and, it only akes one AT gun covering to make at an epic pain in the ass to try and counter.

And if they have enough t17s to throw a couple a away then its darn near unstopable.

[Tymathee]

i think the stun cool down really changed how light vehicle spam works....i know i'm gonna get a lot of flak about this but uh, maybe get rid of the cooldown and change it to uses?

[TheWindCriesMary]

i think the stun cool down really changed how light vehicle spam works....i know i'm gonna get a lot of flak about this but uh, maybe get rid of the cooldown and change it to uses?

 I like this idea. 

-Wind

[Mysthalin]

i think the stun cool down really changed how light vehicle spam works....i know i'm gonna get a lot of flak about this but uh, maybe get rid of the cooldown and change it to uses?

It's not so much the fact stun is now on cooldown, it's the fact you can get 9 T17s while paying just 1 PP for it, whereas previously you could only get 2 T17s, and later on, 3 T17s without paying PPs. You had to use a mix of greyhounds, T17s, and quads to use up the same ammount of fuel - and it is just much more attractive to buy a T17 than it is to buy a quad. No, not due to their disrepancy in effectivenes to cost ratio, but due to human nature. The Quad costs a base munitions cost, the T17 costs none - it just SEEMS cheaper to buy the T17.
Though, I guess effectiveness, in this case - versatility has something to do with it. T17s can take on light vehicles, whereas quads are dedicated anti-infantry units...

Ah well, yeah, it's the trippling in light vehicles of the same kind you can buy, not the stun round being OP. Though, I personaly have suggested the stun round to go up in price once it's given a cooldown, not get a price decrease - 90 munitions for it seems like a good start.

[Smokaz]

The most funny part of this replay is when 40 pop of t17s beat up a panther.

I think t17's are better than the quad because they can engage light vehicles reasonably well.

[Mysthalin]

5 T17s beating a panther? With stun being used on all of them, that's around 50 seconds of the panther being stunned, meaning roughly 20 rounds from each T17... I doubt that would be enough to beat the panther :S. Was there any other AT supporting the T17s?

[Smokaz]

Deflection damage ftw, its like little fireworks exploding all around uncle panther

[Ununoctium]

Deflection damage ftw, its like little fireworks exploding all around uncle panther

firecracker mine T17's ftw.

[Mysthalin]

Deflection damage ftw, its like little fireworks exploding all around uncle panther

With deflection damage that's a total of... 375 damage in 100 shots, if the pantehr was not equiped with skirts.
If it was, the damage goes down to 300.

[Smokaz]

Watch the replay, the t17 blob was wearing the panther down fast

[Mysthalin]

I honestly doubt you had nothing helping the little bugger T17s .

[Smokaz]

Show me two nondoctrinal p4s taking out a pershing

[Mysthalin]

How? Noone buys pershings, and I'm roughly 4-5 days away from getting one myself(and I don't see any reason for myself to charge a pershing into a death sentence).

[Ununoctium]

Show me two nondoctrinal p4s taking out a pershing

Show me two nondoctrinal p4s taking out a non-doctrine-buffed pershing

1. T17's 10% life buff does give it one more hit to live quite a bit.
2. Blitzkrieg T1.. ooh yay dead pershing.


i still think Pershing sucks even with its doctrine buffs. Its honestly best used like a big chickencannon behind your army for hit and run. at least axis heavies can take a beating. and ALL have longer range (who doesn't get improved barrels if not for conviction which also buffs the tiger more)

[Smokaz]

i think the stun cool down really changed how light vehicle spam works....i know i'm gonna get a lot of flak about this but uh, maybe get rid of the cooldown and change it to uses?

It's not so much the fact stun is now on cooldown, it's the fact you can get 9 T17s while paying just 1 PP for it, whereas previously you could only get 2 T17s, and later on, 3 T17s without paying PPs. You had to use a mix of greyhounds, T17s, and quads to use up the same ammount of fuel - and it is just much more attractive to buy a T17 than it is to buy a quad. No, not due to their disrepancy in effectivenes to cost ratio, but due to human nature. The Quad costs a base munitions cost, the T17 costs none - it just SEEMS cheaper to buy the T17.
Though, I guess effectiveness, in this case - versatility has something to do with it. T17s can take on light vehicles, whereas quads are dedicated anti-infantry units...

Ah well, yeah, it's the trippling in light vehicles of the same kind you can buy, not the stun round being OP. Though, I personaly have suggested the stun round to go up in price once it's given a cooldown, not get a price decrease - 90 munitions for it seems like a good start.

It doesn't "seem" cheaper to grab t17s over quads or m8s. It IS cheaper munitions-wise as well. In terms of fighting the light vehicles the t17 actually can penetrate regularly, you dont really NEED stun. You don't NEED the m8 mine either for fighting infantry or vehicles.

However you do need the 50 cal (frail as it is) and the skirts for the m8 /t17to perform its AI business, and having repair on the unit basically increases the amount of health protection you get from skirts on both units so its a no-brainer that you get repair on both unit types.

In terms of fighting light vehicles and infantry, you dish out 125 munitions for the m8 (more than you dish out for a 50 cal/repair sherman, same amount as a quad) and only 85 munitions for a t17.

If you're planning on spamming a light vehicle, and you are sitting in your batalion screen trying to choose between 10 m8s/quads or 10 t17s you save 400 munitions on picking the t17. Do you lose out in terms of anti infantry by picking 10 t17s?

Hell no, unless someone is arguing that the M8 is better at fighting inf than the t17. If there is such a difference, it is marginal at best. The supression on the m8 50 cal is exellent - if you get into short range, that is where both vehicles lose most of their dodge and you probably end up being closer to supporting AT as well. Same for quad.

The lower munitions cost of the t17 is not a "psychological" happening that players go through while listening to relaxing dolphin sounds in their company screen. Its a pure fact.

[Ununoctium]

from ingame

"CAN YO NOT FUCKING T17 SPAM?"
"WHAT ELSE AM I SUPPOSED TO DO IM ARMOUR!"

I was tempted to ask "and did you pick armour BEFORE you knew about T17 spam?"

When people use the doctrine as an excuse its just lame. Can someone just nerf this unit to hell and give armour doc some REAL OP shit from tankhunters?

[CrazyWR]

Thats actually not how it went.  I'll post the conversation for you.

00:10:09 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: gayyy
00:11:38 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: 35% more health?
00:11:41 [All] o4b: no
00:11:43 [All] o4b: vet2
00:11:46 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: ..
00:11:55 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: am i the only noble armour player?
00:11:59 [All] CrazyWR: ?
00:12:01 [All] o4b: how am i not noble
00:12:01 [All] o4b: wow
00:12:02 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: that doesnt gay vehiclespam?
00:12:07 [All] o4b: WHAT SHOULD I DO
00:12:08 [All] CrazyWR: um, what do you use?
00:12:09 [All] o4b: IM ARMOR
00:12:12 [All] o4b: ARE YOU STUPID
00:12:13 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: SO AM I
00:12:20 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i deal wiht it
00:12:38 [All] o4b: ...
00:12:56 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i am the onyl other pershing player in this mod
00:13:01 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i knwo what i talking about
00:13:03 [All] CrazyWR: so
00:13:06 [All] o4b: uh lol?
00:13:07 [All] CrazyWR: besides your pershing
00:13:09 [All] o4b: pershings?
00:13:10 [All] CrazyWR: what do you spend your fuel on?
00:13:14 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: paershings fail
00:13:19 [All] o4b: THEN WHY USE THEM
00:13:32 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: PLAY NORMAL
00:13:35 [All] o4b: normal?
00:13:39 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: USE MODERATE T17 amounts
00:13:40 [All] o4b: whats your def of normal
00:13:41 [All] CrazyWR: please define normal
00:13:43 [All] o4b: I have 3
00:13:45 [All] CrazyWR: I only have 4 t17s
00:13:47 [All] o4b: tell me that isnt normal
00:13:48 [All] o4b: omfg
00:13:55 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: 3 only and no sutn rounds
00:13:58 [All] o4b: its ppl like you that are retarded about htis light vehicle "spam"
00:14:05 [All] CrazyWR: without stuns, i'd rather have an m8
00:14:10 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: its spam cuz that thing is so mulitpurpose
00:14:19 [All] o4b: ok
00:14:24 [All] o4b: that makes such little sense
00:14:29 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: it kill almost al axis targets and helps kill the armour
00:14:29 [All] CrazyWR: I fail to see how the t17 does shit to vehicles without stun
00:14:29 [All] o4b: the def of spam is a shitload
00:14:35 [All] CrazyWR: t17s cant kill armor
00:14:37 [All] CrazyWR: at all
00:14:37 [All] o4b: ALMOST ALL AXIS TARGETS?
00:14:41 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: id liek to see a puma get stun then

[CrazyWR]

Smokaz, t17s can penetrate PE vehicles, yes, but against Wehr, anything bigger than a halftrack it fails almost all the time.  M8's can penetrate, but not t17s.

[Ununoctium]

Thats actually not how it went.  I'll post the conversation for you.

00:10:09 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: gayyy
00:11:38 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: 35% more health?
00:11:41 [All] o4b: no
00:11:43 [All] o4b: vet2
00:11:46 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: ..
00:11:55 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: am i the only noble armour player?
00:11:59 [All] CrazyWR: ?
00:12:01 [All] o4b: how am i not noble
00:12:01 [All] o4b: wow
00:12:02 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: that doesnt gay vehiclespam?
00:12:07 [All] o4b: WHAT SHOULD I DO
00:12:08 [All] CrazyWR: um, what do you use?
00:12:09 [All] o4b: IM ARMOR
00:12:12 [All] o4b: ARE YOU STUPID
00:12:13 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: SO AM I
00:12:20 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i deal wiht it
00:12:38 [All] o4b: ...
00:12:56 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i am the onyl other pershing player in this mod
00:13:01 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: i knwo what i talking about
00:13:03 [All] CrazyWR: so
00:13:06 [All] o4b: uh lol?
00:13:07 [All] CrazyWR: besides your pershing
00:13:09 [All] o4b: pershings?
00:13:10 [All] CrazyWR: what do you spend your fuel on?
00:13:14 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: paershings fail
00:13:19 [All] o4b: THEN WHY USE THEM
00:13:32 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: PLAY NORMAL
00:13:35 [All] o4b: normal?
00:13:39 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: USE MODERATE T17 amounts
00:13:40 [All] o4b: whats your def of normal
00:13:41 [All] CrazyWR: please define normal
00:13:43 [All] o4b: I have 3
00:13:45 [All] CrazyWR: I only have 4 t17s
00:13:47 [All] o4b: tell me that isnt normal
00:13:48 [All] o4b: omfg
00:13:55 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: 3 only and no sutn rounds
00:13:58 [All] o4b: its ppl like you that are retarded about htis light vehicle "spam"
00:14:05 [All] CrazyWR: without stuns, i'd rather have an m8
00:14:10 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: its spam cuz that thing is so mulitpurpose
00:14:19 [All] o4b: ok
00:14:24 [All] o4b: that makes such little sense
00:14:29 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: it kill almost al axis targets and helps kill the armour
00:14:29 [All] CrazyWR: I fail to see how the t17 does shit to vehicles without stun
00:14:29 [All] o4b: the def of spam is a shitload
00:14:35 [All] CrazyWR: t17s cant kill armor
00:14:37 [All] CrazyWR: at all
00:14:37 [All] o4b: ALMOST ALL AXIS TARGETS?
00:14:41 [All] SmurfYouNoneCocktium: id liek to see a puma get stun then

and during that time 1 T17 stun resulted in 3 dead P4s because it removes the firing and movement
then another stun killed a panther.

[Killer344]

Stun doesn't kill.