Cost System should be reworked

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Baine]

I'm studying math. It fails hard

[MonthlyMayhem]

One question..why would you want to have a counterweight for doctrain buffs.. They're suppose to buff your army..

[tankspirit668]

One question..why would you want to have a counterweight for doctrain buffs.. They're suppose to buff your army..

Because they make units more effective and more cost effective and pps are no cunterweight to that. It should be  NO no brainer to max these units out , maybe til lyp pay some pps. PPs don`t work there. Units are more important than strategy atm here. And no end in sight.
EIR is and will be a history of spam and abuse if this is not fixed. Hardcaps just suck, PPs don`t work. Units can be buffed no Problem, the problem is the quantities you get / or you want to get then then. This is the reason why I did come up with the price increase after each purchase of a unit type. Everybody is just caring about his own company builds and his own units. A balance of the whole , a system balancing itself  will not be created by that kind of discussion and that makes me sick. I lve EIR, but some people already say, and they are right IMHO, EIR is like Warcraft3 from the gamestyle perspective and I see It is heading that way. You can just have one company and to tweak your company every time according to the type of spam your facing just sucks and will do this mod no good. Instead the pricing should balance that out somehow. Spamming should be possible should be doable, but be not so cost effective like it is atm. In other words the battle of attrition should be fought by spammes and not by the spam "victim".

No cost multipliers. Paying PP is good enough. If people spam one unit, it'll have a weakness. Every company will pretty much look the same because they're going be going cost effective.. The availability system is fine how it is. People that loose say like... a ranger squad and their infantry say is at like -26, they're going to have to pay around 4 PP to replace that squad, and most games only give 8-10 PP.

That would not be the case, because then every company would look quite similar at the moment, because there are "things" ( Doctrine Choices  + Units ) too, that are defenetly more cost effective than other  "things". PPs don`t cut it like I said several times now as a counterweight.

[puddin]

tank do you notice a trend... Not one person supprts your arguments, Evgeryone is arguing against it.

I am not trying to be mean, Just stating the obvious, If the community got behind it would be something to consider, but your arguing against the community.... Not just a few ppl.

[tankspirit668]

tank do you notice a trend... Not one person supprts your arguments, Evgeryone is arguing against it.

I am not trying to be mean, Just stating the obvious, If the community got behind it would be something to consider, but your arguing against the community.... Not just a few ppl.

You are probably right, most do. But the overall criticism is overall not very well crafted, but I guess it`s a serious case of "I want my company build" and "everything is always fine like it is - really every time" instead of reason and a real desire to establish a cost and availiability system, reflecting more a ww2 scenario, rewarding variety of units and combined arms and last but not least make it possible to bring balance.

It just makes me sad, not for my company build, but for tis mod overall.  

[Computer991]

tank do you notice a trend... Not one person supprts your arguments, Evgeryone is arguing against it.

I am not trying to be mean, Just stating the obvious, If the community got behind it would be something to consider, but your arguing against the community.... Not just a few ppl.

You are probably right, most do. But I guess it`s a serious case of "I want my company build" and "everything is always fine like it is " instead of reason and a real desire to establish a cost and availiability system, reflecting more a ww2 scenario, rewarding variety of units and combined arms and last but not least make it possible to bring balance.

It just makes me sad, not for my company build, but for tis mod overall. 

i agree with you,but i dun wanna get flamed!

[lionel23]

The arguments have been well-crafted and stated many times by many, many people; yet you time and again dismiss them as if they weren't said.

Your idea, while interesting, is convoluted and confusing with the math, and you're advocating price adjustments but not price adjustments.  Use the current system of balancing by a per unit basis otherwise you're nerfing all uses of all units, that's the simpliest and easiest fix, not a total rewrite of the mod.  What next, laser guns on KCH's and nukes on Pioneers next (and shut up Computer, I know you want friggin' lasers on their heads too!) 

[Computer991]

(and shut up Computer, I know you want friggin' lasers on their heads too!) 

DRATSS!!!!
Time to derail the thread out of rage.

[tankspirit668]

The arguments have been well-crafted and stated many times by many, many people; yet you time and again dismiss them as if they weren't said.
.....  What next, laser guns on KCH's and nukes on Pioneers next (and shut up Computer, I know you want friggin' lasers on their heads too!) 

To be honest I don`t see any arguments or real discussion regarding certain aspects, or when I replied to certain things, that were stated, there was never a response from the corresponding people. What I want to mention nobody is really discussing what this change would do on the whole battle scenario, especially  the major change that spammers would probably have to fight the battle of attrition. which lies at the moment on the side of the spammer`s victim.
That is a major change of the aspect how this game works as a whole and would probably be way more interesting. Nor did I see any suggestions for improvement for the current system what will deal with these issues I mentioned, ìt`s just stated that everything is fine as it is regarding dealing with spam, because in game mechanics of COH deal with it.
If Smokaz, Elite Gren, Killer and I Play For Keeps  state these comments, I think it`s right from their perspective, but for the average EIR Gamer it`s not. L2P is not the answer. Adjustements should be  done already at the company building screen. The situation  is a not satisfying at the moment  and discussions about people won`t be able to do their current company builds isn`t helping either. Don't count your chickens before they are hatched, but some people are just trying to imply numbers here and there without any reason.

So im repeating myself over and over again, trying to bring some light in some aspects, mayb I`m the maniac street preacher or something, I don`t know, but what I know is that I`m not biased towards certain company builds, or factions. I want a balanced mod, what is fun to play. So here comes  the repetition:

The current system has some fundamental flaws:

• People spam units that are most cost efficient / efficient. If you  increase costs for UNIT A, ok then it`s UNIT B what will be spammed then, because it the most cost efficient unit then.   So in the end it will lead to that all unit which are most cost effective for their bang get a price increase. This is a fundamental problem of the system.
• The current availibility system does not really work that well. EIR(R) has a long history of spam now and we already have the second availibility system rework in place. But the main reason of implementing an availibility system is still not implemented, to reward people for variety in their company builds.
• The Doctrine Abilities and buffs make some units more efficient, so spamming it is encouraged without enough counterweight implemented in the system.
• And one other thing is High Level Accounts don`t need PP so much , so spamming really Units beyond the Availibility Pool is not really punished here at all. Especially with UNIT C, which dies rarely it is a valid point. So there is an imbalance, Level 8 Players can spam more and more cost efficent units ( because of doctrine buffs ) more easy than low level accounts , what is not necessary.  High Level Players already enjoy Doctrine Ablities, UNits and more ressources.
• The current system creates artificial interlayer called  unit pools, which is way too general to encourage more variety in company builds. I consider this as an corset unnecessary and inconvenient.

• Tactical Gameplay gets more and more into the background, because of this situation.  
• Measures to fight spam don`t cut it - if most efficent / cost efficent unit is increased in pricing, then the most efficent / price efficient unit will be just another type.
• I think in game mechanics in coh don`t deal really very well with the spam problem for the average EIR Player just by saying if it would work so well, why is  there so much spam ?  

The new system would take care of that - I`m mentioning some points here:

• Most Cost effective Units ( with Doctrine Buffs ) can`t be maxed out in this large numbers, because units in larger quantity getting more expensive. Grade can vary from unit to unit, representing scarcity.
• Tactical Gameplay is encouraged and playing with a units mix is encouraged.  Tactics should more count than now, now it`s somehow favouring  units.
• A Counterweight to the increased cost effectiveness of doctrinal buffed units is established.
• The gap  between High Level Players, who  can afford to purchase   cost efficent units in greater numbers is narrowed.
• The proposed system would be more flexible, more flexible  company builds allowed, spamming units comes with a price though, as there would be no more unit pools.  
• The proposed  Avalability System would be easier to understand. Availibility is represented by price and only price. Price Increase cana be represented in Perccent.  

[Demon767]

new doctrine's will fix this.

[tankspirit668]

new doctrine's will fix this.

No New Doctrine System will fix any issues with the current availability System and Pricing Scheme. Why do you think it will fix something ?

[Akranadas]

Because you have to pay to unlock unique doctrine units

[EliteGren]

And right now you dont?

[tankspirit668]

Because you have to pay to unlock unique doctrine units

Pay what ? PPs or Manpower or Fuel or Ammo ? And even if, what will it change about the Cost and Availibility System and its broken design favouring spamming most cost effective / effective units ?

[Smokaz]

Posting this in its own thread, this one is too is too long and cluttered already 

[tankspirit668]

The result of these flat out buffs not having a additional cost associated like them is what results in teh spam. Why pick 4 rifles that work as six, when you can pick twenty rifles that work as thirty for no cost difference?

This is a different interpretation of tankspirits problem, if you havent realized it yet. I think the source of the problem is the doctrine buffs and not the units themselves.

It`s a part of it yes. The Doctrine system, combined with the current availibilty and pricing  system just results in more effective spam. There is no real counterweight to doctrine buffs in the pricing and availibity system at the moment at all, yes. But there is not an effective counterweight against spam either. 

But the problem is not only combined with the Doctrines, as you could see in VEIR or currenty in OMG, the spam is there and was there.
There should be a representation, that some units get scarce or are scarce. The representation is the price for example, and if units are really scarce, you have to pay PPs. I have stated many times already why I think paying PPs just for the purchase of the unit does not balance things out.

So this is not a thread about overpowered Units, underred Factions, etc., it`s about the broken situation of the current cost and availibility system. And yes, the current Implementation of the Doctrine System with its most cost efficient passive buffs is making the situation worse, like Smokaz stated, but that`s only a part of the problem as I see it.

[Smokaz]

Changing all passive % buffs that do not cost SP to upgrades that cost company resources would go a long way to mend the problem, dont you think?

You do see the difference between the Carabine player and the Explosive Rounds/Armor Piercing rounds player, right?

[tankspirit668]

Changing all passive % buffs that do not cost SP to upgrades that cost company resources would go a long way to mend the problem, dont you think?

You do see the difference between the Carabine player and the Explosive Rounds/Armor Piercing rounds player, right?

I think it would not  address the whole problem, but it would be a step in the right direction.

[Mysthalin]

So there has been not a single post that counters yours?
All of your posts are The Word Of The Almighty That Can Not Be Negated?

Aparently, they are.

Because you failed to even respond to my question about needing at least A-Level maths before playing the mod.

[Demon767]

Tankspirit you obviously havent seen the new doctrine rework

All of this availability, Doctrine specific buffs= spam units will be nullified with the implementation of the doctrine rework, so dont get your panties in a knot and calm down it will all be soughted


/thread