PE - Light AT HT

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[CafeMilani]

this vehicle seems a bit useless without its upgrades, mainly allied light vehicles have many HPs.
in vcoh t17s use to have 175 hp which makes them easier to kill for light at hts
in eir t17s are usually upgraded with sandbags which give them additional 175hp which makes it impossible to deal with them with light at hts.

so i suggest a penetration and/or damage increase for it that it can deal a bit damage to shermans too. and to t17s (usually the t17 can dodge its shots, i dunno why)

[spinn72]

the Light AT HT is like most Halftracks in PE, they're upgraded only.

Personally right now i think they're amazing units for 3 pop only.  Yes they are called Light AT HTs but its barely what they do (except for jeeps and bren carriers maybe).

The focused fire will destroy entire squads, even in cover.  The treadbreaker will force almost any allied tank to repair, and both of these come with timers.

If it was made better against light tanks i'd probably consider putting this up to 4 pop.  It should have better damage overall i think, the damage it does is nothing even though it can penetrate M10s/Hellcats.

[BaleWolf]

I don't know how many times I've killed shermans with my LATHT and I can usually vet them up in a game if I pay enough attention to them, they just never make it off the board. But yes focus fire will murder off a squad quite quickly.

[Killer344]

LAHTs can't penetrate shermans dude... they just can't, they only penetrate effectively with the TB ability.

[CafeMilani]

its actually completely worthless without upgrades. (except a jeep, YAY)
and usually ppl use it only vs infantry

[Tymathee]

the laht is a must in any pe company except tank hunters. Treadbreaker is an awesome ability, i've stopped using focus fire tbh, cuz i'd rather not put my laht in the line of fire that long and risk losing it's TB ability.

[CafeMilani]

you idiot, im talking about the unit itself, not its upgrades.

[RikiRude]

it is pretty much useless without it's upgrades, but hey, so is an m8 for the most part.

[CafeMilani]

but hey, a m8 isnt meant to fight light vehicles

[Tymathee]

but hey, a m8 isnt meant to fight light vehicles

Yes it is. It's the allied counter to the puma, until the puma gets the 50mm upgun

the m8 is real good vs all pe vehicles, especially the AC. the m8 is also good vs the hummel when you get behind it (it gets a damage multiplier) it rapes marders if it gets behind it. It's meant to take out light armor.

[AmPM]

Tym...a T17 does all that but better, the M8 provides suppression and mines. If you don't want those, get the T17.

[Tymathee]

it is pretty much useless without it's upgrades, but hey, so is an m8 for the most part.

m8 gun does a lot of damage without its upgrades. but yea the laht w/o upgrades totally rapes.

you idiot, im talking about the unit itself, not its upgrades.

and dont call me an idiot, i cloudless sworn at least 3-4 other posters commented on the laht, why would you come after me? Chill out already.

[Tymathee]

Tym...a T17 does all that but better, the M8 provides suppression and mines. If you don't want those, get the T17.

I agree. The T-17 = Rapid fire m8 w/o .50 cal and mines basically. The thing is, t17 is only for armor co. I love m8's tbh, i usually use them vs infantry of course but they can fight off vehicles if you need be and are good at circle stafing. Back in the old eir with my armor company i'd run 2 callies and all m8's and quads and i'd take on tanks with my m8's. My at was basically m8's and at guns, oh and mines.

[Mysthalin]

Honestly, the LATHT is a considerable piece of fail, without the upgrades, and it's just taking up 3 popcap while it's recharging it's treadbreaker shot. A 2x damage and 1.25x accuracy multiplier when shooting at light vehicles(except, possibly, the stuart) would be a very welcome buff to the PE army, and could possibly offer PE players a better reason in buying the LATHT over the 50 mm counterpart(especially in the current incarnation of LVS that most people are so annoyed by).

The treadbreaker itself is a very nice ability, and noone argues that - so is the focus fire, which was even my number-one counter to PIAT blobs when they were rampart, but the fact it can't do anything(not even kill jeeps - it misses them too often) effectively without the abilities is a pretty huge detriment towards fielding this unit. Do not forget that it is a pretty expensive unit, and the treadbreaker + focus fire combo alone sets you back for 135 munitions. At that point - just buying an IHT with a shrek is the more reasonable choise.

I would not suggest upping it's damage against the heavier units, like the sherman, cromwell, or even the M10, as it would just become a shorter-ranged version of the 50mm ATHT, which is not something that the game needs right now.

My 2 cents on the LATHT.

On the subject of T17 vs M8, I would say that the T17 is a useful, but not a reliable counter to vehicles. It's deflected-shot damage is almost non-existant, whereas it bounces very extensively versus even rear armour of pumas, stone walls, and I'm pretty sure I saw it bounce off a wooden cart once. It's damage when it penetrates medium or heavy armour is less than negligible, and it is only it's stun shot that allows it to fullfill it's role as supporting AT - but solely SUPPORTING, not mainline, AT.

The M8 is much better at taking out tanks and vehicles, in this case. Sure, it's lower rate of fire does not allow for so much missed shots, but if the M8 hits, it penetrates any light vehicle out there, which can not be said about the T17. The M8 penetrates P4s and above rather reliably enough, particularly from rear armour. It can not take on a P4 from the front - there is no chance of that happening, but it has good speed, and with a bit of micro and luck, it can get to said rear armour, and start unloading at the P4s health bar. Which, yet again, can not be said about the T17s proficiency against P4 rear armour.

The T17, however, is severely more effective against infantry. It's main gun fires obscenely fast, and even if it doesn't snipe infantry with each shot(most targets, including PanzerGrens take 2 shots to die), it is accurate and reliable enough to kill the infantry - particularly good at house-clearing. The greyhounds gun, due to the lower ROF can not compare in Anti-Inf based activities, even if it is equiped with a .50 cal. The .50 cal, even though it is a powerful upgrade, still does not give the greyhound the anti-infantry power of the T17, not to mention that it is severely unreliable. Even small arms fire can kill the gunner within the first few seconds of combat, and if a greyhound falls into yellow health, the gunner is pretty much doomed - and then you need to use a repair kit to get him back.

I would say that the T17 is better suited in a AT-gun protecting role, whereas the greyhound is much better at a raider/harraser role. The T17s slightly higher health allows it to take an extra shot that the ATG crew would of taken, the gun is much better when used as a kiting tool vs infantry, and the stun shot is perfect to disable a tank in front of the said AT gun, whereas the M8 gun's versatility allows it to take on multiple targets(even if not win against them), the mines allow for an exceedingly disruptive role behind enemy lines, and the MG can help suppress an enemy squad or two so your infantry can advance after you flank the enemy with the greyhound.

[AmPM]

Yea, the 37mm ATHT could use some love.

T17 vs M8; Other than range modifiers their penetration is about the same vs all targets.

T17 vs P4 = .42
M8 vs P4 = .42

T17 vs Panther = .14
M8 vs Panther = .14

Identical pen vs Tiger as well, .173

The T17 gets BETTER Rear Penetration modifiers though.

[RikiRude]

omg myth, ive seen a T17 bounce off of a wooden cart as well! hahah.

[Tymathee]

Yea, i was wondering where you got hat the m8 was better than the t17 vs tanks.  They have the same exact gun the t17 just shoots faster.

[Mysthalin]

I am sorry to burst your bubble, amPM and Tym, but that is not true.

According to the RGDs :

T17 vs P4 - 0.2
Rear pen - 2.42
M8 vs P4 - 0.42
Rear pen - 5.92

T17 vs Panther - 0.1
Rear pen - 1.07
M8 vs Panther - 0.14
Rear pen - 6.07

So the T17 is definately not equal vs either the panther or the P4, and it has significantly WORSE rear penetration modifiers.
It is also noteworthy the T17 has 0.5 damage against P4 and Panther, with 0.4 vs skirted P4 and Panther.

Penetration By range :

\\\\\\\\\\   T17   M8
Long         0.4  0.66
Medium      0.6   0.83
Short         1       1

Accuracy By range :
\\\\\\\\\    T17   M8
Long        0.45   0.75
Medium     0.65     1
Short        0.95    1

So the gun is definately not the exact same.