Allied Grit

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[Mysthalin]

And your buffs die with your men Percent by percent. Another Point for the stacking allied buffs.

Too bad that cohesion also starts giving reduced bonuses as the riflemen die. Your completely axis biased view onto discussion which states : "Allied buff = evil" has been duely noted and is no longer welcome in this thread, as it is no longer adding to the discussion. Your opinion has been aired.

Don`t you think that a combination, of doctrine abiliies buffing certain things up to 50 % is bad for the overall gameplay

What about reading what I wrote upon the group zeal and how it stacks with itself?
How about zeal which, as just one of the buffs, gives 0.18 cooldown? And there's recieved suppression, accuracy and recieved damage buffs, extra regen and even a instantly-break-suppresion buff to come along with that as well?
What about carbines which give a 0.5 cooldown AND a 0.5 reload boost?

[tankspirit668]

Too bad that cohesion also starts giving reduced bonuses as the riflemen die. Your completely axis biased view onto discussion which states : "Allied buff = evil" has been duely noted and is no longer welcome in this thread, as it is no longer adding to the discussion. Your opinion has been aired.

My fault then. You proved I`m wrong.

If im welcomed or not doesn`t matter in discussions, at least not for me. 

[Mysthalin]

Would you honestly claim that a stacking buff that gives 300 percent more health to a kettenkrad is OP? It depends on what is being buffed as well, not just the buff itself.

[tankspirit668]

Would you honestly claim that a stacking buff that gives 300 percent more health to a kettenkrad is OP? It depends on what is being buffed as well, not just the buff itself.

It would say it changes a lot concerning the intended use of a unit, or how you can use a unit and that the overall game experience can get easily degraded by such things.

We all know doctrines are currently  reworked and as you stated it seems that Allied Grid will stay the way it is atm after the rework. Will it still be a T3, or will it be a T2. Will all T3 be generally nerfed ?, aso.  On the other hand you compare it with Group Zeal. So another  question is Will Group Zeal be reworked or will it stay the way it is.

So is a lot of uncertainty regading this things. I didn`t really make my homework regardiing following information about the progress of the doctrine rework, but I would expect , that changes will be made in the near future and that the devs will not commit any more changes to the current doctines.

So overall I agree the examples you mentioned state that the 2 allied buffs are performing together not so  good ompared to a single buff group zeal, which I personally think is OP.

But as I stated doctrine rework is being done and I`m hoping that things will be fixed then. If they are not fixed I will discuss doctrine abilities then, but that is after the change.

[Baine]

Would you honestly claim that a stacking buff that gives 300 percent more health to a kettenkrad is OP?

Yes.

[Mysthalin]

I'd say it's not the Group Zeal which is OP, but it's Allied Grit which is absolutely useless. Would you honestly take Allied Grit over Rocket Artilery? Now, if the offer to chose between rocket arty and group zeal arose, I'm sure you'd at least wonder which one is better to attain.

Cohesion, to my knowledge, is not being taken at all by any players, either - with tank reapers and M1 carbines, it simply does not give the fighting power boost of either TR or Carbines, while giving much higher requirements to the use of the T4. Does it mean that TR and Carbines are OP? No, they're perfectly in line with the T4s of other doctrines, such as German Steel or OBM. It is Cohesion that is in need of a buff.

The doctrine rework is generally only scrapping a few abilities from each tree - it's not scrapping the trees entirely and replacing them with all new abilities. It is simply altering them, and altering the doctrine tree system, while keeping the doctrine buffs the same. Seeing as Allied Grit is to be left in the doctrine trees, I find it appropriate that we request it being buffed as the doctrines are being reworked, so as to save the time of everyone.

Would you honestly claim that a stacking buff that gives 300 percent more health to a kettenkrad is OP?

So what would you do with this OP kettenkrad that has the same health as a halftrack while taking you a T3 and T4 to achieve?

[RikiRude]

I think both need to be looked at.

Group zeal could be toned down in the bonuses it gives, but increase it's radius so you don't have to blob too much, or so that you can at least still get the bonus while using a flanking maneuver as the units get closer to each other, such as having 2 squads come in from different angles around a building or something to that nature.

allied grit on the other hand like stated needs to be carefully balanced because it has a T4 that can stack pretty well with it.


But at the end of the day we are simply talking about PGs and Riflemen, cannon fodder.

[BradAnderson]

Not if u happen to be running a carbine company, your riflemen are killing machines.

[Mysthalin]

If you're running carbines, you're not running cohesion, so it's OK.

As I have illustrated, Group Zeal alone is of the same caliber as Cohesion AND Allied grit COMBINED.

[Killer344]

No, it isn't. It's UP, that's true, but you don't have to blob all your troops to make it work.

[Mysthalin]

You can reap full benefits from it without blobbing - 2/3 squads being together is pretty common, and it works with anything above 1 man as well. It's per man based, not per squad.

[Sharpshooter824]

Uhh i was talking about terror zeal smokaz..