EIRR Balance

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[Eyeseeyou]

hmm, yeah cromwell and piats should really be fixed. the other ones are not game-breaking. Maybe i haven't played enough but i can't find that many axis units that needs modifying.

[Mysthalin]

Yay, moar axis bias.

You, sir, have no idea what you're talking about. Go play some allies(please brits RCA, above all, with PIAT spam(10 percent more accuracy T1)) and see how it goes for you, alright?

But nah, you'll fail horribly then post as if you're owning without remorse just so you don't contradict yourself.

[Eyeseeyou]

As i said tank crushing is part of the game but it's exploiting it when you use flank speed just to run over inf becoz they get superbugged

Piat sappers are super cheap and they can fire pretty far but most important they almost never miss, unlike schrecks, i know schrecks are good too but it seems a bit too much for sappers that don't have vet. They can also stealth in cover and then deal triple damage.

[Mysthalin]

As i said tank crushing is part of the game but it's exploiting it when you use flank speed just to run over inf becoz they get superbugged

Bullshit - same as stug sliding, P4 crushing, Panther dancing, etc. Game mechanic, not exploiting it.

Piat sappers are super cheap and they can fire pretty far but most important they almost never miss, unlike schrecks

Bullshit - both have a range of 35. And I challenge you to hit anything at long range, considering the user of what you're trying to hit isn't brain-dead, unconcious or asleep.
Super cheap? I see you haven't even tried playing brits.

They can also stealth in cover and then deal triple damage.

More bullshit, kk.

You clearly don't know the remotest thing of what you're talking about.

[Baine]

Maybe he doesn't know that some unit stats have been changed. I believe PIAT accuracy was reduced once.

[LeoPhone]

the thing hes talking about piats having great accuracy, is that piats pretty much hit anything thats not moving.

schrecks however have major problems hitting at long range anyways. doesnt matter much if its moving or not.

[Hicks359]

PIATs will ONLY be "Perfect shots" (Though you should note there is still a chance of naturally missing) if the tank refuses to move.

Be it from lack of micro on the enemies part, or being buttoned, stunned, stickied, etc, the point is, if the tank isn't moving and PIATs are around, it's dead.

However, the moment a tank moves with some degree of micro, the PIAT has the worst hand held accuracy imaginable. Then you have to account that the frontal penetration of a PIAT against anything bigger than a PIV, isn't as much as you'd think it is.

For a comparison, i'd say PIATs at long range are about as reliable as a Bazooka without Tank Reapers at long range.

Namely, dont bother unless your feeling VERY lucky or the enemy is incredibly busy.

You might want to note as well that PIATs are very unreliable against light vehicles unless they are in your face due to the speed of them. They do sting if they hit though.

Cromwell flank speed is a feature of Cromwells. Removing flank speed will remove the oppurtunity to get the hell out of dodge fast, and remove the CHOICE to use it as a last ditch stab at your enemy.

Remember, using Flank Speed to crush a squad, means you can't bail out anywhere near as fast when the rest of the enemy AT turns up, if it isn't there already.

Oh, did i mention that Cromwells by design are good* against light vehicles and infantry only? Or rather i should say, by looking at how the Cromwell it would seem it's been designed that way for EiRR. Removing Flank Speed would give the Cromwell a swift kick to the balls for this role.

I'd go on about the Hellcat and Priest too, but i have a wall of text as it is.

* = By good, i mean actually win a fight without having to near sacrifice the unit, as you would have to get your Cromwell near destroyed to take down a PIV, *If* you take it down.

[Tymathee]

agreed about the crom. Its original speed is slower than the p4 and sherman, so it needs flank speed.

the thing hes talking about piats having great accuracy, is that piats pretty much hit anything thats not moving.

schrecks however have major problems hitting at long range anyways. doesnt matter much if its moving or not.

well the thing is, if you fire 4 piats, one is going to hit no matter what, and if ou're cclose enough, the spread will hit it, but at long range, even firing at something stationary, the chance of hitting isn't that high. Then you have the rca doc ability that gives 10% acc buff, then you add on lt's with their acc buff it hink 25% and then 20-25% acc with vet and hten you can see why they can hit so often.



---Killer344:Double post.

[CrazyWR]

lol @ tym.  4 piats aren't guaranteed to hit anymore than 16 piats...I've dodged 21 piat shots from puddin's blob before and it wasn't particularly close either...

[Mysthalin]

I loved it when I dodged like 9 out of 10 puddin's PIAT shells, and the 1 that would actually hit would ALWAYS bounce . Panther being microed ftw.

[NightRain]

I love PIATs and Shrecks. Shreck long range snipe is just pure love and PIAT ambush just makes Axis player cry. 2 PIAT squad ambusing a P4. byebye P4 I'll see you in the Scrapyard when my Priest is carried there.

[tankspirit668]

This whole Availability and Cost System is just a joke. It`s all about spamming the most effective and cost efficent unit and get doctrinal buffs for it. Tactical gameplay gets not rewarded in any way. Combined arms my ass. If you need a special company build to win against a spam company build, then there  is something wrong and the fact that it has always been like that in EIR does not make it right.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12593.0

[Draken]

Sorry that I will dissapoint you, but companies in RL were also "spam" companies. Company is just to small foramtion to have "everything a bit", people like to specialise, and that's how it was in RL, ranger company, airborne company, tank company, they were with other companies so whole army was balanced, but in EiR it's just tactical size battles, only way to reduce "spam" (which is nothing wrong imo, until all players spam only 1 unit type) would be creating "template" companies, but just imagine how it would work in practice.

[tankspirit668]

Sorry that I will dissapoint you, but companies in RL were also "spam" companies. Company is just to small foramtion to have "everything a bit", people like to specialise, and that's how it was in RL, ranger company, airborne company, tank company, they were with other companies so whole army was balanced, but in EiR it's just tactical size battles, only way to reduce "spam" (which is nothing wrong imo, until all players spam only 1 unit type) would be creating "template" companies, but just imagine how it would work in practice.

I just read a post were you faced a whole army of vet 3 volks .....  . cost efficent and efficent in current environment , but tactical gameplay is sth else.

Specialization, yes why not, but as far as this specialization is one kind of unit ... no. I know a little about ww2 german armies and it wasn`t really spam, ( common soldiers excluded ).

Template Companies would really suck here.

[Two]

I always wanted 1 player to have all the armour, 1 player with all the main inf and 1 guy with all the support shit.


Any 2 players wana do it with me? :p

[Draken]

It wont work, it's better to micro your mgs + infantry in one place then have to split your support weapons lets say on abby you won't be able to micro all this spread out units on whole map.

[tank130]

Here's my biggest beef with this game.

I build a well balanced company. I never know exactly who I'm going to play with or against, so it's important to have a balanced company. I don't stack or wait until the perfect balance of my buddies show up so I can stomp.
Now if everybody was in the same situation, everybody would need to be prepared for anything.
Now we have guys running around with specialized companies. ( I will call them "Special" players. And not in a honorable way.) In most cases these special players will avoid games where their special builds do not have an advantage. For example, a special player with a DBl KT company will wait for his buddies who have lots of AI to compliment his company. This special player will normally avoid battles until his other special buddies show up.

Today I waited for a game to slowly fill up. Then a special player showed up with his DBL KT company. I left the game and went and watched tv. Why you ask. The game will be a typical Dbl KT boring assed game. Are there counters to a DBL KT company? Of course there are. We could go on for fucking days on how to counter this. But the real question is; is it fun and challenging?
The answer is no. Why the fuck should I build a company for the soul purpose of destroying two tanks. This game is supposed be about strategy and combined arms, not a battle to see if I can destroy two tanks with insane amounts of hit power. Seriously, how much fucking brains does it take to just keep shooting shit at a tank.
The same goes for special players on the allied side. Gimmick spam companys that always result in the same tactics and or counters. Fucking boring. Combined arms take skill and brains to keep it all together and battle your opponents abilities.

Wander why attendance is down? Lets face it. The skilled players in this community are just sick and tired of the same old bullshit.  I am no where near a high level player. I just play for the challenge and the fun. But the fun is disappearing with all the unskilled bullshit companies being built by both sides.

[Mysthalin]

No, the attendance is down for these reasons :

1. It's the end war. Everyone's got maxed out coys and their gimmicks are strong BECAUSE of the maxed out coys. Building new ones takes too long now, and playing with the same old ones gets boring. The war is now what, 4 times longer than it should have been?
2. Work. Yes, it's fucking November. Not only are the 18- playerbase in school now, so they're going to school and doing homework, but a new fiscal year just started or is about to start. There's plenty of shit to deal with at work for most people - I would guess we could name the developers first and foremost who are in this predicament at the moment.
3. Autumn. Autumn is a very... bad time of year for the human body and mental state. There's even a term for it - Autumn Depression. Now, while most of us who play games go online to see some carnage to make it better and lead a good life, there's people who don't do that. Main group of people : girlfriends/wives/children. They all demand attention in what can be referred to as the most trying time of the year.
4. Borderlands. Yeah, it's a fucking awesome game of win. There's been a lot of them awesome other games released lately - brings up a lot of the playerbase taking a break and doing something else for a change. That's where I've been gone to, mainly - playing Borderlands (I mean the time spent on the computer).

It all adds up - new games, work, studies, relationships. Autumn is depressing and awesome at the same time. Awesome for the new games, ofc ;P.

[wildsolus]

you play borderlands on the pc myst? i've got a soldier up to lvl 32

[tankspirit668]

No, the attendance is down for these reasons :

1. It's the end war. Everyone's got maxed out coys and their gimmicks are strong BECAUSE of the maxed out coys. Building new ones takes too long now, and playing with the same old ones gets boring. The war is now what, 4 times longer than it should have been?

You`ve got a point there , the more doctrines abilities yo get the more the spam. The later the war lesser the fun and then it`s more aout units and less about tactics. Reason for this: the whole absence of a cost system and availibilty and costs for doctrine buffs which reduces the stated problems.  You don`t need to talk about certain units or doctrinal buffs, the whole system is flawed a redesign of the doctrines will not fix this.